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I was at a pip tribunal but failed miserably

weemarydollweemarydoll Member Posts: 4 Listener
edited November 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
I was at a pip tribunal but failed miserably.i only received 4 points so what's happens now can reapply for pip or do I have to wait any help  please 

Replies

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello weemarydoll and welcome

    Was this a review or a change from DLA ?
    As you have no award in payment you can re-apply straight away, there is no waiting time

    It is important to understand understand the points system, descriptors and the criteria for an award. A good place to start is the self test on the B&W site

    http://www.mybenefitsandwork.co.uk/pip/indexxx.php

    There is also a lot of info on this site. Please have a look around and come back with any questions

    CR

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • weemarydollweemarydoll Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Thanks so much for info 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @weemarydoll

    You can ask the tribunal for a statement of reasons (SOR) for their decision.  There is a remote chance, but only remote, that the judge made an error of law in which case you could appeal to an upper tribunal.  You would need expert advice to decide if the SOR indicated an error of law, for example from CAB or similar organisation.  Or you could ask a benefits expert in Ask a benefits advisor category in the Scope online community.
  • steve51steve51 Member Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @weemarydoll

    A very very big welcome to you this afternoon !!!!

    Here's some info from our website:

    https://www.scope.org.uk/support/disabled-people/benefits/pip

    Please please let me know if there's anymore help/support ??????

    Thank's.


  • weemarydollweemarydoll Member Posts: 4 Listener
    steve51 said:
    Hi @weemarydoll

    A very very big welcome to you this afternoon !!!!

    Here's some info from our website:

    https://www.scope.org.uk/support/disabled-people/benefits/pip

    Please please let me know if there's anymore help/support ??????

    Thank's.



  • weemarydollweemarydoll Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Thank you so much for info I will keep you posted of any changes or any more help I might need.i also want to know if I start a fresh claim for pip do i have to wait for a period of time before i can reapply 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,915 Disability Gamechanger

    Excellent advice to look at the Benefits and Work information. The key thing with PIP is to look at regs 4 and 7. The 50% rule and the rule about not being able to do something if you can't do it reliably, safely, repeatedly or in a reasonable time.

    However, it is not true to say that there is a remote chance of a first tier tribunal (FTT) getting the law wrong. I have been in welfare rights advice for 31 years and in all that time I have only come across one case where the tribunal decision was absolutely watertight.

    What you actually need to do is to request a statement of reasons (a detailed version of the summary you had on the day) and the record of proceedings (the judges usually handwritten notes) within one month of your summary decision and then get independent advice to identify errors of law and pursue the matter to the upper tribunal. The UT can decide there was no error of law; make a decision to replace that of the FTT (unlikely in most cases); agree there was an error but still uphold the original FTT decision, or, return the matter to a new FTT for a complete re-hearing.

    Whilst it is always tempting to abandon an appeal and just go for a new claim you need to remember that unless you do things completely differently the new claim may also fail and you may end up pursuing the same process of mandatory reconsideration and appeal anyway.

    If you go to UT; get it sent back to FTT and then win your award will be from your original date of claim. Assuming you do have an entitlement that's an awful lot of money to throw away if you abandon the appeal at this stage.

    I would not just look at B&W. I would get urgent independent advice about applying for leave to appeal to a UT and about whether you are actually likely to be entitled to PIP. That advice ought to inform what you do next, not this forum.




  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq

    Benefits experts in Ask a benefits advisor category on Scope have stated that it is rare for a first tier tribunal judge to make an error of law.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,915 Disability Gamechanger
    Without wishing to create an off topic diversion I am happy to dispute that from professional experience. As I posted earlier I have been doing this for 31 years (in both voluntary and statutory settings) and there is a consensus view among colleagues that it's really not hard to find one of the five errors of law. That gets you leave to appeal to UT. That does not necessarily mean you'll get the desired outcome but things like failure to make sufficient findings of fact; perversity or breach of natural justice are not exactly uncommon occurrences.  
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    The biggest problem with challenging a FTT is lack of access to advisors that understand the law at an affordable price.
    For most people in our situations it is far less stressful and more practical, to take what they have learned and re apply

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,915 Disability Gamechanger
    I do agree that access to advice has been decimated in recent years. However...

    You should not need to pay at all. Check out your local Citizens Advice or your local aurhority welfare rights service before you pay anyone. 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Most CAB's are overwhelmed and often cannot see people within the time frames set by DWP.
    Many people turn to on line forums for advice which in some cases is less than helpful.
    Even here we lack specialist help and knowledge, like yours, for the majority of the time

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • kernowno1kernowno1 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    I had  my  dla stopped  on12/12/2016 after receiving  it for about  15 years went  to my local  cab i put in  a application  for pip  i got 0 points,  went  for a face  application  again  got 0 points  .last week  had  a appeal  tribunal  at my local  magistrates  court  (never  been  in  a court  before) had  someone  from  a local  charity  for  moral  support  great  to  have  someone  to sit next  to me  but all so to my right  someone  from  the  works and  pensions  after about  40 minutes  he was asked  to  speak within  a few  minutes  he offered  8 points  for  living  allowance  we were  all asked  go outside  few minutes  later  i ws awarded 10 points for standard  living  and 12 points mobility  for 4 years  including  1 year  backdated i have  courts  documents  nothing  yet  from  works and pensions i was really  scared  of  going. 

  • lee07lee07 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    OK MY PIP WAS STOPPED IN APRIL CAPITA SENT ME A LETTER REASONS FOR FAILING I DROVE TO ASSESSMENT WAS DRESSED APPROPRIATLYfOR THE WEATHER AND DIDNT LOOK MALNOURISHED ,,, I DONT HAVE A CAR I WORE A PAIR OF TRACKIES AND HOODY SO MY DAILY LIVING HIGH RATE AND SEVERE DISABILITY PREMIUM WHERE STOPPED IN APRIL ASKED FOR RECONSIDER DECLINED PIP TRIBUNAL NOW APPLIED FOR LETTER RECIEVED SAYING THEY GRANTED APPEAL AND DATE WILL BE SET FOR THE APPEAL I HAVE MENTAL HEALTH CRISES TEAM GP AND LOCAL COUNCIL WELFARE RIGHTS ALL WORKING ON MY BEHALF AND WILL HAVE PEOPLE AT THE APPEAL TO REPRESENT ME  NO IDEA HOW LONG THIS WILL TTAKE OR WHAT TO EXPECT  ITS HAVING A MASSIVE IMPACKT ON MY MENTAL HEALTH ADDING YET MORE STRESS AND ANXIETY


    WRITTEN BY TOBY LEES MATE FOR HIM 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,915 Disability Gamechanger
    Could your friend turn capitals off? It’s perceived as shouting. 

    You have suppprt and a representative so there’s no need to ask a question on a forum. Your representative will be able to answer all your questions.
  • lee07lee07 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    update ,,,,dwp contacted via phone advising that after recieving medical evidance there is now no need to continue to tribunal awarded daily living enhanced rate mobility high rate and was this ok ... of course that was obvious ok also advised all will be back dated to april 2018 when they stopped daily living ,,,they awarded mobility it wasnt applied for somewhat confusing

    megga sorry about caps
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Most CAB's are overwhelmed and often cannot see people within the time frames set by DWP.
    Many people turn to on line forums for advice which in some cases is less than helpful.
    Even here we lack specialist help and knowledge, like yours, for the majority of the time

    CR
    I agree. Most people will give up after a FTT hearing because of the lack of good resources and available support. Yes it would seem that the easier option is to start a new claim and learn by the mistakes of the previous one. Grief, I had to give up after the MR because of those reasons.
  • lee07lee07 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    council welfare rights trump cab worth calling
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    lee07 said:
    council welfare rights trump cab worth calling
    Those departments in some council areas have been closed down due to the costs involved being paid for by the local council tax payers who in the main have never needed their services. In my council there was a heated debate with a lot of public opinion being voiced. It was accepted that those who paid for the service were most unlikely to never want to use it.
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