PIP, DLA and AA
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Shopping trolleys and PIP?

shazz53shazz53 Member Posts: 8 Listener
edited December 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
I have been reading about the shopping trolly thing and I find this very confusing for someone like myself. I have had a pip interview recently and await the outcome but have asked for the report from the assessor so hopefully, i can read what has been said. To me, if you are struggling to walk then I would rather use a trolly than hold a basket and struggle with a stick or bend down getting stuff which I certainly can't do that. So i do hope they change this silly rule as I would think many people are appealing about it and winning,

Replies

  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,731 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @shazz53 can you explain a bit more about the shopping trolley thing?
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • shazz53shazz53 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Well apparently if u use a shopping trolly it's not an aid and I think if anyone who can't walk properly needs to use one of there are no disabled buggies available .I read someone got knocked down on mobility points because she used a shopping trolly

  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @shazz53 The only rule I heard about is that a shopping trolley is not classed as an aid if you do use one even if you have to for support because able bodied people use them as well. So why are people loosing mobility for using one? It may be that using a trolley shows they can walk the necessary distance round a supermarket or that by using a trolley they can't use any other sort of walking aid?
  • shazz53shazz53 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    I have people with me when I go shopping due to short of breath and cysts in hips so if I use a trolly they walk with me as I can't reach down and pick stuff up but I see many people using them with sticks to 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @shazz53

    I'm not sure if you are referring to the wire supermarket trolleys or the shopping trolleys that are like large shopping bags on wheels.

    Two members have posted, one who used a shopping trolley (i.e. bag on wheels) and the other a walker, that they both lost points because, whereas they couldn't walk farther than 50m without using a trolley/walker, they could walk farther than 50m using a trolley/walker.

  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    As I understand it, PIP reduced the mobility walking distance from 50 metres to 20 metres. Not sure though.

    I think I understand why this comes into a PIP evaluation because, in theory, someone who can walk around a supermarket with only a basket or trolley would be classed as fairly mobile and consequently assessed lower than someone who cannot.

    I have to use a scooter and perch a basket on it to get anything much. There is one small supermarket near where I live that I cannot do this for and sometimes, if I am desperate, I have to walk round with a basket but I could never negotiate it with a trolley. I must admit though to find it infuriating when I see people using disability spaces then walking round supermarkets, effectively walking up to half a mile and then getting upset with me if I mention it.

    It is an emotive and upsetting subject but it is logical to compare difficulties between disabled people, rating them according to their capabilities. I do not like to see people, who are a least a little mobile, expecting to get the full disability score when there are people, for example late stage MS sufferers, who can do almost nothing for themselves.

    I am sure this view will not be popular and I know life isn't fair but someone has to make distinctions at some point. Rightly or wrongly at least some parts of the PIP assessment try to do that. If only the whole thing was done properly by trained and experienced people then it might have worked once the bugs had been removed.

    I expect now to be vilified for having such an opinion.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • shazz53shazz53 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    When someone like me and others like me that suffer with emphasemia,COPD, asthma then you maybe can understand its hard to even push a wire shopping trolly with my breathing and especially nearing the stage of oxygen. keep stopping all the time because i cant get my breath maybe they would take that one into consideration with this condition with no cure with a shopping trolly  
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    The criteria are:

    Able to walk (before you need to stop and rest):

    20m aided or unaided = 12 points (enhanced PIP)

    50m aided = 10 points (standard)

    50m unaided = 8 points (standard)

    I don't know if DWP have a view on wire supermarket trolleys.  You could ask in Ask a benefits advisor category.
  • shazz53shazz53 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    well thats 12 points then 

  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    edited December 2017
    @Topkitten, I'm not going to vilify you and I do know where you're coming from but there are many different types of disability and judging people just from what you see them do in the supermarket is wrong. I know a young man who has a life threatening very rare condition where parts of his body swell up with no notice. He was recently in intensive care with a throat swelling. ATM his feet are twice the size they should be. He also has Bipolar. He has higher rate mobility but if you saw him on a good day you would think there was nothing wrong with him. I have physical problems with my legs that affect my mobility but also have Complex PTSD from traumas I've been through that were so horrific you could never imagine. Supermarkets are one of the worst places for me. But you can't get inside my head to hear the inner battle that's going on. So what I'm saying is assumptions about others shouldn't be made without knowing the whole story. However if they park in disabled without a blue badge and jump out the car, dash round and jump back in like I saw a family do recently then it's up to the supermarket to regularly check their spaces and stop this happening.   
  • shazz53shazz53 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    I can understand where you are coming from. I don't drive but I hate to see these people sitting is disabled spaces or using them because there is nowhere else. I too also think or should I say no that someone has got to keep a check on these parking spaces and dish out heavier fines to stop this going on as it is not fair. 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    The mobility component will always attract different opinions.
    For people without mobility problems a Blue Badge just looks like a free pass to park any where they want, and who wouldn't want a get out of jail free card ?

    For those of us that do have mobility  problems ,to a greater or lesser extent, it can be a lifeline.

    Most people don't understand the aspects of safely, reliability and repeatedly and just because on a good day I can walk to the trolley park 10 m away does not mean that I can skip all the way round a supermarket.

    Without the use of a mini trolley to hold my oxygen I would never get to the first isle. I pretend to stop and look at all sorts of things on the shelves, not because I want them but because I need to stop and rest. Trips to the supermarket are a real struggle just to pick up a few essentials and doing a full weeks shop is a thing of the past. I make a list of the things that I need so I have a goal to complete, Why oh why do supermarkets have to move things around ?. There is no time to peruse the shelves for special offers or new products, the clock has started and I have have only a short time in which to complete my mission before complete exhaution takes over.

    Fortunately I am known to the porters in my supermarket and one of them will always assist when I do get into trouble, lifting my small bag into my car for me.

    On the subject of cars, what has my choice of car got to do with how far I can
    walk ? Is it wrong for a disabled person to drive a convertable car ? you would think so from the looks and comments I get when parking. When parking attendants are on duty I am often challenged when in a blue bay. They have try to fine me on occasion when I have had to park in a non BB and straddled the line just so I can open the door to get out. I have always challenged this and won citing the non BB users in the dedicated bays

    I was glad to see that in Norfolk they are now taking BB misuse seriously and have employed a BB warden to keep an eye on things  I hope other councils will follow thier lead

    OOps sorry for the rant my key board and meds don't mix well at times

    CR



    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Annabelle26Annabelle26 Member Posts: 103 Pioneering
    When I go to the supermarket I have to use a shopping trolley to take my groceries home as I have neck problems so cannot carry heavy items.  When I get to the supermarket I use one of their trolleys to put everything in as it is easier that trying to carry a basket & stick.  I use the supermarket trolley as a sort of walking aid but I still have to stop regularly to rest as I go round.
  • MarkmywordsMarkmywords Member Posts: 421 Pioneering
    This certainly isn't the official line.

    The assessment guidelines are here.
    The mobility descriptors are here.

    The words "shopping trolley" do not appear, nor would one be accepted as an aid or appliance.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    A shopping trolley isn't safe to use as a mobility aid as it has 4 wheels. It can move from under your control if you put pressure on it. That doesn't mean they don't have their uses or cannot be used by some with mobility difficulties. However, because of their unsuitability as an aid it is easy to see why people with no understanding would class them as proving a lack of disability.

    To the point regarding 'good days'..... I have yet to see someone who has a serious mobility issue walk normally and/or quickly or carry a stick to tap on the ground as they walk.. People with mobility issues, even on good days, favour whatever issue they have out of habit, because they never know when that brief respite will disappear. If they limp they will always do so, walk slowly always, put pressure on an aid always. However, whatever they do do, they will ALWAYS move carefully. It is the first law of disability that we learn to look out for whatever problems we have AT ALL TIMES. We don't turn and change direction quickly, rush from place to place, lift and chuck things about in a hurry. We don't do any of this because whatever we use or do is absolutely NECESSARY most of the time.

    Regarding parking..... I have had it pointed out that blind people are disabled too. Ofc they are but then they do not rush about or do the multitude of unthinking things that healthy people do. I have no problem if someone looks disabled and use a BB space. Another thing someone pointed out elsewhere is when a carer with a disabled person goes into the shop alone. In this instance I do have an issue with it. The carer will be healthy and needs no special treatment. If the disabled person does go in then ofc a BB space is acceptable.

    Not all mobility disabilities are equal. I just find it upsetting when even a disabled person uses a BB space because they can and not only when they need to. There are times, even with my short walking distance, I do not NEED to use a BB space and on those occasions I don't. There are always fewer than needed and if I can leave one for someone who has no choice but to use one, then I will. Actually, considering the poor placement of some BB spaces it is sometimes easier and less aggravating not to use one.

    There are a lot of posts on this site relating to healthy people not understanding disability. Likewise there a lot of disabled people who take advantage of the few assistances when they do not need to. Are they any better?

    Overall, and going back to the original point, everyone including the disabled should not assume that because they are disabled they are entitled to the maximum help and maximum benefits simply because they are disabled. There are differing levels of any disability, they will vary over time and from day to day but someone somewhere has to decide how to differentiate.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
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