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Minister fails to back measures to protect claimants from dishonest assessors

GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger

The minister for disabled people has refused to approve two key recommendations made by the independent reviewer of its new disability benefit, which would have made it easier for claimants to protect themselves against dishonest assessment reports.

Among the recommendations made for improvements to personal independence payment (PIP), Paul Gray said earlier this year that all assessments should be recorded, although claimants should be able to opt out if they wanted to.

He also said that all PIP claimants should be given a copy of their assessment report when receiving the letter from DWP telling them if their claim has been successful.

But despite telling parliament that she had accepted all Gray’s recommendations, Sarah Newton, the minister for disabled people, has failed to accept either of these suggestions.

Source: https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/minister-fails-to-back-measures-to-protect-claimants-from-dishonest-assessors/

As an individual I stood alone.
As a member of a group I did things.
As part of a community I helped to create change!

Replies

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Geoark Thank you for pointing this out.  I have just read the disability news on line.  Thank you.  It seems that we as community are going to be like second class citizens.  I have worked in Government offices and the attitude of ministers is all evident to see.  My experiences of meeting fellow colleagues in London and the way Government works.  Yes Minister and the like all true.  I recall meeting one the only time my local MP.  I was part of a group visiting with a disabled charity.   The attitude and lack of moral support was all laid out.  I have had similar experiences when the minister for the Government office would arrive.  A lot of us disabled we never included in the meet and greet.  I am not surprised.  I do now feel that all the benefits PIP and ESA plus the debacle of the assessments is going to be I am afraid going to be tougher.  It scares me and I am very much afraid and worried for our community.  What can we as a community do now?  I will support anybody who comes up with an answer.  All the time I read stories of the damage and untold gut wrenching harm this Government are doing to our community.
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  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @thespiceman my biggest fear is that they will make a small change to the appeal process which will devestate more lives, but fullfill their goal of reducing the welfare bill. It can  be done simply by changing the appeal process to paper only.

    We had the chance to change things but chose to vote in Conservatives, all  be it with a small majority. While I am  not a big fan of Labour either, at least they are genuine in their desire for a fairer Britain.

    But I agree with you I am scared as to how much further things will go, and not just for our community.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2018
    Hello @Geoark How are you?  Thank you for replying.  I agree with what you say.  My issues with all these assessments is what is the Government going to do for those who do fail and can not work.  I have seen the results I am one.  Numerous times told yes fit to work.  I found myself trapped in a training company well more than one.  Vicious cycle ensued no employer wants you too old, too disabled, too old qualifications, too many other factors.  Round and round we go for years.  Even training company did not want to be bothered.  Sign on passed from pillar to post.  Still hurting, still smarting.  Last training company asked this. Question what do I do now?  Answered zero did not want to say anything to me.  Then found out they have so many clients like me that they are doing appeals for the clients.  Because they do not know how to support and give disabled people like myself any employment opportunities.  This is because no employer has the patience and tolerance to deal with people like myself.  Also all of us types were herded into numerous courses on wellbeing and other required in there eyes work ready courses.  I found this out on the company website that we all do these courses because it is a fee paying exercise.  The government pays for training.  I ended up doing a months worth of courses.  I can now see why.  It is all about the money.  In the end I am not a fan of all policies of all Governments whether Labour or Tory on disabled issues.  I am fully aware of what Labours plans are and when and how is that going to be any different.  As one of my support workers said to me.  Well you can have a rest for now and forget about what has happened.  This after the last assessment where I was told unfit to work.  I replied for how long though?  In my mind will come back again.  I am only too aware.  I am glad on ESA support group for now.  My worry is that I will be reassessed again.  Great to talk to you and hope to speak to you soon
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  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @thespiceman

    I am doing fine thank you, hope your coping with the festive season.

    To be honest the way the training system was set up was a sham. A lot of small companies and charities who were working with disabled people were not allowed to bid. But the larger companies were supposed to set up partnerships with these smaller companies to deal with more 'challenging' clients. In practice very few, if any, had these clients passed onto them.

    Either they set up new partnerships or stopped this aspect of their work. I know many social housing providers have set up their own training courses for residents because of how bad these big companies are.

    Both myself and my wife have been put on these so called training courses just to be forgotten. I know I went back to the job centre to say that after the introduction I had not heard from them. They insisted they had never seen me, even though I had their induction pack and attended the date given. In one case where they did remember my wife she was seen twice in a year, and on the first occassion she was told they would update her cv, but never did.  I have spoken to people who have been sent on the same course three or four times without any real benefit. 

    With regards to Labour at least disabled people were not so marginalised. Yes they had recognised that the old system was not working to the benefit of many people and were responsible for introducing ESA, but I do believe that their approach would have been more compassionate and fairer. I don't think they would have appointed a disability minister to ensure that the disabled would continue to suffer the amount of injustice we are continually put through with ministers justifying the unjustifiable.


    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • NystagmiteNystagmite Member Posts: 609 Pioneering
    Those recommendations are reasonable and would actually save the government some money along the way. Had anyone thought about that?
  • tommtomm Member Posts: 231 Pioneering
    edited December 2017
  • tommtomm Member Posts: 231 Pioneering
    I agree with most of what you say, but cannot agree with this part
    We had the chance to change things but chose to vote in Conservatives, all  be it with a small majority. While I am  not a big fan of Labour either, at least they are genuine in their desire for a fairer Britain.
    You like most seem to have forgotten which party  started this war of persecutuon on britains sick & disabled ,it was NEW labour under Brown, but no doubt planned by B-lair
    As for the latest encarnation that is  labour  being any better, i would seriously doubt it, they have several racists on their payroll, (Anti-Whitte & indigenious)
    One who cannot even add up or subtract properly

    They would bankcrupt the country with their ill thought out agenda's and as for them honouring  things that they have promissed,lol they move the goalposts quite frequently,  ie before the last GE they where pro brexit, they promissed students thing that they could not deliver (just to get votes)
    All LIB/LAB/CON/gereen are no better than a coalition. None will tackle the elephant in the room, and they wont even talk about dealing with it, instead they will reform benefits  because thats easier for them 

    But the facts are  the more the population increases  with those who are  claiming benefits accessing free health care, education social housing, the more they will cut back on benefits, because NONE will raise TAXES
     and we are overcrowded,

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Geoark Thank you for replying.  Yes I see the much clearer picture now.  Which is good.  These training courses over Christmas good paperwork clear out.  The shredder in operation all I have done courses and the so called promises to get me into work.  Shredded the lot.  Even so an upsetting afternoon because all the missed opportunities.  Funny thing phone rang my landline and I never have many people ring on that.  Who know the number, guess what training company how am I doing?  How can they help?  Well as this got my goat as they say.  I have left about September and am on ESA in the support group.  Then the spiel started about how can we help you get into work ?.  I launched into a spiel of my own and what should be happening.  Government policies and how they are non effective.  By the way the caller sounded about twelve.  She trying to ring off me saying my stuff and she ended the call.  Got nothing since but how can I cope  with this in the future.  I read a lot on the political stuff the Governments of today and yesterday have done.  It is absolutely total sham and every body knows it.  Missed opportunities.  The day for a World Disabled Day was missed by this Government.  According to what I have read Labour has a plan for us all but when it emerge it be the same as the others.  Hope you OK and really for the New Year and the hurdles ahead.  Speak to you soon.
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  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Nystagmite How are you ?  Yes I suppose the recommendations would save money.  In answer to you question Governments are not about saving money.  Look at the amount bureaucratic wastage in Government.  Reading recent reports on the benefit systems.  It is about how much is actually spent on these reports and number of advisors that paid to look into Government policies.  I am afraid this recent report if you are not aware.  Government has underpaid the benefit system by £500 million are estimates.  l am sorry but we will never see that money.  Although the Government has tried to cover this up.  I am fully aware of certain views and opinions about how the Government runs the benefit system and its pit falls.  The bigger picture is the whole welfare system and beyond.  I am a rabbit caught in the headlights because no matter who comes into office.  No one is stepping up to the plate and accepting there are problems ahead.  I am very much scared for myself and our community.  Nice to talk to you and take care.
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  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2018
    Hello @tomm Pleased to meet you.  I agree with what you have written.  The big picture what do we do as a community.  We all stand together and support each other.  Who is looking after us.  I never forget once some minister told a press conference about these changes will get to the people who needed it the most.  Well as you say who ever comes in nothing is working.  What is the answer.  Have been scouring the media for positive stories the Government has done to help our community.  All I have seen is cutting back and making us all ashamed to be the way we all are and live our lives.  I am scared for the future.  I can not see how the benefits system is to be valued and respected if it is costing the Government too much.  The help getting to those who need it the most.  Those who do miss out a fairer system.  I have no solutions.  Nice to talk to you hope to speak to you soon
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  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    @tomm Sorry to disapoint you, but no I have not forgotten who it was who started this process. But rather jumping to conclusions do you remember why it was started?

    I do, in 2005 I gave up work because of severe back pain. I signed on and was told by the job centre to speak to my doctor about being referred to incapacity benefit. When I spoke to my doctor she was happy to do so, but told me I would not work again. No diagnosis as to the cause and therefor no long term prognosis. We just dumped people on the scrapheap and forgot about them.

    I can also tell you when the system became much more draconian, 2011.

    As I have said I am no great fan of Labour. The fact remains that the disabled did better during the last period of Labour than the previous and subsequent Conservative governments.

    On the bright side the good news is since the last GE the trend has changed with more people leaving than entering.  Good old English jobs for English people and all that. I am sure with a little more encouragement we could persuade more to leave. 

    Only it seems that we don't want those jobs, with employers unable to find suitable employees to fill in the gaps. With an aging population and low birth rate we will once again be in decline with an unsupportable population, of course we have the luxury of dumping people on the disability scrapheap and forgetting about them.

    Of course we can, as a community, continue to complain whoever is in power will make no difference and so why vote? But then why should we then bemoan when none of the parties worry about us? Don't like that answer, I would just point out that the one group known to vote, pensioners, are the biggest welfare recipients who have done better in recent years.

    In the meantime lets stick with the current lot as the rich get richer and the poor continue to get poorer.

    So yes I am all for encouraging those with disabilities but able to work to do so. I am also in full support of providing those who cannot should be helped and supported, and not just at survival level, just as I am in support of those with disabilities who need help before being ready to move into work should get this, and this should include support in dealing with mental and physical disabilities.This support should include health support as well as meaningful training or education.

    What I don't agree with is tightening the regulations and then supporting them with a corrupt assessment process.


    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @thespiceman

    I am sure there have been many missed opportunities and not just by government.

    Looking back to my voluntary work I believe a lot of good was done, but know that opportunities were missed. One was when we surveyed the estate and looked at how people moved around, especially those with wheel chairs. The obvious answer was either to introduce a number of dropped kerbs or raise parts of the road to the footpath level. We had both priced up and then approached the council for approval to go ahead. They said no as it was down to the Highways Agency who would not give permission. Years later when the road needed repair it turned out we were responsible for them. 

    New Year is always a low key affair for us. Other than that I am fortunate enough that 2018 should be good for us and a lot of improvements for myself. I hope things improve for you as well.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • tommtomm Member Posts: 231 Pioneering
    edited December 2017
    @Geoark ,yes the milk snatcher  created the issue with those who she made redundant transferred onto the sick  in order to hide the real number of unemployed, The that evil globalist.narcissist & war criminal B-LIAR took over  and made things a lot worse, his government  started the persecution . not because of what Thatcher /major had done,  but because he bombed the **** out of another country  an illegal war, causing the eu to be flooded with their people, his government encouraged this, all because he really though he could be the next EU president that evil man sold us all out,  the labour partyy is still full of his ilk and can never be trusted to do the right thing,
    Under a labour government, things for us would get a lot worse, especially in the longer term,
    None of the mainstream parties gives a toss about us, limp/lie/con green and even ukip, they all are a coalition,  we need at total restart
    with politicians that put the indigenous people of this country first, reduce the pool of imported cheap labour, the wage will rise, also control immigration reduce the population  where possible by expelling all those who have been fighting in places like Syria, British citizens or not, all that reduces the pressure and in turn stops or should stop this persecution of the sick poor and disabled , but we need to fully leave the EU before we can even start, thats why i voted to leave back last year, there is no soft or hard brexit that was spin by the lying MSM

    As for :
    On the bright side the good news is since the last GE the trend has changed with more people leaving than entering.  Good old English jobs for English people and all that. I am sure with a little more encouragement we could persuade more to leave. 

    Only it seems that we don't want those jobs, with employers unable to find suitable employees to fill in the gaps. With an aging population and low birth rate we will once again be in decline with an unsupportable population, of course we have the luxury of dumping people on the disability scrapheap and forgetting about them.
    Thatsnot the truth is it? it's just another load of tripe pushed by the left, in the past 5 years  according to ONS the EE and other EU citizens hold the record for the bitrth rates in the uk  followed by what they describe other, ( muslim ect)  we the indigenious  are at the bottom  think how much that is costing the NHS , the impact on schools and housing  as well as the road system
    they aren't leaving in their droves at all, and those from the middle east and africa are rapidly increasing in numbers  most of who do not want to intergrate to our cultrures and never will
    All these cheap labourers doing these jobs that we won't do,,lol  is probably because those employers (who goverenment protect) are only paying the wage for 2 people  in every 3 they emnploy,  but the WTC subsidises  the wage , there should be no need for in work benefits wages should be paying enough money, the min wage isn't enough money btw,  that is why our own won't get out of bed let alone work, there is no incentive for them to do so 

  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    @tomm sorry lost interest when you mentioned indigenous people of a nation that consists of, at best, mongrels.

    'that is why our own won't get out of bed let alone work, there is no incentive for them to do so'

    So your best argument is that we are far too lazy, probably why many of the services you lament depend on non 'indigenous' people.


    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • tommtomm Member Posts: 231 Pioneering
    No, But was saying that are own won't work for peanuts  and why should they? the trash known as careeer politician's wouldn't work for nothing  , we live differently to those who come from poorer EU countries, so our living costs are higher,  there has to be an incentive to work  people do not work for nothing ,or if they would be no better off working , the big pool of cheap foreign labour , has seen wages fall or stagnate,  those on min wage and getting tax credits , do not have a disposable income that is of any benefit to the local economy
    Then there are those from countries out side the EU  who will never work,  and large percentages of those who have been here a while are out of wotrk

    So stop being so un patriotic
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Please remember that we all have opinions which should be respected,
    We also have members from all walks of life and ethnicity, racial comments will not be tolerated

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    ROFLMAO

    Ah that great cry to 'arms' and to silence those who disagree - patriotism.

    I live and benefit from living in a multicultural society, my daughter enjoys a much better life thanks to that multicultrism.

    Considering your attitude to the milliions of 'indigenous' people who do go to work every day on low paid jobs and are trying to improve things for themselves and their families I want absolutely nothing to do with your form of patriotism.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41648865
    Actually in town and cities near you.

    Yes I do enjoy living in London, and my daughter more so. She feels more threatend by white idiots at work than travelling on buses and tubes and visiting places.

    I certainly feel more relaxed and safer than when the IRA were active.

    But then we don't listen to the hate mongers.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    @tomm the report is actually about rise in  hate crime and while certainly not committed by one group a lot of it comes from your 'indigenous' people.

    Wow you mean the west is not the only place with legal systems?

    If you want to look at a minority of people to represent a culture how about this one for Britain: http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/25/a-drunken-christmas-eve-caps-off-three-booze-fuelled-nights-in-the-uk-7183932/

    Incidently our own record of how we have treated our children is not that great. 

    I know someone else who like to go on about fake news, a lot of it comes from him. But then why let facts interfere with a good story?

    You have clearly demonstrated your hatred foriegners and your posting on disability matters has been a little ambigious

    'even using the imaginary wheelchair  you may struggle on public transport during peak times'
    Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/37785/esa-and-work#lw6yVpEr6KjeQ0zo.99

    The poster never even mentioned using a wheelchair, so not sure why you felt he had an imaginary one. 

    On the hope you have the capacity to learn something having a wheelchair is not a primary block to having a 9 to 5 job and many wheelchair users do work these hours.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    @tomm you are so funny.

    You do like jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts don't you? But then living in a world where facts are dismissed so quickly on the basis of a single story (I am sure there have been more like this) it is not surprising.

    I am sure that those who have suffered hate crime on here are relieved that it never happened and was just fake news.

    I suppose next you will be telling us the corrupt news services have been deliberately silent over the massive amounts of amputations, beheadings and stonings ordered by Sharia courts in the West?
     
    Of course our much gentler Christianity does not have this kind of reputation or barbaric rules within its bible.

    Muslims have openly lived and worked in the UK since the 1500's. A 'barbaric 7th Century legal system' which has been a part of British culture for 5 centuries. Another, often ignored, fact is that while some would like to point out that our grandfathers fought two world wars to preserve our way of life, so did many muslims. Most of whom were volunteers and not conscripts.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello I thought this forum was this debate going on to be too racial and too political for my liking.  Not only that I have views and opinions that I feel where the Governments have been going wrong.  Seeing the threads here I do enjoy debating on policies and failures of this and other Governments.  Having been aware of what is happening in our community.  The question was at the start of this debate Ministers fail to back Claiments from Dishonest Assessors.  Instead it has become a slanging match.  Against all aspects of society.  I am a person who has seen so much hurt and pain caused from these policies.  At the end of the day we need to stand together and fight and for once yes maybe not agree with what every one says.  I have worked in Government Dept. and both Labour and the Conservative parties do work together to get policies done.  Even though they disagree.  Have different ideas and want different things.  The main issue this is now 2018  and I can see now that as a society we need to stop and get together.  Make a fresh start to begin the fight ahead.    I hope you understand every one involved here.  I am fully aware of what is happening in this country.  Time for change and a change is coming.  We have to do this because no one else is looking out for us as a community.  So just for once stand together and start to communicate and get involved in the battle ahead.  Fasten your seatbelts it is going to be a bumpy ride.
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  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @tomm   I would like to rest my case.  This is not I feel a suitable debate on the real question..  You are entitled to views and opinions.  I feel this is the wrong forum to argue the point what is happening in this country.   With regard to immigration.  We have I am sure many diverse communities who make up this forum.  I am grateful for all their contributions and  I have decided that should be the end of it.  I have put my points and arguments across very politely.    I hope you understand.
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  • GeoarkGeoark Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,370 Disability Gamechanger
    @thespiceman

    I agree that change is coming, and some of those changes I don't personally believe will make us a better country or a better country to live in what ever your persuasion.

    As much as I might disagree with tomm's viewpoint I do recognise that it is one that is steadily growing in the this country. tomm can scream as much as he wants 'fake news' but after certain incidents hate crime crime spiked. It doesn't just spike for one group, but all minority groups including disabled people.

    Once intollerance grows and becomes part of the national psyche it no longer becomes easy to target who is not tollerated. Especially as individuals are emboldened to target their favourite groups. This gets worse still when mob rule takes over.

    But more importantly, to me, is that here we should be a safe haven for those with disabilities to discuss their problems, shair experiences, tips etc. How do you create that safe haven with members who are happy to make clear that they are not welcome in the UK in the first and part of the problems of society? Where from no context at all they can decide someone has an invisible wheelchair? Or where members are more than happy to accuse disabled people they don't know of cheating the system based on hearsay?

    If this is the change that is coming I would rather leave than be part of it.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @Geoark Thank you for replying.  Please can I say I am agreement with you.  I always enjoy reading what you have to say.  Just felt that the question you stated about the first place.  Now it has become too much about the racial injustices of this country and the immigration debate.  This has nothing to do with the question in the first place has it.  Is that a debate for later.?
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  • tommtomm Member Posts: 231 Pioneering
    edited January 2018
    My reference to the bigger picture , is linked to why the sick & disabled and unemployed are persecuted by governments ,because instead of them dealing with the bigger problems the pick on us instead they actually spend more money with their reforms than the actually save, but our welfare benefits and National health service should not be available to the rest of the world, that policy does not work, if the gov are faced with the choice of cut benefits ect, or increase taxes, we are going to suffer every time
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