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Has DLA Turned Disabled People Greedy?

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wildlife

@DannyMoore, For me it's not about greed for more money. My complaining started as soon as the assessor crossed the line from writing a fair report to compiling one full of lies. If my award had been carried out using the moral standards I try to adopt in the way I treat others I would have accepted it and quietly got on with my life. When you "analyse" most of the complaints on here you'll find they are more about the dishonest way their claims were handled and the general way they were treated as human beings then greed for more money.

Matilda

I don't think that there is any case for suggesting that any disabled people might be 'greedy' by asking for more benefit until such time as they have lost an FTT and, if there was an error of law, not until they have lost an UTT, i.e. not until they have gone through, not just the flawed assessment system, but also the full judiciary appeal process.

wildlife

@Matilda Good point but there are people who don't feel able to go through the complete process but that doesn't mean anyone should insinuate they were obviously not entitled to a higher award and therefore just being greedy. No-one has the right to accuse or judge another human being without proof that they are motivated purely by the want of more money. We can only judge ourselves in the way @DannyMoore suggests. So an interesting discussion topic and may make some people stop and think what their motive might be for wanting a higher rate than they've been offered. Let's not forget those who know their assessment was unfair and their award not what they would have been offered had the assessor not been willing to lie yet still accept it and are grateful for it. Every case is different but I prefer to accept that those motivated by pure greed are very much in the minority.

Geoark

LOL greed or need, one of my favourite subjects.

I think @wildlife sums up the real issue, it is not about greed but a corrupt system which very few people who knows how it works has any faith in.

Rather than go into one over this greed vs need I would suggest looking at some good research. https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/minimum-income-standard-britain-what-people-think

It is based on what the public is the minimum standard of living acceptable in the UK in 2017, along with a minimum standard of earnings needed to meet this. There is a description of how this is reached.

One group sadly missed out, though there is a general consensus they have higher costs are those with disabilities.

So I will ask you the same question I would ask any conservative, Particularly for those who will never work, or may never work, because of their disabilities, how far below standard of living we as a society believe to be the minimum is acceptable?

Of course if you can come up with research supporting your point of view I would be happy to look at it and respond.

Neil2017

Hi @DannyMoore
i agree with the comments made above that it is not greed in claiming specific rates of PIP, it is the complexity of the system in order to get the correct rates in the first place either transferring from DLA to PIP or from being a new claimant.
PIP is not really intended to benefit for general day to day living costs like food and energy bills. It is supposed to be for additional mobility costs or care costs although many may say that other incomes like ESA or state pension may not stretch far enough.
I agree with your point that some people may be able to make cash go a bit further, but it depends a lot on their circumstances and severity or kind of disabilities as well as level of knowledge. For example shopping around on a lot of stuff could save money like changing energy supplier if possible. Changing bank account if it is convenient like the branch you wish to change to is accessible and you meet the terms of tge new account. Some banks are now paying around 100 pounds to do this.
I also believe inflation or the increase on prices that we as disabled people pay overall is much higher than the government states. (Currently 3.1%) And given the government sneakily released the fact that it is going to freeze welfare payments at or around 1% for the next few years and it does NOT specify exactly which I believe tough times could be ahead for many of us if this goes through.
In addition it is becoming a post code lottery more and more since the devolution into 3 country assemblies and Westminster in where you can get totally subsidised NHS prescriptions and the like.

Matilda

What I mean is, if someone has gone through appeal as far as they can and have lost, then maybe only maybe they are motivated by money. But I don't think anyone can be suspected as motivated by money until that stage.

[Deleted User]

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Rosiesmum

Hi @DannyMoore it's a difficult subject to address and I get exactly what you mean it's hard when it's written to get the point across as intended isn't it?

For us personally,no it's absolutely NOT about the money,it never was and never will be.We are fortunate in that my husband has always worked so we can cover our expenses,unlike many.

I have a son with Autism and I suppose, I've become like him in a lot of ways after having to live such a regimented life as it where for nearly twenty years..He is an absolute star and his simple way of looking at the world is very refreshing but he has a real issue when people do not follow rules!!

My issue is fairness,the fact procedures in their own rules are not being followed,which then has a knock on effect.

This in turn can lead to a detrimental effect on someones health . If I use my son's mobility issues for example he has always been provided with transportation or he doesn't travel.Not because he's lazy because it's unsafe and he physically can't do it,let alone safely etc.

I totally agree with you since disability has been 'monetised' it has become more of an issue all round.It is hard though because of the many types of disabilities no one size approach fits all hence the need for the system so disabled users can use the benefit for services they need.

My cousin as I said in another thread was provided with a Reliant Robin type car and eventually supported housing.I think back then approx. 40 years ago any help was given in services and goods rather than cash support.

Rosiesmum

P.S I forgot to add the most important bit that I would rather have two healthy son's,but despite their differences they are my world and I would not change them

We also did not claim benefits for many years until someone saw me strolling to school with my son's spare back brace and we got chatting I had never even heard of DLA and didn't even think they would get it.

[Deleted User]

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Rosiesmum

Hi @DannyMoore it's lovely to meet you and I for one think the way you and my son look at the world is amazing.

He has taught me so much and allows me so often, to celebrate the smallest joys in life that other people may not even notice!

There are many people working very hard to try and help get the system right.I know I won't be giving up anytime soon

Fairness is very important to me and my son and one of the questions I actually put to the DWP ministers,regarding support for people who do not have family etc.

It will take time to get the system right and the more we try to help hopefully the better it will get.

It's nice to have a moan once in a while but I believe in being constructive and trying to help put things right as well (my son's influence again I get told off if I rant for too long lol)

Neil2017

@DannyMoore
i would say to some extent I am like you and hence query or believe I am at least mildly autistic. I would like tge world to be much more black and white or structured in some ways. But then I see very little is purely absolute. A lot is rather fluid or anything in between black and white!

i think this is one resin the assessments for PIP in particular are complex or not straight forward. Trying to fit people into tick boxes and sometimes simplistic or general physical assessments.

plus the cynical reason is that the current government want to cut the cost of welfare overall and probably pushing people through mandatory reconsiderations and tribunals unnecessarily at times for such benefits as PIP and ESA

Markmywords

The most one can get on PIP alone is less than half the gross minimum wage for an over 25 year old.

The government wants the PIP bill reduced but they cannot do it openly without losing votes. So they do it dishonestly with the help of two agent companies to provide some distance.

Given the dishonesty, how can a claimant ever know they are getting the proper award for their circumstances?

I fail to see how a maximum of £7337.20 a year, less the costs of having major disabilities, can provide any form of opulence.

How meagre a lifestyle do we have to have before it is considered frugal enough?
The recent roll-out of Universal Credit caused a spike in suicides. Were they greedy and crying wolf ?

[Deleted User]

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Nystagmite

I understand where Danny is coming from. There have been posts (not just on here, in general) where people have complained about getting than DLA and they're clearing trying too hard to get the higher rate. One example I've seen a few times has been - under DLA mobility, you could get the higher rate if you could walk less than 50 metres (I think?) and now it's 20. Some people have now asked if they'd also qualify because they'd need help getting their chair out of their car or something similar.

I did originally lose everything under PIP (I was on mid care and low mobility) and did get it looked at again. But it's clear I do meet the criteria. Going from £250-odd to £125 a week was a huge drop and did mean I couldn't afford some of the disability things I needed. Nor could I really afford to pay my parents to come and help me do things or take me appointments.

But for some of us, it's not just about the money side of things - PIP care, as someone under 35 allows me to claim the one bedroom rate within housing benefit. As an adult with amongst other things, Autism and various sensory issues, I can't live with other people.

Geoark

Hi @DannyMoore I knew you were not trying to be offensive, hence my approach to my post. The example you gave with your friend's father is a simple attempt at fraud.

@Nystagmite it doesn't help that many people don't appreciate that the two are very different or what the criteria is. A lot of the opening posts members list what is wrong with them when they complain they get turned down without a word on how it affects them individually, or what support they need/have.

Rosiesmum

Hi @DannyMoore oh yes I so know what you mean.Going back many years now ,my son is 19,the first thing we learned as parents was to think outside the box as it were..He's our youngest (we have three sons) and everything we ever learnt as parents with the other two literally went straight out the window and we had to start from scratch!

Fortunately the internet had also been born by then so it has been a godsend in a lot of ways to help us learn how to support him best. I find it quite a refreshing outlook to be honest,in such a difficult world we sometimes we live in.

@Nystagmite yes I think my son was more worried about when he attends appointments and not having his blue badge as parking is such a nightmare in London.You are so right it is more for him at least the other bits that come with it rather than financial.

.I'm hoping my son's will both be able to eventually live independently with support, so it's nice talking to young people who are already able to manage this.

[Deleted User]

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Rosiesmum

Thanks @DannyMoore I'll take a look at that later.Sounds like just the sort of thing I'm looking for!

I was fortunate to stumble upon Jacqui Jackson and her family in a documentary regarding diet and autism.Her son Luke is an amazing young man. It gave me hope for my son when we were really struggling.

I needed info mainly on the sensory side as he had and still has a lot of issues with this side of things,over time we came to understand more why he did what he did (he was non verbal til around 5).

We dabbled in the early years with many things,not to change my son,but to try to make his life easier as we got to know his needs.I don't think we'll ever STOP learning and he keeps us on our toes but it is also fascinating to watch him grow up and achieve things.

@Geoark yes I agree the criteria is so different as it concentrates on function mostly and I think it takes a little getting used to filling out the forms differently to the old style DLA.

I think my main issue with 'the system' is the lack of consistency being applied. Again this comes back to quality of assessments,are we all expecting too much of the assessors do you think???

They can't after all be experts on everything I understand that,but are we ever going to get a fair system? One that always works?

Matilda

We are only going to get assessments that are more accurate when these are undertaken by doctors, as was the case for DLA.