PIP, DLA and AA
If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.

Severe Depression And Severe Anxiety

keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
Hello

I have been refused PIP (following a mandatory reconsideration) because the DWP and Atos have stated that there is no evidence of any cognitive impairment?
I am confused by their remark and was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. Thank you.




Replies

  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    Many are going through this so it's not unusual @keira

    Time to appeal with as much evidence as possible and make sure you get good support such as welfare advice/support worker/social worker/CAB etc that's if you haven't already 

    Hope you win
  • keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
    Hi, thanks for the reply. But what on earth do they mean by this statement?
  • keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
    edited January 2018
    Sorry, but what I meant to say is that, is it not enough to have a diagnosis? I thought they would know that mental health conditions and their associated symptoms include problems such as lack of concentration which have all been fully explained to them and the impact they have.
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    @keira
    I find reading their feedback can fuel mixed feelings 

    I had a special coccyx cushion in a cotton tote bag - they knew yet said I had a shoulder bag - misconstrued lies and lying by omission is typical 

    The baffle everyone 

    Keep on keeping on until every avenue has been exhausted in an attempt to win what is entitled by law 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    keira said:
    Sorry, but what I meant to say is that, is it not enough to have a diagnosis? I thought they would know that mental health conditions and their associated symptoms include problems such as lack of concentration which have all been fully explained to them and the impact they have.
    Hi,
    PIP isn't about a diagnosis, it's how those conditions affect you daily. Conditions affect everyone differently and no 2 people are the same. You need evidence to support your claim. The evidence should be based on which descriptors apply to you, so if you have problems going out then your evidence should state the reasons why.

    Only 20% of MR decisions are successful, so your chances were always slim at this stage. Your next step is the Tribunal and you have 1 month from the date of the decision to send the SSCS1 form. You must attach the MR decision letter to this otherwise the Tribunal will refuse your appeal. The best chance of success will be if you appear in person at your hearing, rather than ask for a paper base decision. 65% of those who appear have a decision in their favour. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    65% success rate! 

    I hope I'm one of them at the end of this month bc I felt like it's slow manslaughter 

    @keira

    i hope you can appeal in time 
  • keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
    So I will need to get my GP to to write a letter stating that my mental health conditions cause me to have no concentration when I go out and that this is unsafe when I cross roads etc? Is that what you meant?
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    Some assessors and decision-makers seem to think that mental health conditions means that you have cognitive problems - i.e. that you are learning disabled. You need to emphasize that while you're of average/high/whatever intelligence, your mental health conditions make you: have low motivation, afraid to leave the house alone, incapable of taking care of yourself, whatever.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    At least, that seems to be the way that some of them use the word "cognitive". My last PIP assessor's report says, "Clearly no mental health problems, as has a Master's degree! Cognitive ability is high." Uh?
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    ...what about Van Gogh Motzart and Nijinsky... all of which suffered mental health hurdles... they were all Avant Garde geniuses! 

    I might add this this when I attend my Tribunal 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    "Cognitive Impairment" for a lot of assessors means they asked the claimant a few simple questions which bear no relationship to the day to day impact of mental health conditions and either the questions were answered correctly or they weren't but they write false results on your report and decide from this there is no cognitive impairment therefore no mental health problems exist. This is very wrong but just another way they have of conning people and denying them benefit. From my experience I have been recently diagnosed with Complex PTSD a much more severe case then simple PTSD which I have had for many years but I have no cognitive impairment. My MP mentioned this specifically as a failing in the current PIP process that mental health was not being assessed properly. For mobility I scored 0 for planning a journey. After my MR the DWP looked again at the evidence I had which was 46 years of appointments and treatment and reports from the IAPT service. I was then offered 4 points for needing encouragement to go out. This may help in deciding what evidence you need which you can get by asking your surgery admin to print anything relevant of your medical records. Or a complete summary of your medical history. My assessor kept repeating "although she has been diagnosed with Anxiety and Depression she does not have medication or Specialist input". Not true but it gives you an idea if you can show you have both of these than it will help. Lack of concentration will not be enough to prove you need help when out and about. Panic attacks are discounted which are far worse. This is only from my experience.       
  • janice_in_wonderlandjanice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    edited January 2018
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4993480/amp/Intelligent-people-higher-risk-mental-illness.html 

    I come from a hyper-intelligent background - geniuses even but that's another story 

    I'm both proud of and yet sad to have inherited the symptoms causing silent suffering for the level of intelligence in my genes


  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @keira   I see reading what does cognitive impairment mean.  A lot of people commented on this.  Why not ask and find go to Doctors ask them.  I had similar in assessment one time.  How can you tell beats me.  I have anxiety and depression.  Far as I know it is how you respond to daily living and tasks.  How difficult you find things.  This is what I believe cause mental problems such as stress and anxiety.  For example in one medical shows no signs of rocking back and forth.  One of the signs of anxiety.   I pointed out in a review with my doctor.  When I failed assessment and had to appeal went down.  Went through it stage by stage.  Corrected all the nil points I had seen on the report.  We both agreed a lot of lies.  So that is an option chat with your doctor about report.  In my case appeal successful that time.  Also wish you the best in appeal.  This is a message of support.  I hope and pray be successful.
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello I forgot to add I do not understand you had a man recon as they call it.  Then refused.  Still appeal though.  Get evidence from any friends or family you have.  You should be appealing that decision.  Just have to fight do not give up.  I am aware that this man recon can be appealed against.  Keep appealing and I do think is it going on.  Another obstacle DWP and ATOS are putting up for our community Take care
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    >My assessor kept repeating >"although she has been >diagnosed with Anxiety and >Depression she does not have >medication or Specialist input".
    ARGH!! The assessor's report for my recent PIP assessment, in which I got 0 points, said the same thing. Yeah. That's because he ignored my mention of the NHS outpatient MH program I've been in for 6 years, and didn't write down either of my anti-depressants. *Rolls eyes* Oh, and he ignored the fact that elsewhere he had written down my 22 year history of mental health problems. All of these things are in my PIP questionnaire, but clearly nobody bothered to look at that. 

    Agree with everything else you wrote.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    I am sure that my move to PIP will be done as soon as I reach retirement age then, when I lose DLA, I won't be able to get it back. After that my life really will be over as I will never be able to leave my home again. What a nice retirement I have to look forward to.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    TK, you will not lose your DLA at retirement age, when you are invited to apply for PIP it does not matter how old you are if you are changing from DLA. The only thing when this happens is that the mobility component you accept can never be increased even if your needs change.
    So you might not be asked to apply until you are 67, as long as you meet the criteria for a PIP award then you will continue to receive one. If you are awarded and accept standard mobility this will never be increased, so in this case if mobility is an issue theb you need to be prepared to challenge it all the way for enhanced.

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
    edited January 2018
    It seems to me that a lack of/ level of medication or no "specialist input" is being used as an indicative and unfair measure of a person's mental health problems and a convenient way to refuse this benefit. As far as I'm aware, there is no prerequisite that a person has to be taking medication or receiving any type of treatment in order to qualify for PIP. Also, I think that the Equality Act states that the law has to look at how your conditions affect you without medication or treatment and in not doing so is clear discrimination.
  • keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
    Form what I've read I don't think it's worth appealing for the mobility component of pip for mental health. People with anxiety or depression seem to get a maximum of 4 points for this which equates to no award. I do not have physical mobility problems so can't get any points for moving around therefore it seems I will just be putting myself under all this extra stress for nothing. Cheers for your advice everyone.
  • rachel1988rachel1988 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    edited January 2018
    Hi I had a similar problem,you can ring PIP and ask for a copy of the assessors report which I found helpful,also if you look online for  a pip handbook it gives you a lot of information all of which comes in handy when writing to them trying to fight your case 
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    What worries me @CockneyRebel is that a lot of people lose DLA when applying for PIP and then have to reapply. From what I have read re-application at retirement age is not possible to get it back, at least not the mobility component. That is what worries me as I need a car to leave home. As I have such a unique problem I always run into doctors misdiagnosing me with crumbling spine and becoming dismissive because the problems caused by that are so minor by comparison. I know that comment might upset sufferers of it but all I can say is that their medication levels compared to mine are so different as to put me on another planet by comparison.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    TK
    Yes you are right, if you lose having challenged all the way to tribunal, you cannot reapply for pip after retirement age, you can only apply for A.A. and there is no mobility comonent with AA

    That is why I try and make people aware, when they are approaching retirement age, that the mobility component  must be fought for.
    If you are on PIP your final assessment before retirement age will set your mobility award.. So be aware that if your award length  takes you past retirement age then the mobiity component you have will stay as it is and will not go up.
    For example, a claimant is 63 and has an assessment, is awarded standard mobilty for 5 years. the review will normally be in 4 years when the claimant will be 67. Even if your mobility needs have changed you cannot now be awarded the enhnced rate for mobility.
    The only time that this is different is when a claimant who is on DLA is invited to claim PIP. The claimant can be receiving state pension aged 67 for example. This one tiime assesssment can award enhanced rate mobility and if it does not then the normal appeals process of MR and tribunal should be followed. The mobility award is then set if you continue to meet the criteria.

    It is also important to understand that PIP can be reassessed at any time and reviews continue into retirement. In theory you could be 90 years young and still be called for a f2f assessment

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    I have an indefinite DLA award of high rate mobility and middle rate care. I was told I would have to apply for PIP within 2 years so initially was given a 2 year award. After 2 years that became lifetime. It has now been 4 or 5 years since the lifetime award and I have heard nothing about PIP. I am currently 61 and my retirement age is 66. I know that is almost 5 years away but I am OCD and hate things being outstanding and not knowing.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    I forgot to mention that I have other issues that will affect any claim for PIP.

    Due to a mistake by Social Care in assigning a trainee to my case. The mistakes she made caused them to be proliferous with lies and excuses and they have made up all sorts of bad things about me. I am consequently blacklisted and barred from having a Social Worker or any care arranged by Social Care.

    Despite constant suicidal thoughts I was discharged by Mental Health after 2 years as they could not help me especially as the agoraphobia prevented me from attending therapy sessions.

    I was refused help by the lower level Mental Health group (Health in mind) due to my suicidal thoughts.

    I have recently been discharged by Orthopaedics as my neck problems are magically not in need of surgery.

    I was discharged by the hospital Pain Clinic after they made a big mistake which was then covered up by changing my health records retrospectively and they have refused 2 referrals since stating they cannot help.

    I am supposed to be under the community Pain Clinic but fell out with the doctor when he completely misdiagnosed my neck / shoulder problems. I am supposed to go on a course but have heard nothing for over 6 months, not since I informed them I could not attend the course they wanted me to go on as I was away. They promised to get back to me and didn't.

    There is only 1 GP at my surgery that I trust enough to talk to.

    Despite trying 15 or more different anti-depressants over the years there are none that I can cope with the side effects caused. Consequently I take nothing for severe depression. It concerned me when I saw a post that said of PIP "If you aren't taking medication for it, you don't have it".

    All this means that it will be very difficult to come up with supporting documentation.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi TK

    I can understand your concerns. PIP is behind in the change over so you could get a letter next week or two years time. There is a lot of rumour and misleading stuff written about PIP. Especially on the forums we mostly hear the bad side. In my case I had no supporting evidence and got high mobility standard care just from the form anf f2f as did my wife. so it can be done. It is good that you are here to learn all you can so can be as best prepared as possible.

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @CockneyRebel Thank you for this.  Glad you are all here.  With regard to PIP please can I say I will any issues, problems contact the team.  I know have said this before on current DLA high motobility component.  Got a letter few years ago saying about the change to PIP.  That they will contact me.  So have been trying to save on what I am living on now.  Please can I suggest any one in this situation think about trying to put away funds.  Limited is £6000 I believe.    Will be looking at all options.
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi thespiceman

    DLA and PIP are non means tested and are unaffected by any income or savings. If you are in receipt of income related ESA then savings under £6000 are disregarded, savings over  £6000 then are taken into consideration

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,756 Listener
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
Sign in or join us to comment.