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PIP Tribunal soon and im getting scared

Pookalooza

I have had PIP for 2 years as i suffer from borderline personality disorder. I sent alot of evidence the first time around, from my access to medical records online through my doctors. They didnt ask to see me but infact put me straifght onto the enhanced daily living rate of PIP.

I got my PIP taken away from me after failing a face to face last summer, with more or less the exact same information both in paper format, and what i told the advisor.

I am going to tribunal and was wondering what i should do, what causing me the most anxiety is the Atos PA4 report based on what ive said.

They have got everything completely wrong, and seem to actually dispute my diagnosis altogether, saying difficulties stated are inconsistent with her condition history of BPD.

Im at a loss what to say, whenever i look at the report and the way they twisted my words, i get upset and cant read it or take anything in.

Any suggestions? Im so terrifed they are going to win.

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Pippa_Alumni

Hi @Pookalooza, and welcome!

Best of luck for your upcoming tribunal, I'm so sorry that you're having to go through it and feeling scared. Many of our members have been through the process themselves, and I'm sure some will be able to offer their advice and reassurance. Do keep us updated and let us know how it goes!

Pippa_Alumni

I wonder if @Matilda, @sherry777 or @francisphilip could offer any advice?

Matilda

@Pookalooza

I won my appeal last May, enhanced both elements awarded, increased from standard both elements.

The panel will be made up of a judge, a doctor and a disability expert. A DWP rep might attend but they won't form part of the panel. You should be told in advance if DWP are sending a rep.

Keep clam and answer confidently. If you don't understand a question, ask for clarification. Don't argue with the judge!

Judge might ask you if you've brought your bundle so make sure you take it with you. Also might ask how you travelled to venue. Don't drive yourself, take a taxi if necessary. Tribunals think ability to drive indicates a lot of strength and stamina and ability to plan journeys.

Don't dress up, wear clothes without fastenings and flat shoes. Minimal make-up and jewellery.

Have your wits about you and be prepared for a grilling . Tribunals are supposed to be inquisitorial to find out what you can and can't do. That's their job - they are not attacking you personally.

Thorough medical evidence even if it's not recent, would help. The only medical evidence I had was the DWP doctor's report and my GP's report from 1998 (both very thorough) when I was awarded DLA highest rates both components indefinitely.

The other two tribunal members weren't too bad - but the doctor asked some probing questions. Asked for how long I could walk (time). 20m = 30 seconds in the DWP's opinion. Always relate time to distance.

Doc also asked how did I know I could only walk 20 yards? Had I ever measured it? I replied no, it was an estimate based on experience of distances.

The judge, doctor (as well as the Atos assessor) all seemed to think that ability to drive indicates a low level of daily living (not mobility) disability, i.e. indicates a certain strength and stamina. I told them I only take two, maybe three, round trips of 12 miles or less a week; I find driving long distances tiring.

They asked about the aids I use, do I use a disabled toilet when out and if my home is on one level. Doc asked how far from my door is my car parked (right outside!).

Tribunal based most of their questions on the 7 day diary I submitted with my claim. If you haven't already submitted a diary send one to tribunal ASAP. Disability Rights site have a draft diary you can adapt.

Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/33823/pip-tribunal-decision#lTpDRPlU63MeA1b0.99

If you would like to ask any more, please feel free to do so.

janice_in_wonderland

Hi @Pookalooza
It's hard for everyone atm particularly where mental health is concerned

But you're actually lucky you got diagnosed and had that rate for 2 years bc so many are undiagnosed/dismissed and suffering in silence

I hope you win your case
best of luck

Pookalooza

Hi @Matilda
Your information was really helpful, from what you said i am guessing you have a mobility issue, which is the main part of your disability.

The problem i am seeming to have is that the more competent i come across, the less i am believed to be mentally ill. If i bring along my pack and all my notes i have i'm scared they are going to think me capable.

I know my mental illness history inside out because i have had to, to manage my own care, i'm the only one who has given a toss about my MH until 2014 when i got proper help.

I was chastised by the DWP for being competent, well dressed, having a good memory.

I can handle a grilling, iv'e had this illness my whole life, my illness IS me, and i know me. So i can handle this in theory, but no one seems to understand i can be ill and also have intelligence and capacity at times. This i cannot handle and im scared i might loose my **** if i get any more 'professionals' telling me how my illness affects me, and denying my illness even exists.

I cant drive, i never learned, but there is also the fact that i have been on some strong medications in the past, and would not have been allowed to, as well as the fact that if i am ill or stressed i have been known to dissociate.

I have a wealth of documentation from the last 10 years detailing my ups and downs, which i can take with me.

I was discharged from MH services last year, after successfully completing therapy and being well, however i have had hospital admission since then (actually one of the reasons i relapsed was straight after the DWP face to face when i got so down i tried to take my own life)

I am currently trying to get back into MH services as i need my med's reviewed and my Dr wont touch them as iv'e had bad reactions in the past, which have sent me into relapse.

The DWP seemed to take the fact that i had been discharged and was relatively stable after my therapy as me being cured, ignoring all my info on my forms and some of my evidence from my care-coordinator stating my need to financial aid so i can concentrate on my recovery.

I have not got a date set for my tribunal yet, can i just send them things, or do they need to write to me beforehand? iv'e been waiting 19 weeks now and they have informed me it might be another 3-4.

To make matters worse, i am currently in a battle over my access to medical records with my Dr's surgery. They took away my right to view my medical records (which is how i got all my evidence) and didn't tell me why or how i can now access them.

I feel like i'm up **** creek without a paddle.

I am getting better but i still have so much that impacts my daily life, and i feel like its not a black and white issue at all.

The DWP have penalized me for being lucid, intelligent, dressed, and organised. They have made a decision that me not being involved with MH services means i'm well, despite still being on tablets for the issue and ignoring the actual diagnosis which is a lifelong, life limiting condition.

I'm just scared the tribunal will do the same, if you say there is a DR on the panel, i'm thinking great, but if they no nothing about mental health issues how its that any help

I'm so scared, please help.

[Deleted User]

@Pookalooza Ring the out of hours mental health team tell them your not coping well ..they will send a psychiatrist doctor to your home ..and then you will be automatically put back in MH without having to be referred.

Matilda

@Pookalooza

You can submit new evidence to the tribunal up to 7 days before hearing, and can submit new evidence on the day as long as it isn't more than 2 A4 pages.

Tribunal won't accept a large amount of new evidence on the day but you can send it beforehand if it's not already been submitted.

As you say, my disabilities are mobility and other physical disability related.

I don't know much about mental illness. You could seek advice from the Scope Helpline who also might be able to tell you about CAB or similar services in your area. And Mind Helpline might be able to advise.

Disability Rights UK site does have advice about claiming for mental illness in their PIP section as well as a draft diary for people with mental illness.

I'd advise anyone not to look very well-groomed at a tribunal hearing.

Pookalooza

Budgie2 said:

@Pookalooza Ring the out of hours mental health team tell them your not coping well ..they will send a psychiatrist doctor to your home ..and then you will be automatically put back in MH without having to be referred.

Iv'e never had this happen to me even when iv'e really been unwell. I suppose i could ring up and tell them im feeling suicidal and i need to see someone in the morning.

I just feel i shouldent have to be doing this to get PIP, however whilst writing this is am getting more and more unwell with anxiety.

[Deleted User]

@Pookalooza Hi I would just ring the out of hours now ..then they will write to your doctor that way you will get your referral..if you do it in the morning they will just say go to your doc he needs to refer you ...out of hours is quicker .

[Deleted User]

Pookalooza said:

Budgie2 said:

@Pookalooza Ring the out of hours mental health team tell them your not coping well ..they will send a psychiatrist doctor to your home ..and then you will be automatically put back in MH without having to be referred.

Iv'e never had this happen to me even when iv'e really been unwell. I suppose i could ring up and tell them im feeling suicidal and i need to see someone in the morning.

I just feel i shouldent have to be doing this to get PIP, however whilst writing this is am getting more and more unwell with anxiety.

Oh yes sorry you are going to ring them now ..My mistake on reading ..Yes good ring now!!!!

Pookalooza

I honestly don't think they will send anyone. I've been on the edge of killing myself and they've never bothered. I've always just had to take myself to A+E

[Deleted User]

Pookalooza said:

I honestly don't think they will send anyone. I've been on the edge of killing myself and they've never bothered. I've always just had to take myself to A+E

Well it's worth ringing so it gets logged then you can ring docs tomorrow and tell him you need your CPN to keep monitoring you .

Pookalooza

Budgie2 said:

Pookalooza said:

I honestly don't think they will send anyone. I've been on the edge of killing myself and they've never bothered. I've always just had to take myself to A+E

Well it's worth ringing so it gets logged then you can ring docs tomorrow and tell him you need your CPN to keep monitoring you .

I dont have CPN. I'm worried pretending im ill is going to make me actually ill.

[Deleted User]

Oh sorry I read it al wrong then I thought you was wanting to get back into help from mental health because you needed the help genuinely..

[Deleted User]

Pookalooza said:

Hi @Matilda
Your information was really helpful, from what you said i am guessing you have a mobility issue, which is the main part of your disability.

The problem i am seeming to have is that the more competent i come across, the less i am believed to be mentally ill. If i bring along my pack and all my notes i have i'm scared they are going to think me capable.

I know my mental illness history inside out because i have had to, to manage my own care, i'm the only one who has given a toss about my MH until 2014 when i got proper help.

I was chastised by the DWP for being competent, well dressed, having a good memory.

I can handle a grilling, iv'e had this illness my whole life, my illness IS me, and i know me. So i can handle this in theory, but no one seems to understand i can be ill and also have intelligence and capacity at times. This i cannot handle and im scared i might loose my **** if i get any more 'professionals' telling me how my illness affects me, and denying my illness even exists.

I cant drive, i never learned, but there is also the fact that i have been on some strong medications in the past, and would not have been allowed to, as well as the fact that if i am ill or stressed i have been known to dissociate.

I have a wealth of documentation from the last 10 years detailing my ups and downs, which i can take with me.

I was discharged from MH services last year, after successfully completing therapy and being well, however i have had hospital admission since then (actually one of the reasons i relapsed was straight after the DWP face to face when i got so down i tried to take my own life)@pookalooza I thought this is what you was referring to and needed help with.

I am currently trying to get back into MH services as i need my med's reviewed and my Dr wont touch them as iv'e had bad reactions in the past, which have sent me into relapse.

The DWP seemed to take the fact that i had been discharged and was relatively stable after my therapy as me being cured, ignoring all my info on my forms and some of my evidence from my care-coordinator stating my need to financial aid so i can concentrate on my recovery.

I have not got a date set for my tribunal yet, can i just send them things, or do they need to write to me beforehand? iv'e been waiting 19 weeks now and they have informed me it might be another 3-4.

To make matters worse, i am currently in a battle over my access to medical records with my Dr's surgery. They took away my right to view my medical records (which is how i got all my evidence) and didn't tell me why or how i can now access them.

I feel like i'm up **** creek without a paddle.

I am getting better but i still have so much that impacts my daily life, and i feel like its not a black and white issue at all.

The DWP have penalized me for being lucid, intelligent, dressed, and organised. They have made a decision that me not being involved with MH services means i'm well, despite still being on tablets for the issue and ignoring the actual diagnosis which is a lifelong, life limiting condition.

I'm just scared the tribunal will do the same, if you say there is a DR on the panel, i'm thinking great, but if they no nothing about mental health issues how its that any help

I'm so scared, please help.

Pookalooza

I do need the help genuinely, but in my experience, the way you're describing doesn't happen and is not the best way in my area, to get back into services.

I have literally never called out of hours and had a Psych come around, you can barely get help from the crisis team.

Im going to ring again in the morning, because my Dr had made a referral to them which they seem to have ignored.

[Deleted User]

It does happen when you are in a crisis that's what they are there for they came straight to my mum 2 hours later.

[Deleted User]

They are not ignoring the referral it's just that your placed on a waiting list

Pookalooza

In my experience it doesnt happen. I have many friends in the mental health community, including myself who have been completely ignored by crisis teams. It's varied from county to county.

As for the referral yes they are ignoring it, they discharged me wrongfully after my GP referred me as he can't touch my psychiatric medication.
I appreciate your advise but it's not relevant in my case.

[Deleted User]

No problem at all ..Good Luck.

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