PIP, DLA and AA
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How to win your award

CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
There is no guaranteed way to receive the award you deserve

It does not matter whether you are making a new claim, a change from DLA to PIP, a re-assessment, an MR or an appeal. At the moment the only way to receive the award you deserve is to prove that you meet the criteria for for an award.

We see so many people on the forums that do not understand what is required, who then blame the system for not giving them what they think they deserve. Rightly or wrongly PIP is not DLA and the two are very different.

PIP is a test of functionallity not condition. All the medical evidence that you have this or that condition will not mean that you qualify for an award. It is 100% up to you to prove that your functionallity is affected to which ever degree fits the descriptor and then back it up with medical and other evidence.

More is not always better.

If you send in the equivalent of "war and peace" as evidence, don't expect the DWP or HCP to read it. Send only relevant evidence that attests to your lack of functionality. If you do have a lot of evidence, then include a summary and a reference to where the best support is by page and paragraph.

Many of us with long term conditions are used to managing and hiding how we are affected. This is not to your advantage when applyinng at any stage. You need to become the you that does not have these coping mechanisms in place. Sucking your belly in to impress a girl does not work.but you will fool the assessor and lose what you are entitled to.

Forums are full of tales of injustice, of HCP's that lie, that make stupid assumptions. HCP's are taught how to ask question, much like sales people, to gain a specific answer. No it isn't right and often a false result is recorded.

We are all conditioned to reply in the positive. " how are you "  "I am fine thanks " .

When asked can "you do x" we will reply automatically "yes but " that is to late the assessor has closed the window at yes

Try and reply "no but  " the assessor then has to explore further

Try it in every day life.

Yes the deck is stacked against many people but with a little knowledge and understanding of what is going on we can achieve what we deserve

Yes there are HCP's with an agenda, yes there are HCP's that will fail even a corpse. The system is far from perfect, because of cuts there is little in the way of help

CR

 
Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste

Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,353 Disability Gamechanger
    CR, thanks for being so honest and blunt with you description on how to improve your chances of winning your PIP award. One lady lost her award because under her hobbies she said I do knitting sewing and art, instead of saying , I used to do, I wish I could still do, I can't do this any more. I used to go on walking holidays now i'am stuck to a mobility scooter. Not saying to lie but be up front with how you struggle in daily life. I referred her to Benefits and work site and weeks later was informed her award was reinstated.
  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 469 Pioneering
    Yes I agree with everything you say Cockney Rebel.
    Also the questions they ask are questions that they are reading off a computer screen and if you answer no you can’t do to something, the computer automatically starts to generate more,  questions on this subject. Trying to catch you out.
    This is the same type of  software they use on the emergency 111 system. The person who answers the call is not qualified like a person who does 999 calls.
    This info then is put into a report and the computer will no doubt be the one adding the points up.
    so as I’ve said before I don’t beleave it is right to start putting complaints in to Capita/ Atos about the assessor except if they were rude in their actions.towards the patient 

  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    Well said everyone.
    When we feel under presure and every joint hurts "i feel fine" gets rid of the questions in everyday life.

    We then forget that we have to behaviour differently sometimes to show how we really feel/are

  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    To true Cockny Rebel. You have to give the computer/assessor 100 per cent for trying.  At the very last few minutes my assessor asked me if I could sew.  During the exercises she could see I had problems with my right hand, and I had stated I had problems with washing and handling a towel! My honest reply was no.  Also ask me if a male I didn't know came into the room, could I strike up a conversation with, nooo!  I take it that was asked as I said I could,t plan a long journey etc.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 859 Pioneering
    edited February 2018
    I also have to agree with the above advice by @cockneyrebel I have explained everything that I used to be able to do, and now have justified and proved now I can't do it, and I have gone into great detail on how it effects me daily now and everything is backed up with my support teams, Consultants of what I can't now do.

    Dont just say I try if you can't do it and in pain etc. Say!!! If you have and use aids state them and if you can't use them properly or their not helpful Say so and explain WHY.

    Also to add Most think a GP will know everything they might know a little but will also not know to much either of your functional impact. So be aware your the best person to know how you can't cope.

    I myself as a rule have always had PB assessments No F2F? But back it up with further functional evidence. Diagnosis help to a point also say if your seeking professional help or looking to recieve it, or you already recieve it.



    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


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  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    Where do you find support  teams.
    Asked before no one had an answer
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  • rhino1rhino1 Member Posts: 32 Courageous
    Wow  thanks so much cockney rebel I've much clearer picture now. Regards Rhino1
  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    Victorad what age gap are you in please
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  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,560 Disability Gamechanger
    Two observations: 

    1) PIP is not so different from DLA. Both have always been tests of functionality and DLA caselaw is increasingly coming into play for PIP.

    2) Medical evidence rarely supports assertions around functionality. What for example can your GP say about your night time mobility or daily living needs? The best evidence you have is your own and is anecdotal. Medical evidence is useful if your diagnosis or prognosis is in dispute but otherwise it’s just the equivalent of your neighbour repeating what you told them. It maybe adds credibility to what you say but it isn’t medical evidence as such.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks for that Mike
    I know you are a pro, can you give any links to DLA case law that would be useful ?

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,560 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry I should have been more precise. What I meant was that definitions of terms used in PIP are now being refined in terms of what the definition was for DLA. So, for example, the recent PIP decision on the meaning of safety reverted the definition back to the one used for PIP. 

    Therefore it’s PIP decision which need reading not DLA ones. The best current resource is https://pipinfo.net/
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Ok thanks
    Sometimes you pro's are so used to this stuff that to try and simplify it in a way that we understand can be difficult

    My point in making this thread was to try and simplify what is a difficult process for many people

    DLA awards are now largely not relevant but the expectation of a lifetime DLA award and then having to apply for PIP with no guarantee, troubles many

    I agree that medical evidence is of limited use but for many people that is what they cling to. I have said in many posts that GP's cannot for the most part attest to a persons daily life and struggle. A diagnosis can provide the underlying cause of a lack of functionality and a list of prescibed medication can provide a certain amount of understanding especially in the case of hidden conditions. The level of pain medication for example can go a long way to confirm the level of pain a person experiances.
    I wish there was an ABC to a perfect claim but each person is different.

    I, for one, really value your input so a big Thank you from me

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,560 Disability Gamechanger
    Cheers. Your posts are measured and excellent. 

    I’d say the evidence for DLA can potentially be useful if you remember to say you want it taken into account during the conversion phone call. If nothing else it would then have to pop up in your PIP appeal papers leaving DWP with the problem of explaining specifically what had magically improved.
  • Salamka101Salamka101 Member Posts: 41 Courageous
    @CockneyRebel Transition from DLA to PIP 'troubles many' is an understatement given the figures revealed by Lord Sterling (co founder of Motability) in an open letter to McVey this week. He states that of 180,000 recipients of higher rate DLA 75,000 have lost their right to a Motability vehicle so far. That is horrific rather than worrying.
    I accept that the advice you give is well intended but it does tend to come across as somewhat sympathetic to DLA regs 

    Salamka101
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Cheers. Your posts are measured and excellent. 

    I’d say the evidence for DLA can potentially be useful if you remember to say you want it taken into account during the conversion phone call. If nothing else it would then have to pop up in your PIP appeal papers leaving DWP with the problem of explaining specifically what had magically improved.
    WOW
    Big light bulb moment
    That is the most profound thing I have heard that could be of use to change over claiments
    Do the DWP subscribe to the second coming or do they accept the Lazarus effect

    I need to think about this as something that has past me and many others by
    again a big thank you

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,560 Disability Gamechanger
    DWP should ask if you want your DLA evidence to be used when you make the conversion phone call. I’d always say yes but what should happen then is that a copy of the PIP 1 (equivalent to the old DLA part 1) should get put in the post for you to approve before a PIP 2 is posted out. It almost never does get sent out but it’s worth chasing as it will have the answer to the DLA question within it. Tribunals should also have sight of the PIP 1 and 2.

    i should be clear that it’s very unlikely your DLA decision and supporting evidence will influence the initial decision or MR but it will definitely assist at appeal.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks Mike
    A case of forewarned is forearmed

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • JurphJurph Member Posts: 346 Pioneering
    edited March 2018
    This is a great thread to read. I feel a bit better about my appeal now.

    I've been panicking about further evidence needed but the fact is I don't have any! I was given a diagnosis by a rheumatologist then discharged back to GP for management. I have allergies that stop me taking certain medications and only have a physio referral and a CBT referral (which I'm still waiting 3 months later for)

    It's impossible to give evidence that doesn't exist. I now realise that I am the evidence!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,560 Disability Gamechanger
    What a beautiful phrase. That could have saved a lot of people a lot of time. Yes, you ARE the evidence. You, your incidents; your accidents; your stories of your health. 
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    I kept all my DLA forms and evidence- at the time because I thought they would lose it.  :)
    I did use the same medical diagnosis evidence for pip because that hasn't changed.

    Reading the DLA forms back it showed what didn't fit the criteria. Seeing the forms also shows what questions have been dropped or are different. And so I probably wouldn't use the DLA forms as evidence- because they don't fit. 

    I was indefinite, but maybe that's not the best way of looking at people. In two years time my issues are expected to still be present.  I will be the same, or worse. If indefinite you are almost forgotten about? 

    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 949 Pioneering
    @mikehughescq They sent me a copy of my PIP1 last time, and it was riddled with errors. I called up with a list to correct them, and they said it didn't matter. *DID* it matter?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,560 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes, it definitely matters as it contains the very basic stuff like diagnosis; GP; whether you want your DLA claim to be taken into account. You have a right to have it corrected under the Data Protection Act and you have a right to have it included in any appeal papers.


  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 949 Pioneering
  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 469 Pioneering
    I first applied for DLA about 20yrs ago. Could I ask for any medical report that was given at the time ?
    would it help in a manditory reconsideration ?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,560 Disability Gamechanger
    Well you could but I can’t see that they could justify retaining it under the Data Protection Act. And no, I can’t see how it could possibly help.
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