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Hi, my name is HELEN B PIP over ruled court

HELENBEHARALLHELENBEHARALL Member Posts: 9 Listener
edited April 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
HI. First post. HERE I GO. !!   I went to court in 2015 and won my case and was awarded high rate on both care and mobility. I have just had an early review and my conditions have become worse on both care and mobility, but as I was on the highest award I just said NO CHANGE because there was no point in going for more when I was already on the highest.  ( makes sense to me ) Well they have now April 2018 lowered my care component to the lower one. Can they over rule the court decision ?? Confused. Has anyone had this problem or knows what to do next? I just don't want to end up going to court every 2 or 3 years, its makes me ill. Many Thanks Helen

Replies

  • JennysDadJennysDad Member Posts: 2,308 Pioneering
    Hello Helen @HELENBEHARALL and a warm welcome to the community. Glad to have you with us, but so sorry to hear you are being put through all this. Sometimes the mind boggles.
    Others will no doubt comment in due course, but I think your best source of information here will be one of our benefits advisors. Bear with us, and they will be in touch with you as soon as possible.
    In the meantime, please don't hesitate to come back to us if there is any other way in which we might be of service to you.
    Warmest best wishes,
    Richard
  • HELENBEHARALLHELENBEHARALL Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Thank you. Will they contact me on this site or by my email address. Sorry I'm new to all of this. I went to a real court with a legal representative, a doctor and Ss representative. I am so confused to how PIP can override the courts decision. My care points were 15 and now they have been reduced to 9 even though I am now in poorer health than when I went to court. Many thanks for your help Helen 
  • JennysDadJennysDad Member Posts: 2,308 Pioneering
    Hello Helen, @HELENBEHARALL and yes, they will contact you via this thread. You're doing fine :smile: And, of course, we understand entirely what you are saying.
    Bear with us and stay in touch,
    Warmest best wishes, always,
    Richard
  • Lynne53Lynne53 Member Posts: 52 Courageous
    Hi Helen and well done on a clear first post. I get tongue tied in my fingers in my posts. The DWP can and do try everything but thanks to people like we have on this site we can learn how to challenge these decisions. Don't lose heart, while there are amazing places like this to get help we can fight back. I am sorry though that your health has deteriorated.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi helen

    PIP runs from decision to decision and the only people that decide when a new decision is made is the DWP. So the simple answer is yes by remaking a decision the DWP can over rule a tribunal decision.
    I am sure you know the proceedure of challenging via MR and appeal

    CR

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • HELENBEHARALLHELENBEHARALL Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Thank you. Well here goes AGAIN !! back to court. I guess its going to be a 2-3 year on-going  battle, the same battle until I'm not well enough to fight. So they will win in the end. The court gave me 15 points for care the review gave me 9. Not sure why I've lost 6 points when I've really got much worse not better. I'm on serious drugs, one of only a handful on Ketamine, also on morphine, lignocaine, and a new strong opiate Tapentadol at the highest dose allowed in UK  and IM injections of pain killers and anti sickness  from nurses 24/7 every day of the year.  And even if I win I've only got two years before they do the review one year before the end of the benefit. Its enough to make you give up. I've worked and paid all my taxes and national insurance since I was 16 years old. and I feel I am  treated as a criminal begging for hand-outs. Well that's off my chest now, feel a little better. Best Wishes Helen
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,002 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2018
    I’ve noted a number of people on here have advised others to say “no change” on such reviews. It’s very poor advice. In most cases what you’re actually saying is “I am offering you no evidence as to the current circumstances around my impairment”. When you claim/reclaim PIP the burden of proof is on you to show entitlement rather than DWP. “No change” is an easy option and understandably tempting but at best DWP will say “we have nothing current here so let’s invite them to a face to face consultation”. At worst they’ll say “okay then, you’ve given us nothing current to suggest PIP entitlement” so we need to remove it.

    The better advice is always to retain a copy of anything you complete and, use it word for word where nothing has changed and amended as needed if it has. Grateful as people are to get an award, if you have a lifelong or degenerative condition, then you should always challenge anything less than an ongoing award. 

    So, this time around it’s MR and probably appeal. Next time you’ll know to approach it a wholly different way. Bear in mind by the way that stronger or different meds are not a good argument for retention of PIP. They’re actually an argument for a shorter award to see how the meds impact functionality. 


  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

    Hello Helen

    As posted above it is about (unfortunately) going through the process of challenging the PIP decision.

    It is also worth mentioning (although it rarely happens) is that a tribunal can also consider the points already awarded. So just in case be prepared to also argue why the 9 points should also remain.

    The tribunal can decide to award PIP for a longer period such as 5-10 years when a change in a persons condition is less likely . They can also to decide to make an award without giving an end date. It is therefore worth asking  a tribunal to consider the length of the award they make as well as increasing your award.

    We wish you luck.

      Maria

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • HELENBEHARALLHELENBEHARALL Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Thank you for your advice and guidance. I've just been to see citizens advice and now I am even more confused. I know that it would have been a better choice to fill in the review form the opposite to what I did. Ie instead of no change because I was on the higher level I should have put change as I had actually got worse. In my head and I was also helped by an advisor filling in the form to say NO CHANGE because I couldn't get a higher award.. I am now spinning as I have three different advisors giving me different advice. All convinced that they are right.  I filled for MR. as I did a couple of years ago so that will come back NO CHANGE. So I guess it's back to court. And as I've just learned that can be overruled by the next review. Never ending circles.... Best wishes Helen. 
  • GizmoTiddlesGizmoTiddles Member Posts: 129 Pioneering
    Very  best of luck with your MR 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2018
    As they say too many cooks spoil the broth
    Pick one advisor ond stick with them

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • HELENBEHARALLHELENBEHARALL Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Sent off my MR today. Not holding out much hope. But it could have been worse. At least I am only questioning my care and not mobility as I am still on the higher level. I am really sorry for anyone else who has had worse reviews than me. I had to go through this three years ago in court and it's a bit of deja view xxxxxxxxx
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,002 Disability Gamechanger
    Do you have three different advisers or have you just seen three different people at the same agency?
  • HELENBEHARALLHELENBEHARALL Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Hi. Disability Direct filled in my review form " no change"  ..because I was on the higher awards and couldn't get any higher. MADE SENSE at the time... Citizen advise said I should have said "change" and then sent evidence, I did even though I said NO CHANGE send in some new consultant evidence of my deterioration.  Still lost 6 points???? , was on 15 (from the court  tribunal in 2015 ) now 9 points for my care in my review.  I had a home visit. How can I lose 6 points for care when I now have deteriorated since my court tribunal in 2015. Has this happened to anyone else. I suppose it could have been worse because I could be fighting mobility as well. Helen x
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,002 Disability Gamechanger
    Ah right. A benefit tourist :)

    You need to pick one agency and stick with them. Multiple agencies advising simultaneously makes it hard for you and impossible for advice agencies.
  • HELENBEHARALLHELENBEHARALL Member Posts: 9 Listener
    What's a benefit tourist! Are you saying I should not be using this site as well. Helen 

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    This site is really for general shared information
    In general it is better to stick with one f2f advice service to avoid confusion as each have their own methods,

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,002 Disability Gamechanger
    What's a benefit tourist! Are you saying I should not be using this site as well. Helen 

    It was a joke. Thus the smiley :)
  • HELENBEHARALLHELENBEHARALL Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Hi. Please could someone tell me if at MR can they lower the number of points as well as increase them. I've lost 6 points on my care and now have 9. Is it worth chasing up for 3 points. Am I possibly going to end up worse off by appealing ? Also please is it a good idea to challenge the length of the award as well? as my spine consultant has documented that I will never improve and that I am unfit for employment in the foreseeable future. Many thanks for all your help and support. Helen x
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi Helen

    Any challenge to a decision can lower points as well as increase them.
    It is unusual for an MR to lower points but it does happen

    If you belive that you deserve a higher award and meet the criteria then you really must challenge it all the way.

    Tribunal appeals are independant with a success rate of around 69%

    Many people have conditions that are life long and deteriorating but all PIP awards are subject to review, sometimes this is due to an expectation of a condition getting better but also if a condition is likely to get worse then reviews are held to make sure you are on the correct level of benefit, so challenging the length of an award is seldom successful

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
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