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Advice on what evidence to send?

EllieStar1989EllieStar1989 Member Posts: 45 Connected
edited April 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
I Am appealing my pip 
waiting to go to court 
i recently joined a new doctors surgery And joined there online patient thing And I noticed it says all mt medical records right back to the age of 3 it's all listed all mu mental health problems behaviour problems all my physical problems and no all my hospital visits also mentions the help I need the possible stroke I had and I wonder can I send this all in for evidence 
i also worry it will be used against me because there are things wrote in like to say I took my nephew out to nursery he is a year old my sister got him dressed got him in the buggy And I walked for
about 5 minutes and sat on a chair while he played and the woman running the nursery was also watching him I felt anxious and didn't speak to anyone's while there I was claiming for mental health and a few physical but not mobility but I know how everything is used against us 

Replies

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi EllieStar

    Tribunals are only interested in How your conditions affect your functionality

    Have you had the bundle from the DWP ?
    Have you entered your own submission ?

    Recently posted by esteemed member regarding evidence

    good quality evidence” not “good quality medical evidence”. If your diagnosis is not in doubt then nor will the symptoms be. However, two people with the same medical conditions and same symptoms will both be affected in different ways for many reasons. PIP want to know whether you can perform specific activities reliably, safely, repeatedly and to a reasonable standard. If you can’t then do you need aids/appliances, prompting or assistance? PIP, like DLA, doesn’t require a diagnosis. It just requires real symptoms. if that’s not in doubt then what they need, and what claimants consistently fail to focus on, is the precise impact of those symptoms. Please don’t come back and say that should be obvious. It really isn’t. Everyone is different. You can have people who push through pain and people who psychologically would never be capable of that. You can have people who rate their pain as a 5 but can’t lift a pan and people who rate their pain an 8 who can. Good luck finding a consultant or GP with first hand knowledge of your ability to lift pans! If you don’t tell them then they don’t know.

    Does your GP have meals with you? Does your GP bathe you? Does your GP go to the toilet with you? Does your GP sleep over and know what you’re like overnight? If they don’t, and I’m guessing they don’t, then they have no useful evidence to offer on the very things PIP wants to know. 

    The best evidence on the things PIP need to know is your own anecdotal evidence. Why specifically can’t you prepare food? What happened the last time you tried? When was that? Who witnessed it? Where did you have to go when you burnt yourself? Why isn’t it in your medical records? Those boxes for any “extra information”! That’s where the anecdotal stuff goes and if you don’t fill then with up to date anecdotal information then you’re instantly operating with one arm behind your back. Norton2018 said:

    I symptoms vary, like all conditions, from person to person so it always comes back to the anecdotal stuff.

    People complain repeatedly on here that HCPs and tribunals ask irrelevant questions. They absolutely don’t. They are wholly focused on the functional consequences of your symptoms and pulling anecdotal evidence out of people who think some letters from people with letters after their name should always be enough. 

    52% of DLA/PIP claims succeed without any medical evidence whatsoever. There’s no evidence, literally none, that the other 48% of successful claims succeed because of any medical evidence submitted. 

    i would say there’s lots of merit in focused medical evidence for mental ill health but otherwise you need to ask yourself specifically what gap will be filled by GP or other medical evidence. If you can’t identify a specific gap...

    Incidentally, whether we like it or not, the onus is on the claimant to evidence their entitlement at the claim stage. There’s no onus on DWP to gain evidebvr in your behalf in most circumstances.

    We all know the HCP process is flawed. The mistake people make repeatedly is to think that they individually can fix that. “Maybe if I take my consultants letters on the day?” “Maybe if I take someone who knows me?” “Maybe if I record the assessment?” Any or all of those things may assist in giving less weight to the outcome of a HCP assessment but they almost never change the outcome of the assessment itself at the assessment stage.

     Similarly, only 16% of decisions are being changed at the MR stage so again the problem is not necessarily your evidence but the poor process for assessing it. Once a claim fails people blame themselves and think “More evidence. That’ll change their mind.” Of course there are some circumstances where that is true but just as often the process is the issue and most people say in one breath that they understand anecdotal evidence is important but continue to mentally think that everything will change if their GP or consultant or whoever just says x. So, if you’re correct and you already have a load of anecdotal evidence then stick with that at the appeal stage. The CA stuff you’re quoting is generic information. It’s a vague general principle type of thing. Not universally applicable.

    I’ve already explained why GP evidence is largely irrelevant unless diagnosis or symptoms are in dispute so I won’t repeat that but it’s also worth knowing that most claimants have no means of assessing the worth of such evidence and often submit evidence from a GP which actually harms their case. WROs used to request such evidence; assess it if it ever came and not submit it if it was detrimental. Nowadays you can’t do that. Tribunals want everything on record.

    So if I wrote to a GP then my letter and the response have to go into the appeal papers whether or not the response is helpful. If you get GP or other medical evidence and you get advice that it’s not helpful you actually have a big big problem if you then withhold that and the tribunal request your medical records and then come across that letter. Your evidence will be instantly less credible.

    So, to take your specific point, an approach that something is better than nothing and must be “surely helpful” is dangerous. Focus in on the gaps in your anecdotal evidence. What specifically can a GP add re: specific activities? If they can’t then leave well alone and trust your evidence and the tribunal. If you’re not sure then you need face to face advice and in any event you’d be well advised to get representation.


    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • EllieStar1989EllieStar1989 Member Posts: 45 Connected
    This is a summary from my medical records that I accessed by logging into the patient access to medical records. I don't know if I actually requested my medical notes if it would have more information. I have read through it and taken bits out of it. I didn't want to show it all as there is quite a lot. It mentions all my suicide attempts and overdoses. It mentions all the times I have been to a and e and all the times I was admitted to the psych ward. It mentions I have self harmed since I was 12. It mentions that I have anxiety attacks. It says I have a depressed mood, poor appetite, psychomotor agitation and that I am impulsive. It mentions that I was a victim of domestic violence, I suffer from headaches, insomnia, I was diagnosed with behaviour and mental health problems at age 3. I have had asthma since age 6. It states I have bpd. There is a letter from the hospital to my doctor saying i had an appointment for a ct head scan but it was cancelled because I made no contact. I honestly never got any letter. That's why I made no contact. It says I have recurring uti's. It says I isolate and spend a lot of time in bed. It says I can't relax, I get anxious if the phone rings or the door bell. It says I appear cold and clammy. I have fibroids and sciatica. I have generalised anxiety disorder. It mentions that I hear voices. It mentions all the abuse I went through as a child. Mentions my eye contact is poor, speech is slow and quiet, I wring my hands and pick at my skin. It says I can't use public transport. It mentions my sister cares for me by helping with personal care, cooking and keeping my medication safe so I don't overdose on it. It also mentions how my headaches cause blurred vision and dizziness.
  • EllieStar1989EllieStar1989 Member Posts: 45 Connected

    What bundle from the dwp? I have a copy of the assessors report. I have my decision letter. My sister filled the form in for me and added an extra page explaining everything I struggle with and everything she has to help me with. I am diagnosed with a lot of stuff. I have treatment for what I am diagnosed with. I have symptoms. I can't do things safety, in a reasonable time and without pain and I told them that and I was still denied. I have told my gp how I struggle. I have mentioned the help I need. I told the pip how I shake all the time, I sweat so much it's impossible to grib anything. I drop thing. I get blurred vision. I can't bend down. I am dizzy and exhausted all the time. I don't go anywhere when I burn myself. It's not a serve burn. I just run by fingers under cold water. What's ca ? 

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,930 Disability Gamechanger
    This is a summary from my medical records that I accessed by logging into the patient access to medical records. I don't know if I actually requested my medical notes if it would have more information. I have read through it and taken bits out of it. I didn't want to show it all as there is quite a lot. It mentions all my suicide attempts and overdoses. It mentions all the times I have been to a and e and all the times I was admitted to the psych ward. It mentions I have self harmed since I was 12. It mentions that I have anxiety attacks. It says I have a depressed mood, poor appetite, psychomotor agitation and that I am impulsive. It mentions that I was a victim of domestic violence, I suffer from headaches, insomnia, I was diagnosed with behaviour and mental health problems at age 3. I have had asthma since age 6. It states I have bpd. There is a letter from the hospital to my doctor saying i had an appointment for a ct head scan but it was cancelled because I made no contact. I honestly never got any letter. That's why I made no contact. It says I have recurring uti's. It says I isolate and spend a lot of time in bed. It says I can't relax, I get anxious if the phone rings or the door bell. It says I appear cold and clammy. I have fibroids and sciatica. I have generalised anxiety disorder. It mentions that I hear voices. It mentions all the abuse I went through as a child. Mentions my eye contact is poor, speech is slow and quiet, I wring my hands and pick at my skin. It says I can't use public transport. It mentions my sister cares for me by helping with personal care, cooking and keeping my medication safe so I don't overdose on it. It also mentions how my headaches cause blurred vision and dizziness.
    Selectively quoting from your own medical records will only harm your claim and undermine your credibility. You don’t get to pick or choose your evidence to suit. Either it all goes in or none. Your call. 

    I’m the person quoted by @CockneyRebel above. Please re-read that post re: evidence. That’s all you need to know. 

    CA is Citizens Advice in this context.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq I hope you don't mind me quoting your excellent advice

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,930 Disability Gamechanger
    Not at all. I wish I’d been bright enough to save it somewhere in order to periodically bring it out and paste it in. What this place really needs is a restriction on new threads which repeat old topics that have already been answered and then some.
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Maybe they need a library of sorts with various sections for different questions, a big task but would help.

    just a thought
  • EllieStar1989EllieStar1989 Member Posts: 45 Connected
    I was not picking what I wanted to show I only showed some here because I didn't want to upload it all here I send everything to the court 
    I am thinking it's hopeless me even trying to get pip I will never be able to prove my struggles to them 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you had a letter of acknowledgement from the tribunal ?

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • EllieStar1989EllieStar1989 Member Posts: 45 Connected
    I think so i am told I am waiting for a day in court and it could be months away I was taken off pip in November of last year 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Is your sister dealing with all your paperwork ?

    You can ring the tribunal clerk for an update on waiting time in your area

    Having sent an SSCS1 you should have received a letter from the tribunal accepting your appeal.
    Then you should receive a bundle of paperwork from the DWP which is all the evidence used to make their decision

    Has your sister had these ?

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • EllieStar1989EllieStar1989 Member Posts: 45 Connected
    I got the copy of the assessor report. The last time I rang the waiting list for my area was 25 weeks, which from that date worked out to be September. The court accepted my appeal. I have the mr decision from them but I don't have anything else 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    You should have received the bundle of evidence by now. You need this to make sure that all your evidence has been included.
    You should ring the tribunal and ask for it,. Normally this is what you use to prepare you own case and enter your submission

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • EllieStar1989EllieStar1989 Member Posts: 45 Connected
    I went to citizen advice they filled the paper work in 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    its just a waiting game now then

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
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