PIP, DLA and AA
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Why are PIP and ESA descriptors different?

pugwashpugwash Member Posts: 2 Listener
edited May 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA

Hello

I am due to have my PIP face to face very shortly.

I am concerned after providing a large amount of medical information, having 3 spinal operations,

The doctors and physiotherapists say there is nothing further they can do, leaving me in constant pain.

I won my ESA appeal for mobility, after my solicitor from Citizens advice used case law GL V SSWP 503, which states if you are in constant pain then the mobility aspect is covered and 15 points is awarded.

However with PIP they do not accept this case law, according to NAWRA they claim PIP descriptors are taken from the ESA descriptors so why is this not the same and the mobility aspect of the claim is covered.

Replies

  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    Someone else will have to answer this better. Case law is over my head I'm afraid.

    You don't need to supply loads of medical evidence for pip. You supply the medical evidence you have and any medication to show the condition you have exists- because they don't usually contact anyone you include on the forms. 
    Then you show how you are effected with the descriptors they ask because of the condition. 

    In a nutshell because they are different benefits.
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1486-what-is-esa

    Esa descriptors are in relation to whether or not you could hold down a job and do a WCA.
    Pip is about how you function day to day and do an assessment.

    There is also a difference between esa wrag and support group. I think the wrag requires you to score 15, but the SG requires you to satisfy those descriptors and it's not points based. I accept any correction here because I only just figured this out!

    Pip will ask you if you get any other benefits and being in the SG doesn't mean you will get pip.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,352 Disability Gamechanger
    PIP is about loss of functional ability regardless of whether you’re fit for work or not. ESA is solely about loss if functional ability to the extent that you could not perform work-related tasks (rather than a specific job). 

    ESA involves a medical assessment. PIP involves a discussion about the extent of your functional abilities. 

    Whilst there is some common ground between the 2 lots of descriptors there is nothing identical and it wouldn’t make sense for there to be. I am wholly unaware that NAWRA have ever said that the PIP descriptors are deruved from the ESA ones. Could you provide a link for that please?

    Incidentally there is a PIP decision which provides the equivalent to your ESA argument. Try http://administrativeappeals.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk//judgmentfiles/j4916/CPIP%200665%202016-00.doc

    Of more immediate concern is your concentration on medical evidence for PIP. Unless your diagnosis is in doubt they will be largely irrelevant. You need to identify the points you think you score on and then set a king dexrubing examples of what’s happened in the past when you’ve undertaken those activities. 
  • pugwashpugwash Member Posts: 2 Listener

    Hello Mike

    Thank you for the info, I was quoting the nawra consultation Aug 2013 page 5 quotes.

    4.2. Employment and Support Allowance ESA is the template for PIP in both process and broad design although the purpose of the benefit is very different and it aims to measure "limited capability for work" rather than limitations with daily living and mobility tasks"

    http://www.nawra.org.uk/wordpress/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/NAWRA-PIP-Mobility-Consultation-Aug-13-final.pdf.

    Thanks for the advice.

  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    You've just answered your own question.

    The purpose of the benefit is different and it aims to measure "limited capability for work" rather than limitations with daily living and mobility tasks"

    So they won't be hand in hand the same.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
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