PIP, DLA and AA
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Changing from DLA to PIP - they're saying they didn't receive my form in time

gummyjgummyj Member Posts: 2 Listener
edited May 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
Ive recently been denied pip transferred from dla because they say they didn't receive my form intime and still haven't ,but they contacted my local council about council tax/rent awards 4 days before writing to me refusing my clain   .ive phoned pip asked for a reassessment and new form he sounded helpful and denied being with atos.. i went through same thing changing to esa the other year .but tat took over 12 month to finally appeal but they wouldnt back date .ie lost a years of benifits .ive only just got creditors out my hair ..now im magically cured and can cope on 45% less money.. i suffer from Lumbar spondylosis  osteoarthritis heart condition depression... i cant believe pip/atos have had no human right action taken .its a disgrace how they the disabled

Replies

  • JennysDadJennysDad Member Posts: 2,308 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello Gary @gummyj and a warm welcome to the community. Good to have you with us, though I'm sorry to hear that you, too, have been put through so much trauma.
    You are far from alone, of course, which may not help much, but we have many members here who will know exactly 'where you are coming from'. Some of them, I'm sure, will be along in due course (weekends can sometimes be a bit quiet) and you might like to have a look at the Talk about PIP/DLA thread where you'll find others with similar stories to tell. If you take a look there at the 'Read Me: PIP frequently asked questions' you'll also find links to information on the appeals process.
    Hope that helps. Don't hesitate to get back to us.
    Warmest best wishes,
    Richard
    @JennysDad
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello gummyj

    I was sorry to read about the frustrating time that you have had with the transfer from DLA to PIP.

    Unfortunately if DLA has stopped then it will be  a new claim for PIP which I guess is the process that you are now going through.

    If a form has been sent but not received then generally PIP send out a letter enquiring if the form will be returned before any decision is made to stop DLA entitlement. I take it that you did not receive any letter from PIP about the return of your PIP application form? It will be interesting to see what information PIP received and what letters they sent to you.  You can request a copy of your benefit file from DLA/PIP by sending a letter to the DWP asking for a copy of your file. This is called a subject access request.  DWP may then send  a form to you asking what specific period and what information you want.  Your request maybe that you want all copies of notes on phone calls/letters/forms/reports received by the DWP and sent to you from just before the transfer process began to the present. 

    Good luck and please post again if you need further assistance.

    Maria

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @gummyj

    Always send any correspondence to the DWP by recorded delivery as they are notorious for mislaying letters.  Write 'recorded delivery' on the letter, too. Tell them you sent it by recorded delivery and miraculously they'll find the 'lost ' item.
  • Laura99Laura99 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
    i agree. All letters and forms to the DWP should be sent Recorded Delivery, so they can't 'lose' them.

    Have you got a benefits advisor to help you with this? It is frustrating and demeaning to have to go through this mess without help.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,537 Disability Gamechanger
    I think we’ve been here before. Letters to the DWP go to private companies who sort the mail and scan it for uploading to DWP systems. Literally anyone can sign for a recorded delivery letter and they are often signed by security guards working for the private companies etc. You are literally throwing good money away with no proof of anything in return. Tribunals repeatedly hold that both recorded delivery and special delivery are proof of nothing in these circumstances.

    The better route is to trust the postal service but always keep a full and clear copy of what you send in as well as a photograph of it going into the envelope.

    Note that on your new form you should ask for it to be treated as a late form and explicitly reference the fact that the first one went in on time.

    The only thing which doesn’t make sense is PIP contacting the LA. That doesn’t happen. It does for ESA refusals but not for PIP.
  • Laura99Laura99 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
    I didn't realise that. I can see what you mean about keeping clear copies.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,537 Disability Gamechanger
    Lots of people on forums obsess over things which change nothing.

    ”If only assessments were recorded then I could prove...”

    ”If I sent it recorded delivery then that proves...”

    Nope.
  • gummyjgummyj Member Posts: 2 Listener
    This is ATOS all over again ..picking on those who cant defend or difficulties helping  them selves what about the disability right act 2010. or Disability Discrimination Act 1995 . has anyone found a way of these helping . but until we have scores more committing suicide .didn't the powers that be not learn anything after the ATOS fiasco 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    gummyj said:
    This is ATOS all over again ..picking on those who cant defend or difficulties helping  them selves what about the disability right act 2010. or Disability Discrimination Act 1995 . has anyone found a way of these helping . but until we have scores more committing suicide .didn't the powers that be not learn anything after the ATOS fiasco 

    Whatever happens everyone will blame everybody else. The DWP will blame ATOS and ATOS will blame the DWP as they wrote the guidance that they work to.
    Who then is at fault here? No one it seems.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,537 Disability Gamechanger
    Post goes missing. Before you get to private companies and DWP you have the Royal Mail. This is a company who measure the amount of missing post solely against complaints. Your post may have gone missing but if you didn’t firmallt complain then your post was delivered. I think it’s a push to assume DWP et al have anything to do with the majority of documents which go missing. It’s another reason why it’s somewhat ironic to pay the most likely culprit to track something where there’s no legal requirement to deliver it to the addressee (recorded delivery). Paranoia and a lack of understanding leads people down some very odd blind alleys.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Post goes missing. Before you get to private companies and DWP you have the Royal Mail. This is a company who measure the amount of missing post solely against complaints. Your post may have gone missing but if you didn’t firmallt complain then your post was delivered. I think it’s a push to assume DWP et al have anything to do with the majority of documents which go missing. It’s another reason why it’s somewhat ironic to pay the most likely culprit to track something where there’s no legal requirement to deliver it to the addressee (recorded delivery). Paranoia and a lack of understanding leads people down some very odd blind alleys.
    I had an argument way back with a friend of a friend who worked for the DWP and the subject of 'lost post' was mentioned - that is post that the DWP say they sent.
    Apparently they have it written down in the regulations that if it is recorded as sent to the claimant, it is assumed that it is delivered within 48 hours. According to this individual post never gets lost - claimants just use it as an excuse. 

    However when posting something to the DWP you don't get the same protection. If it is not received by the DWP it is assumed that the claimant is telling porkie pies!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,537 Disability Gamechanger
    Not quite right but not far off. There is a legal principle rather than an actual regulation and DWP don’t write anything. Certain pages within their software can be printed off and used to demonstrate that the button was pressed to send a letter. Tribunals vary in their take on this. 

    Sad that someone works for the DWP and thinks it’s somewhere in their regulations. That does kind of tell you something about their internal culture. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited May 2018
    Not quite right but not far off. There is a legal principle rather than an actual regulation and DWP don’t write anything. Certain pages within their software can be printed off and used to demonstrate that the button was pressed to send a letter. Tribunals vary in their take on this. 

    Sad that someone works for the DWP and thinks it’s somewhere in their regulations. That does kind of tell you something about their internal culture. 

    Thanks Mike for clarifying it for me.
    Mind you it would be interesting to know what the percentage is where Tribunals simply accept the statement made by the DWP that a letter/form was sent so it must have been delivered (thus the onus of proof lies with the claimant to show that on balance it was not received). 

    To resolve this maybe the DWP ought to revert back to the days of file jackets where all actions were recorded on the front cover showing who did what and when.
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