PIP, DLA and AA
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Is it worth appealing?

dandm917dandm917 Member Posts: 4 Listener
Hi,

My wife recently applied for PIP for mental health issues (severe anxiety and depression) and other conditions not really relevant to our question so I'll not list them here.

We recently received a text stating that the DWP had received the assessment and would reach I decision within two weeks. I phoned on her behalf to request this and we have since received.

The assessor was lovely and the report is fair to be honest. But the one question I expected her to score high on was 

Planning and following journeys

She scored 0 for this which was a bit of a shock as she cannot leave the house without myself due to her anxiety.

In the justification she even says. "She never goes out alone due to anxiety and will only leave the house with her husband to attend appointments"

Is it worth putting in a MR or just accept the award which will be lower rate mobility and daily living if they go by the assessment.

Thanks for any help

Replies

  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    There is a slight risk that DWP could award lower points at MR but in practice most MRs keep the award the same.  If you think your current award is safe from reduction and that your wife is entitled to enhanced, then go for MR.  Only 20% of MRs succeed but 69% of tribunal appeals do.

    I was awarded standard both after assessment, increased to enhanced both at appeal hearing.
  • littleruthie123littleruthie123 Member Posts: 490 Pioneering
    Typical example how they disregard people's mental health conditions .keep seeing it over and over again.I would speak up as the principal is wrong .and they haven't acted fairly .good luck either way 
  • dandm917dandm917 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Well thank you both for your replies.

    We will submit the MR when we get the award letter and keep you updated.

    Thanks
  • dandm917dandm917 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Just thought I’d come back with an update, we only received the decision letter last week. We’d received the back payment before the letter.
    They went with the assessment as expected but did give a longer award than suggested.
    MR has now been submitted by post. We did have a recording of the assessment that will be transcribed but didn’t really find it necessary to use/reference it, but we did mention we had this.
    Instead we decided to point out the contradictions in the assessment and the chosen descriptors. As we felt all the information was included in the assessment, just slightly misconstrued...
    We’re not holding our breath but hopefully it shouldn’t take too long as it only took 4 months from application to first payment.


  • JazCoJazCo Member Posts: 48 Courageous
    dandm917 said:
    Just thought I’d come back with an update, we only received the decision letter last week. We’d received the back payment before the letter.
    They went with the assessment as expected but did give a longer award than suggested.
    MR has now been submitted by post. We did have a recording of the assessment that will be transcribed but didn’t really find it necessary to use/reference it, but we did mention we had this.
    Instead we decided to point out the contradictions in the assessment and the chosen descriptors. As we felt all the information was included in the assessment, just slightly misconstrued...
    We’re not holding our breath but hopefully it shouldn’t take too long as it only took 4 months from application to first payment.


    Hi,would you mind giving an update with how your MR went?
  • dandm917dandm917 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    JazCo said:
    Hi,would you mind giving an update with how your MR went?
    Sure, as expected really and they stood by the original decision...

    Ive submitted the appeal yesterday via the online  form they’re trialing across the Midlands.

    I’ve basically said it seems it was changed to be fairer for people suffering with mental health but then ignored by the DWP.

    We will see how we get on, we won’t get any updates until after the hearing as my Wife can’t attend due to anxiety.

    But will be back then to update on the final outcome, I won’t hold my breath! 

    Thanks
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,544 Disability Gamechanger
    dandm917 said:
    Hi,

    My wife recently applied for PIP for mental health issues (severe anxiety and depression) and other conditions not really relevant to our question so I'll not list them here.

    We recently received a text stating that the DWP had received the assessment and would reach I decision within two weeks. I phoned on her behalf to request this and we have since received.

    The assessor was lovely and the report is fair to be honest. But the one question I expected her to score high on was 

    Planning and following journeys

    She scored 0 for this which was a bit of a shock as she cannot leave the house without myself due to her anxiety.

    In the justification she even says. "She never goes out alone due to anxiety and will only leave the house with her husband to attend appointments"

    Is it worth putting in a MR or just accept the award which will be lower rate mobility and daily living if they go by the assessment.

    Thanks for any help
    If you look through the PIP activities then what you have described scores 4 points under 1b. 
  • JazCoJazCo Member Posts: 48 Courageous
    dandm917 said:
    Hi,

    My wife recently applied for PIP for mental health issues (severe anxiety and depression) and other conditions not really relevant to our question so I'll not list them here.

    We recently received a text stating that the DWP had received the assessment and would reach I decision within two weeks. I phoned on her behalf to request this and we have since received.

    The assessor was lovely and the report is fair to be honest. But the one question I expected her to score high on was 

    Planning and following journeys

    She scored 0 for this which was a bit of a shock as she cannot leave the house without myself due to her anxiety.

    In the justification she even says. "She never goes out alone due to anxiety and will only leave the house with her husband to attend appointments"

    Is it worth putting in a MR or just accept the award which will be lower rate mobility and daily living if they go by the assessment.

    Thanks for any help
    If you look through the PIP activities then what you have described scores 4 points under 1b. 
    I assume you meant 11b. Im not sure where you have gotten 4 points from re planning and following a journey. 4 points implies that his wife can undertake a journey by herself but needs encouragement. The man's wife cannot undergo a journey absolutely without him physically with her. Which falls under 11d,e or f.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,544 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry, long week already.

    Yes, 4 points under 1b.

    D and f are about the ability to follow a route once you are out there. Nothing posted suggests they apply. B and e are the only possible ones which could apply as they are the only ones which relate to undertaking a journey in the first place. She can’t leave the house without prompting. Anxiety is not automatically overwhelming psychological distress. Once she has left the house with her partner what is the evidence she would be unable to get from one place to another? None has been posted. 
  • JazCoJazCo Member Posts: 48 Courageous
    You say b and e are the only possible ones she could get based on that information- what you described makes sense to me now- so in your opinion, why did you only offer b 4 points instead of e based on the description?
  • JazCoJazCo Member Posts: 48 Courageous
    Sorry, long week already.

    Yes, 4 points under 1b.

    D and f are about the ability to follow a route once you are out there. Nothing posted suggests they apply. B and e are the only possible ones which could apply as they are the only ones which relate to undertaking a journey in the first place. She can’t leave the house without prompting. Anxiety is not automatically overwhelming psychological distress. Once she has left the house with her partner what is the evidence she would be unable to get from one place to another? None has been posted. 
    I mis read. You think the lady deserves 4 or 10 at best based on description. O feel like she deserves 12 if she cannot undertake or follow any journey without her husband. I'm wondering about our distinctions as you seem to understand better than me the descriptors and its helpful as it's probably how the assessors view them.

    What for you would warrant the 12 pointer in regards to mental health?
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    JazCo said:

    What for you would warrant the 12 pointer in regards to mental health?
    Isn't that like putting the cart before the horse? Surely you look at the ability then try to pitch it against one of the descriptors.

    Looking at the points first then trying to find a reason why it should be granted is doing it backwards.

    Maybe I am wrong, I don't know. When I completed my claims in the past I wrote about the issues and the impact AND then looked to see what points it would get me.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,544 Disability Gamechanger
    JazCo said:
    Sorry, long week already.

    Yes, 4 points under 1b.

    D and f are about the ability to follow a route once you are out there. Nothing posted suggests they apply. B and e are the only possible ones which could apply as they are the only ones which relate to undertaking a journey in the first place. She can’t leave the house without prompting. Anxiety is not automatically overwhelming psychological distress. Once she has left the house with her partner what is the evidence she would be unable to get from one place to another? None has been posted. 
    I mis read. You think the lady deserves 4 or 10 at best based on description. O feel like she deserves 12 if she cannot undertake or follow any journey without her husband. I'm wondering about our distinctions as you seem to understand better than me the descriptors and its helpful as it's probably how the assessors view them.

    What for you would warrant the 12 pointer in regards to mental health?
    12 points are not in play, She has no described difficulty that I’ve seen in terms of navigating, which is what following means in this context. The only thing in play is whether ot not prompting is needed to undertake a journey. I’ve already explained why B and not E.
  • JazCoJazCo Member Posts: 48 Courageous
    JazCo said:
    Sorry, long week already.

    Yes, 4 points under 1b.

    D and f are about the ability to follow a route once you are out there. Nothing posted suggests they apply. B and e are the only possible ones which could apply as they are the only ones which relate to undertaking a journey in the first place. She can’t leave the house without prompting. Anxiety is not automatically overwhelming psychological distress. Once she has left the house with her partner what is the evidence she would be unable to get from one place to another? None has been posted. 
    I mis read. You think the lady deserves 4 or 10 at best based on description. O feel like she deserves 12 if she cannot undertake or follow any journey without her husband. I'm wondering about our distinctions as you seem to understand better than me the descriptors and its helpful as it's probably how the assessors view them.

    What for you would warrant the 12 pointer in regards to mental health?
    12 points are not in play, She has no described difficulty that I’ve seen in terms of navigating, which is what following means in this context. The only thing in play is whether ot not prompting is needed to undertake a journey. I’ve already explained why B and not E.
    After seeking advice from benefits advisors, it is apparent that actually the 12 pointer is not about the ability to navigate. It is purely about being able to go from point A - B without another person or aid. They explained that this 2as the exact type of case that lead to courts forcing the DWP to change their criteria and questions regarding mobility in that section.
    A person who feels unable to go places because of severe anxiety and distress without someone with them, qualifies, under the law for the enhanced rate - navigation skills is not at play here as a person with social anxiety could navigate perfectly fine in a car on their own as it doesn't involve  being around other people.
    This is also how the tribunal panel would view it according to advisors.

    They explained that pip is there to help with the costs incurred because of your disability. So the needing for someone to be with you or the difficulty travelling on public transport incurs costs in either added transport tickets or taxis. The higher rate allows a person to get a mobility car, which helps them deal with their difficulty and give them that independence. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,544 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    No need to tell me that.

    a) i refer you back to what I’ve just said above (edited cos it was too early in the morning).
    b) I work in welfare rights :)
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sorry but that's not correct. Mike is correct here and the advisers you spoke to are incorrect. 11d or 11f only apply where a claimant could not reliably make their way along a route without an accompanying person, assistance dog or orientation aid. The presence of another person out of preference, is not sufficient.

    ‘Follow the route’ means make one’s way along a route to a destination. This involves more than just navigation of the route. Safety should be considered in respect of risks that relate to making ones’ way along a route (for example, tendency to wander into the road, inability to safely cross a road or risk of self-harm due to overwhelming psychological distress caused). For example, a claimant with a severe visual or profound hearing impairment may be at a substantial risk from traffic when crossing a road.

    What you stated above will not score your wife 12 points in this descriptor. You need to explain why she can't go out alone and what would happen if she did, you need to give examples.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    JazCo said:



    They explained that pip is there to help with the costs incurred because of your disability. So the needing for someone to be with you or the difficulty travelling on public transport incurs costs in either added transport tickets or taxis. The higher rate allows a person to get a mobility car, which helps them deal with their difficulty and give them that independence. 
    In theory yes, but in the main at lot of disabilities that people have incur very little extra costs.

    Using the Mobility issue, many disabled individuals own their own car so in that case there are no extra costs for mobility. In fact you could be as little as £20 a year better off (no longer pay road tax)

    So to equate costs as a reason for qualifying is plainly wrong.

    There are many that save up their DLA/PIP and take a cruise once a year courtesy of the DWP
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,544 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    Nice simple explanation from those benefit advisers but completely wrong. Would be interesting to see names named there. Let’s hope it wasn’t someone who charges.

    The “PIP is for the costs of disability” nonsense was exactly how government sold us DLA too. There’s nothing to that effect in the acts, the regulations, caselaw or guidance. If it was actually about that then it would be enshrined in law Like additional requirements were under Supplementary Benefit (showing my age now). It’s just politicians selling the idea to their voters.
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