Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Transferred to UC

I have been in ESA support group for 6 years.
Earning contribution related ESA.
For the last year my partner has been living with me so I stopped getting the income related part.
On 14 May my partner moved out so I contacted the DWP who added income related top-up to my ESA starting 15 May.

On 16 may I went to the council to claim Rent (£465 monthly) and Council Tax Benefits.
They pay the Council tax benefit but state I have to go to UC for the rent.
I completed the online UC application the same day.
After 5 weeks I have my first payment.

MY ESA has continued to be paid at the same rate as for the last 5 weeks.

 £73.10 - Living expenses (equates £316.77 monthly)
 £64.30 - For being severely disabled (equates £278.63 monthly)
 £16.40 - Disability Income Guarantee (equates £71.06 monthly)
 £37.65 - Support Group payment (equates £163.15 monthly)
________
£191.45 - TOTAL (equates £839.61 monthly)
________


My First UC payment breaks down as:

£317.82 - Standard Allowance
£465.00 - Housing
________
£782.82 - TOTAL before adjustments
________

Adjustments:
________
£479.82 - For ESA
________

 £782.82 - TOTAL before adjustments
-£479.82 - For ESA adjustment
________
 £302.90 - TOTAL UC payment for this month
________


I have done the maths on this.
The amount I am being deducted/adjusted each month by UC is £479.92
This is exactly equal to My ESA Living Expenses of £316.77 a month PLUS my Support Group payment of £163.15 a month.

Now I understand why I am having the adjustment for the Living Expenses part of ESA as this is being replaced by the UC Standard Living Allowance payment, which are near identical amounts.
However I do not understand why I am being adjusted for my Support Group Payment.

Full breakdown of loss below:

  £317.82 - UC Standard Living Allowance
 -£316.77 - ESA Living Expenses
  _______
  £ 1.05  - NET gain
  _______


 £163.15 - Extra money for Support group
-£  1.05 - NET gain
 _______
 £162.10 - NET Loss - The total amount I am worse off each month on UC!
 _______
 
Now I cannot afford to lose £162.10 a month.
This is going to cause me enormous anxiety.

I have been reading on the legal action brought by two claimants, known as TP and AR.
So it appears they are not making an adjustment for my SDP, which is good.

But reading about the case in several places it has just been declared discriminatory and unlawful not to give people such as myself (who have to move to UC from ESA due to a change in circumstances, claiming rent support), the same transitional protection as those that UC will migrate.
 
So should they be giving me an Extra Amount of at least £162.10 so that I am not on less money with UC than I was with ESA?
Or is there some other way my money can be made so I will not have the hardship of having to find an extra £162.10 a month (to pay my rent).

Thanks for any advice that can be offered :)

Replies

  • new_mannew_man Member Posts: 9 Listener
    In the above I meant to put SDP and not EDP
  • new_mannew_man Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Seems I was a bit mistaken :(
    Letter received from ESA today shows they are stopping all income related payments, including the SDP (but not money for the support group)!
    Now the Statement of benefit shows:
      £00.00 - Living Expenses
    +£37.65 - Support Group
    _______
     £37.65 - TOTAL income-related amount
    _______

    £110.75 - New TOTAL because entitled to contribution-based ESA

    So I guess:
     £110.75 - TOTAL
    -£  37.65 - Income-related amount
    ________
     £ 73.10 - Living expenses (contribution based)
    ________

    I am now assuming that UC will now add the LCWRA amount of £328.32 to my UC payment but will deduct the £479.82 so am expecting my UC to look like:

     £317.82 - Standard Allowance
     £328.82 - LCWRA
     £465.00 - Housing
    ________
    £1111.64 - TOTAL before adjustments
    ________

    Adjustments:
    ________
    £479.92 - For ESA
    ________

     £1111.64 - TOTAL before adjustments
    -£ 479.92 - For ESA adjustment
    ________
     £631.72 - TOTAL UC payment each month
    ________


    So now I am going to be even worse off than i thought.

    £631.72 - TOTAL UC payment each month
    £479.92 - TOTAL ESA Payment
    _______
    £1111.64 - TOTAL combined ESA and UC Payment.
    _______


     £1111.64 - TOTAL combined ESA and UC Payment
    -£ 465.00 -  My new rent payment
    _______
      £646.64 - Total UC + ESA remaining after paying rent
    _______


     £839.61 - My Total ESA payment before claiming UC.
    -£646.64 - Total UC + ESA remaining after paying rent.
    ________
    £192.97 - TOTAL amount I will be worse of on UC
    ________




  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    That's a long post to try to understand but i got there in the end. You're claiming ESA CB with an Income related top up but because you had to claim UC for your rent, your ESA CB is being deducted from your UC which is correct. As you moved to UC the premiums on top aren't paid with that, so you no longer claim the SDP or the EDP (EDP is automatically paid to the on IR in the Support Group) No premiums are currently being paid to those on UC.

    Now i know in the news recently there was something about the premiums being paid but as of yet they aren't. It's still early days for anyone to know what's going to happen to those that lost out on the premiums because they had to transfer across. DWP may or may not announce sometime in the future what their plans are, if anything. No one knows anything more regarding this.  Until then i'm afraid there's nothing you can do to claim those premiums under UC.


    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • new_mannew_man Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Thanks Poppy.
    Being straight to the point and succinct is not my strong point. You managed it exceptionally well :)

    Ok, I must have misread some of the news items about it.
    I read that they were stopping anyone else on SDP from having to transfer to UC and that those that were already transferred would be given Transitional Protection. Maybe fake news somewhere?


    "Last week, the Secretary of State announced that we will be providing greater support for severely disabled people as they move onto Universal Credit."And we have gone even further, by providing an additional payment to those who have already moved onto the benefit."


    "Since the trial was heard, Esther McVey the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, announced that no severely disabled person in receipt of the SDP will be made to move onto Universal Credit until transitional protection is in place and committing to compensating those like the claimants who have lost out."


    "McVey said in last week’s written statement that DWP would stop moving claimants of SDP onto universal credit until the introduction of so-called transitional protection, which will be introduced next year.And she said that all those who have already lost out through such a move onto universal credit would receive backdated payments to compensate for that loss, until transitional protection is introduced."


    How about this?

    1. Do I have to keep supplying sick notes? My work coach is adamant that I do.
    2. Do I have to keep seeing a work coach every couple of weeks? Again my work coach is adamant I do even though I do not have to look for work or take part in work related activity. Just seems an absolute waste of time to me to turn up and then say goodbye as nothing to do.

    Any thoughts?

    Many thanks.













  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes, i seen all that in news with the links but there's been nothing definite yet. This means that no one has or is being paid anything back that they lost. It may happen sometime in the near future but there's most likely 1000's of people that have been made worse off under UC rules and lost the premiums. Nothing will happen overnight, if you see what i mean. I guess yourself and others that are worse off will just have to wait and see.

    No, you do not have to keep sending those fit notes because you're in the Support Group for ESA, and this is not part of UC. You need to tell your work coach exactly this. You don't have to keep seeing your work coach either and you must also tell them this. Hope you get it sorted soon.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • new_mannew_man Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Thanks again Poppy. Hopefully they will make a decision soon.
    I personally will keep hassling the UC teams regularly about this (it just what I do).
    Feel really sorry for those that have had the shortfall for many many months. It must be really hitting them hard by now.

    I have tried to tell my work coach that i do not have to keep providing sick notes and seeing him but he really is adamant about it.
    I always record my conversations with him (again it is just something I do) and his exact words for seeing me were:
    "We are in the process of getting you assessed........All I know is what we have on the tool.......We do what we can with the tool we have.......Thinking about your next appointment now, If you come in with another fit note everything carries on, in theory if you come in without a fit note we have to set you as looking for work.........All we are asking you to do is attend and take part fully in meetings with your work coach, which you are doing and look in your todo list regularly.......we are not asking you to look for work, we are not expecting you to look for work, we are not expecting you to do any work prep or work on CVs or anything like that......I am not allowed to just ignore you and just park you for months at a time so I have to ask you to come in periodically to make sure you have an opportunity to talk to me if you have a problem with your claim and for me to check you are you are Ok".
    I get the feeling he is very new to the UC job.
    I will send another journal note stating I do not think I need to do this and will charge them for my time haha
  • new_mannew_man Member Posts: 9 Listener
    OK he refuses to accept that i am in the support group. So he refuses to accept I should not have to see him or that I dont have to supply fit notes.
    Quote: "We spoke at your last appointment about a Work Capability Assessment (WCA) for you.

    The WCA is the mechanism for placing you in the appropriate work group. Until that time, you have been placed in Intensive Work Search, but as you have been supplying fit notes, you have not been expected to look for, nor to prepare for work.

    Note that you are not now on ESA; you are now claiming UC, and the rules and procedures may be different from those which you have experienced in the past."

    We did speak. I told him it was unlawful to put me through a WCA just because I transferred to UC. yes they can at any time and if one is due but not because i have transferred to UC.
    I feel an official complaint coming on.
  • new_mannew_man Member Posts: 9 Listener
    OK I threw the Reg 19 UC Transitional Provisions Regs at the work coach last night in a journal entry and this morning i was put in the right UC group and my ToDo list items for the fit note and next appointment have disappeared.
    However I have not had a demand for a UC over payment of £311.28.
    Amazing as they only paid me £302.90 and no payment due for another 3 weeks.
    My case manager is looking into this for me so we shall see how this goes.
    I have also asked the case manager if they know when they will start paying the huge shortfall caused by migrating to UC from ESA and not applying transitional protection (mine is now £183.14  a month). Doubt I will get an answer but who knows.



  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Glad it's sorted, almost. As i stated there's no talk about paying anyone at the moment, at least not that i've heard.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • new_mannew_man Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Apollo, I feel for you.
    Still no news from my Case manager about when transitional protection will kick in for existing migrated clients so I assume there is no date for stopping the migration of SDP claimants to UC.
    I am wondering if they are appealing the decision, despite the promise to compensate and stop the future migrations until 2019. They were refused leave of appeal in the high court but this still leaves the court of appeal open.
    I will be putting a message in my journal for my case  manger every week asking for an update.
    Wish I knew how to start a campaign for everyone to do the same. That might get some action quicker.

    I send:
    -------------
    To my Case Manager,

    I am worse of on UC (compared to ESA) by £183.14 a month.
    When can I expect my UC to be made equal to my ESA payment?

    I naturally migrated to UC from ESA as I had to start claiming housing benefit.
    A legal ruling that made it unlawful and discriminatory not to pay the same amount to people such as myself who have had to naturally migrate to UC.

    The way UC is paid is unlawfully discriminating against people with disabilities by taking “essential benefits” from disabled claimants, the High Court ruled.
    Like myself, two claimants, known only as TP and AR, had both previously been in receipt of the Severe Disability Premium (SDP) and Enhanced Disability Premium (EDP), which were specifically aimed at meeting the additional care needs of severely disabled people living alone with no carer.

    Following the case the DWP's Esther McVey, the work and pensions secretary, committed the government to ensuring that no severely disabled person in receipt of the SDP will be made to move onto universal credit until transitional protection is in place and committing to compensating those like the claimants who have lost out, such as myself.

    As they have been refused leave to appeal the decision I am assuming these changes will be made soon.

    I shall be repeating this journal entry on a regular basis until I am compensated and paid the correct and lawful amount.

    Please reply!
    -------------
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The change to those claiming SDP hasn't happened yet.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • new_mannew_man Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Hope the change happens soon. I rely on the money but it may not be paid to me now. It seems I may have to move address again soon so guess that move will be the excuse they need not to pay me!
    If I hear anything about the change happening I will post here. For now I will harass my case manager very regularly.
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