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Do you think the PIP system is better han the old DLA

FedUpWithPain
FedUpWithPain Member Posts: 5 Connected

Do you think the PIP system is better han the old DLA 17 votes

Yes
29%
WaterLilyyingtongChloe_ScopeannmariescantleburyAlfieboy 5 votes
No
58%
lucille49Rosie2017feirWaylaydebbiedo49ericwattsCazannzany52Retro89sofabunny 10 votes
It needs more time and tweeks
11%
YadnadNashwood1968 2 votes
«1

Comments

  • wilko
    wilko Member Posts: 2,449 Disability Gamechanger
    The two benefits are totally different in how you are scored to gain each benefit. DLA was, is about your disability whereas PIP is based on your abilities to manage ,cope doing tasks in daily living and your mobility issues. So PIP is a more robust acessment as can be seen when people are moved from DLA over to PIP.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    They are different benefits but broadly based on the same principle of looking at the consequences of impairment. There were huge problems with DLA and similar problems with PIP, albeit that people like to think the problems are entirely different. I can see advantages in functional assessment if done properly but there are manifest flaws with the evidence gathering processes and I’m no fan of the biophysical model.

    The attached link is a big read but well worth it. I don’t agree with all of it (it’s a bit polemical) but the gist of it seems correct to me.


  • feir
    feir Member Posts: 395 Pioneering
    No
    No. If you are entitled to PIP then you'd have been eligible for DLA too, so i don't get why they brought it in, other than to deny many disabled people the right to a quality of life.

    DLA you could get if you had a sick note from your doctor,that's all you needed to be considered ill and needing help. Although you had to be sick for a year before you were able to claim it but at least eligibility was considered by actual doctors.

    Now everyone gets turned down unless incapacitated according to their dodgy criteria and this does not cover all disabilities that affect real peoples lives.

    I would think it's good if it was because the government did not consider the disabled useless but i seriously doubt it was brought in to give disabled people more rights to work either because benefits are a separate issue from that overall and working rights being enforced is what would help here. it's actually taken away a lot of disabled peoples rights to a quality of life that our human rights says is fundamental to our well being. Disabled peoples rights have been taken away and the gov. can pretend they still exist but they underfunded everything that helps the most vulnerable of society too and this includes the disabled. They cut back on the NHS and council funding too so that anyone disabled is less likely to get help there either.

    I also think it's disgusting that some disabled people who can and do work have had support taken away as their ability to work is taken as a sign that they are not disabled (despite them needing certain aides to retain their independence as a disabled person). I think the amount of disabled people relying on charity now proves that welfare is not working under this scheme. It proves that your right to a quality of life as a disabled person is not there any more, that has now gone. This is a basic human right that needs other humans to give it to you, and it does not exist under the government. Your right to live the same life as everyone else has gone.

    I've always said the tories are evil, everything they do proves it.









  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    feir said:
    No. If you are entitled to PIP then you'd have been eligible for DLA too, so i don't get why they brought it in, other than to deny many disabled people the right to a quality of life.

    DLA you could get if you had a sick note from your doctor,that's all you needed to be considered ill and needing help. Although you had to be sick for a year before you were able to claim it but at least eligibility was considered by actual doctors.

    Now everyone gets turned down unless incapacitated according to their dodgy criteria and this does not cover all disabilities that affect real peoples lives.
    Literally no idea where those 3 things come from. 2nd para. especially. Sick notes were never required nor relevant for DLA and you have only ever had a 3 months backward test not 12 months. As for the “actual doctors”... they were and are the worst bit of DLA.
  • feir
    feir Member Posts: 395 Pioneering
    edited July 2018
    No
    I claimed DLA once when i was on the sick for a year. Had to wait a year to be entitled to claim it but i did and i got it based on a sick note from my GP that covered me for life, and still does cover me in the sense that it restricts what work i can do and what they would be able to force me to apply for. I am way more disabled now than i was then and was only restricted physically in what work i could do but i still got help because i was disabled at the time, now i am incapacitated but not even covered by PIP.

    I got DLA for less than a year because i 'got better' and so was classed as able to work (despite the sick note that covered me for life) but i am still covered by what work i can do by that sick note ironically and not what is wrong with me now. So that's where that came from. 

    I'm more disabled now but have less protection. It's a joke, this system is laughable.

    Oh and let's not forget that they got rid of the lowest level of disability payments too, so protection for those people also gone. Supposedly that was so that the money went to help those who needed it more, sorry but you class one set of disabled people as not worthy of help  then you're really denying all disabled people the help and this is just the first step there and as you can see they try and move the boundaries for disability again and deny more people help.
    Your rights as a disabled person are being taken away little by little, for many theirs have already gone.
    Evil, like i said,
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    Ah, I fear some considerable confusion. There’s no way you would have had to wait a year to claim DLA unless you had been absent from the UK for a period before claiming and therefore didn’t meet the residence conditions. The 3 months text existed from 1992 and has never changed. If you were newly sick you could have claimed from 3 months.

    A sick note in itself would never get you DLA. Only the consequences of your condition would do that. Again, always been the case. 

    Finally, being able to work is not a relevant change of circs for DLA so you will not have lost it specifically because you were fit for work. Thousands of people get DLA and PIP but also work. You will have lost it because the consequences of your condition improved. It’s not obvious but it’s not always the same thing. 

    Sorry to take us OT.
  • feir
    feir Member Posts: 395 Pioneering
    edited July 2018
    No
    That's exactly how it happened, a sick note was all i needed but i had to wait a year. I have no passport so have never left the country. I claimed it after 1992. It might have been that my area had different rules to somewhere else, in the way the UC is being rolled out in different areas and so doesn't affect everyone yet?

    I was assessed within 3 months of being entitled to it and they took it away then but as my daughter had just died i really didn't care  at the time. It was only years later that by having their doctor say that there was nothing wrong with me that i had also denied myself self care because i thought nobody cared that i was ill, or more that i wasn't ill at all. And it's the same thing all your life until you finally get some support, once you get it this tells you that you are worth looking after, that you're entitled to help, that you're valid as a person. But it took me into my 40s to get any help at all and feel that i deserved it. It took actual supportive people to do that, not some idiots who invalidate your life and experiences as nothing and you as nothing also.

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    There were no different rules so sadly I suspect you were simply misadvised.

    Sorry to hear your story. I can relate in a small way to it as I was in my 40s before I finally got properly diagnosed, by accident, and began to process some fairly heavy related personal stuff and deal with all the self-care and validity issues. Can talk about it to anyone now but it took a series of genuinely life changing events and some seriously supportive people. 
  • feir
    feir Member Posts: 395 Pioneering
    No
    Yeah well thanks to the lack of support, and even the damage, these organisations offer i'm campaigning to get rid of them.

    I notice the topic saying those on long term disability won't be being assessed any more (doubt that personally) but if they actually bothered using the evidence presented to them in the first place then nobody at all needs assessing. These assessments are just there to save the gov. money, not for actual assessing of anyone in a way that helps them.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    Indeed, original intent was to save 20% on the DLA budget and use those savings to bring in UC. Not going well on either front. 
  • feir
    feir Member Posts: 395 Pioneering
    No
    Didn't know that was an actual fact, was just guessing because all that happens is people get denied help after having one rather than get the help they need.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    The 20% was a Maria Miller quote. The UC thing came out after IDS stepped down. 
  • debbiedo49
    debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,904 Disability Gamechanger
    No
    Pip is wrong for people with mental health issues as their main reasons for applying and how it’s affecting their day to day lives is not treated as favourably as physical health issues. However both sets of issues can be treated badly by the system which is like jumping through hoops of paperwork and processes. The strain on community resources like cab and WRO can now mean we cannot get representation at meetings. That’s how bad pip is draining resources. People talk about just giving up on certain benefits on this forum as it’s just too stressful.That’s not a real choice . It’s cruel.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    Have to say that, whilst I don’t agree with the first part of your post, I’ve never known a time where people felt that not being on benefit and struggling financially was a choice let alone the better choice. Hear it almost every week now. 
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 142 Listener
    I don’t agree with the first part, I think the PIP2 questionnaire was far better suited to those with mental health issues than DLA ever was, especially the mobility component! xxx
  • debbiedo49
    debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,904 Disability Gamechanger
    No
    Why do people have to disagree? Why not just state your own opinion and respect others? 
  • feir
    feir Member Posts: 395 Pioneering
    No
    The 20% was a Maria Miller quote. The UC thing came out after IDS stepped down. 
    I hadn't heard of it at all. Interesting that they admit it.I'm guessing they were hoping to catch out all these benefit cheats they think exist?
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    feir said:
    The 20% was a Maria Miller quote. The UC thing came out after IDS stepped down. 
    I hadn't heard of it at all. Interesting that they admit it.I'm guessing they were hoping to catch out all these benefit cheats they think exist?
    Yes, they’re big on fraud and demonising and yet their accounts have just been qualified for the 30th successive year i.e. deemed as unreliable. One of the main reasons? Their figures on under and overpayments don’t add up.

    The 20% figure? Here you go. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/jan/17/disibility-living-allowance-overpayment
  • feir
    feir Member Posts: 395 Pioneering
    No
    I didn't doubt what you said but that link was interesting. It ended with this also (which backs up what i was thinking as well):

    The scale of the cuts to DLA far outweigh any net overpayments that might be made under the current system. There are sound reasons to reform assessment, such as to better identify people with mental illnesses, but it can't be used as a principle justification for making much larger cuts than reforming this particular point could ever achieve alone. To achieve the 20% cuts the reduction in payments would have to go well beyond this particular cohort of people whose conditions have changed to cut DLA payments more generally.

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