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If the DWP appeal against a tribunal decision, can I appeal against the DWP?

turner1turner1 Member Posts: 7 Listener
edited July 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
Went for my pip appeal on 10 July 18 won the appeal, was told by the judge dwp did not want to appear on the day, judge told me won lower rate of daily living and enhanced for mobility I was so relieved and glad it was all over. The judge told me can take up to 2 weeks and it will be backdated. I contacted dwp 20 July to see if they had received the decision papers and was told after finally getting through to them waiting on the phone for 45 mins which is ridiculous, the lady said that they had the papers and she told me that dwp can overturn the decision, I felt really low thinking that it was all over do it is now on my mind if they appeal can I appeal against dwp, how can they treat people like this, can I ask how long do the dwp have to appeal the system is not fair please help me

Replies

  • gnmeadsgnmeads Member Posts: 187 Pioneering
    Hi turner1 welcome to the Scope community and sorry to hear about your problems.  If they can overturn the appeal then what is the point in having an appeal system.  If they do I would take them to court 
  • turner1turner1 Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Thanks gnmeads hope it wont come to court action 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @turner1 Pleased to meet you welcome.

    Please can I say sorry what you are going through. Thank you. Please can I advise maybe you need to speak to CAB or welfare rights. I am not an advisor in benefits.

    All I know having been through this myself many times. This is one of the issues around the benefit system sorry to tell you this.

    Just because you have won an appeal they can decide to whether to appeal against that decision. Trust me had this myself. I will admit this is a cause for concern. Much talk and chat on the forums over appeals .

    All I can add is to look at our benefit advice Talk about PIP.  For further advice, comments and other members of the community. Who have been through similar to yourself.

    Hope I have been of help and am here as any of the community to offer support. Best as we can as a community.  To advise with kindness.

    You need to ask further other members or a member of our team might be in touch.

    Keep in touch

    Take care

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • turner1turner1 Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Thanks @thespiceman worried about it but will seek advice from CAB and see what they say you would have thought winning an appeal would be final 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @turner1 Thank you replying back to me. In an ideal world yes but this is the DWP. Am being cynical here.

    DWP stands for Disabled Won't Pay.....or Won't Play all depends how you see it.

    Remember if you are into reading the news lately . Underspent us the benefits to us all. Those on ESA have been estimates £500 million.  Around that so they all owe us money.

    Glad you here and I hope you can find the time to look at our forums on the subjects.   Hope we can be of support to you.

    Understand your anxiety. I have this myself constantly.  You re not alone.  Having joined up last year I am determined to educate my self on the benefit system and hope and have learned a lot. From members of our wonderful community. 

    One small glimpse of what CAB said to me.  After filling in form. Had nothing yet no assessment. You need to a Mandatory Reconsideration because you will fail.

    New one for me the assessor has no reports from Doctors. Even though DWP supposed to send them to assessor. No medical report not a good assessment  point none claim will fail.  Make it up you see.

    Why all the lying.  Look on the forum and read the stories.  If you do not mind. Why gentleman like myself.  .  Have a heart and care and concern for all members of the community.

    In trying to support you as a new member. I have a job role as a community champion.  Meets and greets.

    So please if you can ask for any help and support best way to advise.  I hope with kindness and sensitivity.

    Always here to listen and please take care

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • turner1turner1 Member Posts: 7 Listener
    @thespiceman can I ask if dwp appeal can I appeal against dwp or what do I do 
  • Liam_AlumniLiam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 1,113 Pioneering
    Hi @turner1,

    Sorry to hear about the problems you've been having - it sounds like a really stressful time.

    I found some useful information from our benefits advisors on another discussion about what happens should the DWP wish to appeal a tribunal's decision:
    The procedure to challenge a First Tier Tribunal decision is lengthy, and there are 4 stages. I have explained the first 2 stages in detail, and then given a brief explanation of stage 3 and 4.

    Stage 1:
    When the DWP are thinking about challenging a tribunals decision they must first ask for full written reasons for the decision. The DWP must make this request within 1 month of the tribunal decision.  Given that they notified you 2 weeks after the hearing, it looks like they have made an in time request for the reasons. 

    Once the Tribunal have received this request the chair of the tribunal will provide a written statement to you and the DWP explaining why they awarded PIP.  In my experience it can take up to 12 weeks for the written statement to be sent out. 

    Stage 2
    Once the DWP have received the statement of reasons they then have to make a formal written request to the First Tier Tribunal stating why the tribunal who decided your partners appeal made an error of law in reaching their decision.  An error of law is for example that the have not adequately explained how they made their decision, or misunderstood the law.  This formal request is called permission to appeal, and must be made within 1 month of the date of the tribunals written statement of reasons. 

    If the DWP believe that they have a case to argue, and request permission to appeal, you will be sent a copy of this request. A Tribunal Judge who was not involved with your appeal will then look at the request to see if permission to appeal should be granted. You will not be asked to attend another hearing for this issue to be considered.  
    If permission to appeal is granted it is likely that your case will then proceed to the Upper Tribunal, if permission to appeal is not granted then the DWP will then have to ask the Upper Tribunal to look again at their request for permission to appeal. In my experience this second part of the procedure can take around 6 weeks. 

    Stage 3
    An Upper Tribunal will consider your case, and either decide that the First Tier Tribunal did make an error of law, or that the decision to award PIP is correct.  The Upper Tribunal generally considers cases on paper, which means that only in very rare cases will you be asked if you would like to attend the hearing. 

    I would strongly advise you to seek advice from a local advice agency, Law Centre or CAB if your case does go to an Upper Tribunal. 

    Stage 4
    If an error of law was made by the tribunal, you will be asked to attend another PIP hearing so that another Tribunal can decide if you are entitled to PIP and at what rates (if awarded). 

    If an error of law was not made by the tribunal then PIP are extremely likely to accept the decision and award PIP as decided by the tribunal. 
    At these early stages you will not have much input, as ultimately it will be for the DWP to persuade a tribunal judge that there has been an error of law. It is only if the case proceeds to the Upper Tribunal, will you be asked for your opinion, and thus as advised above at this stage it is best to seek further advice.

    I hope this helps!

    Liam
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    My appeal was successful but it takes 28 days approx as the DWP have 28 days to appeal the tribunal decision.
    It doesn’t happen very often but you should receive back pay probably before your letter arrives after the 28 days.
    Hope that makes sense 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes the DWP can appeal the decision just like we can. To appeal to the Upper tribunal the DWP must first ask for the statement of reasons, they have 28 days to request this. Then they must find an error in law in making the decision. It's very rare they do this but it can happen. I wouldn't worry though. They may make you wait about 6 weeks for your backdated money but i'm sure everything will be fine.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,931 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2018
    To answer the actual question... DWP have exactly the same appeal tights as you would had you lost. At this stage they’ll have just asked for a statement of reasons and record of proceedings. Upon receipt they’ll pass to their legs, team who will make a decision on whether to apply for permission/leave to appeal. It could actually be refused and even if they get leave to appeal it doesn’t mean they’ll win. 

    You don't need to appeal them. You’ll get a full right of reply at upper tribunal at every stage although as it’s on pints of law rather than the facts you might want to get representation. 

    Right now though all you can do is sit and wait.
  • lauren987lauren987 Member Posts: 49 Connected
    Hi @turner1 what was your outcome? 
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