PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP appeals succession SEIZURES

The_narratorThe_narrator Member Posts: 9 Listener
Hi just looking for feedback and general advice on this  quick back story is main disabling condition is seizures (epileptic/non epileptic) now away back in 2016 i was awarded 8 daily and 4 mobility when i was on keppra medication and had a well maintained condition now other  factors were astham anxiety and depression with muscle weakness due to seizures 

after a year they reviewed this and removed all awards i appealed and was denied via a MR i never went the tribunal route but this year due to the nature of publicity these illnesses received within the press i reapplied only difference this time is i was injured in a work accident and have llimited 90 degree movement in my arm which alongside the muscle weakness makes daily tasks a chore  

again after the assessment no suprise i was awarded 0 points and they mentioned the fact dvla allow me to drive and im on no medication (although i have tried umpteen varients to no effect) i have reappealed now so far ive sent them in an appeal statement with written evidence from myself how this condition effects me and were i agree or disagree with their assesment i havent done it in anger but was very foward in it although i have aplogised if they take it as arrogance  

just looking at advice from anyone within a similar broadfoot thats had any luck i mean the biggest laugh here is my seizures can happen at any point so i need someone with me at all times yet they found 0 points on that 

anyways given a written statement without any medical evidence as my gp has stated is all he could write is what ive allready told him what are the success rates or would i be looking at a tribunal i feel theirs a flaw somewere as i had a pip award for 1 year when the condition was well maintained and in a better route 

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Only advice i have for you is that most MR decisions remain the same. If this happens this time then taking it to Tribunal will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour, providing you appear in person. To keep on re-applying isn't always the answer. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • The_narratorThe_narrator Member Posts: 9 Listener
    im hoping i dont need to go down that route the gp has gave me letters on my medical file as some form of evidence but these are consultant notes so its hard to say if these would be of much use apparently statistics said a certain % of appeals in these groups do work but just unsure what my success rate would be if its this or a tribunal ??
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2018
    Decisions very rarely change at MR stage, it's less than 20% success rate. Tribunal success rate is 71% for those that appear in person. Expect to have to take it to Tribunal is my advice. Waiting times for Tribunal are huge because backlogs are long right across the country. Some are waiting 1 year for their hearing. A long process. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • justg72justg72 Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    The narrator
    Sorry to hear that you have lost your PIP, I have uncontroled treatment resistant Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. I was getting enhanced for both, in March I went for my F2F assessment and I was awarded 0 for both. I did not even score a point, even though my condition has not improved at all. I then appealed the decision with an M.R. and I then was awarded mobility. I am now taking it to a tribunal as I do not agree with the decision. However mine is different as there was many errors which occurred and I have put a complaint in regarding this matter. They have admitted to a number of errors and are still making more. I have all the evidence and they are not doing anything about it so I now have to take it to an independent, case, examiner. You mentioned that you can still drive, does that mean that you have not had a seizure for 1 year? I have lost my driving licence because of my epilepsy. If this is the case I do not think they will award you PIP as your seizures are under control and they have to affect you more than 50% of the time, it is called the 50% rule for people with epilepsy. You can find this link on the scope site.
    Epileptic people are the ones mostly affected and have lost PIP because of this. My epileptic nurse said that all her patients are now refused PIP, not one has been awarded PIP! and all of her patients have to take it further!
    What does that tell you its disgusting, I think its damn right discrimination against people with epilepsy. Just go on the epilepsy sites and read the stories. There wanting M.P.s to sign the epileptic pledge, this is all about PIP and epilepsy.
    Have a read and see what you think. Anyway good luck with your PIP.

  • The_narratorThe_narrator Member Posts: 9 Listener
    justg72 said:
    The narrator
    Sorry to hear that you have lost your PIP, I have uncontroled treatment resistant Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. I was getting enhanced for both, in March I went for my F2F assessment and I was awarded 0 for both. I did not even score a point, even though my condition has not improved at all. I then appealed the decision with an M.R. and I then was awarded mobility. I am now taking it to a tribunal as I do not agree with the decision. However mine is different as there was many errors which occurred and I have put a complaint in regarding this matter. They have admitted to a number of errors and are still making more. I have all the evidence and they are not doing anything about it so I now have to take it to an independent, case, examiner. You mentioned that you can still drive, does that mean that you have not had a seizure for 1 year? I have lost my driving licence because of my epilepsy. If this is the case I do not think they will award you PIP as your seizures are under control and they have to affect you more than 50% of the time, it is called the 50% rule for people with epilepsy. You can find this link on the scope site.
    Epileptic people are the ones mostly affected and have lost PIP because of this. My epileptic nurse said that all her patients are now refused PIP, not one has been awarded PIP! and all of her patients have to take it further!
    What does that tell you its disgusting, I think its damn right discrimination against people with epilepsy. Just go on the epilepsy sites and read the stories. There wanting M.P.s to sign the epileptic pledge, this is all about PIP and epilepsy.
    Have a read and see what you think. Anyway good luck with your PIP.

    i have them most days something to do with established history over 3 years allows me to drive  think because i have a warning sign there is an allowance to pull over etc 

    i know about the 50% rule but theres the case were this was thrown out and it isnt a case of how likely is it to happen it was how serious can the damage be if it happens at any occasion 

    yeh the PIP system is so one sided its tailored to be next to impossible to obtain i even stated it in my appeal letter that if i was like worst case scenario in a wheelchair or something i feel id still be awarded 0 on every 

    they diagnosed my attacks as epilepsy and went through the dvla for driving and was on a medical review with them every 5 years since then not taking my original award into account just medical history on the main condition theyve varied the diagnosis to non epileptic attacks which via numerous tablets  cant be controlled these attacks average  around 50 per course of 7 days even have nureophycology noting 165 in the space of 2 or 3 weeks told them ive gave them links to the EP societys website and how it affects memory loss and various other manners the tested my muscle strength and i kid you not they looked for me to move her finger as if you were gently blowing a feather even my own physio thought this was hysterical as its no way to test muscle strength 

    ultimately the seizures are not under controll i have all the nasty side effects incotenence  trips falls muscle weakness fatigue the anxiety depression  a lot of the mental health issues this causes 

    i do feel they will use any get out of jail free card so to speak that they can  i have strongly worded my appeal and hope it's enough and will update in here when i hear back but with how the view and assess epilepsy i feel its an uphill battle as my gp said today it's that attitude that they feel as if were at it when we have no control over these attacks heck have the photos of bruising and vomitting blood to suffice and with attacks normally varying 5 to 20 mins longest being 2 hours they really need to start looking at any seizural attacks on a case by case bsis within their own merit and against guidelines  that they should work with  the EP society and current sufferers to understand and gain a better knowledge of it 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited July 2018
    Decisions very rarely change at MR stage, it's less than 20% success rate. Tribunal success rate is 71% for those that appear in person. Expect to have to take it to Tribunal is my advice. Waiting times for Tribunal are huge because backlogs are long right across the country. Some are waiting 1 year for their hearing. A long process. 


    But only if you have a qualified rep working with you and represents your legal interests at a Tribunal. Without representation the 'win' rate plummets to below 50%.
  • The_narratorThe_narrator Member Posts: 9 Listener
    quick update on this got my MR back today again denying all points even goes as insulting to state that the issues i disagree with would mean dvla would not allow me to drive :| again their using the dvla as an escape goat how would they know in such a short time what dvla medical guidelines are in reference to my case 

    they completely ignored the fact i was awarded pip when my condition was in a much better state and say i can pretty much do everything with no help whatsoever i really wonder who these monkeys are looking at tbh i made it clear i need someone to go with me in a hourney this fact was overlooked and reffered to driving a MANUAL car still see the irrelevance of that aswell 

    Looking as if im heading towards a tribunal now but this is a joke in regards to seizures the PIP system really are discriminating against it 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you lost your driving license because of the amount of seizures you're having?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited August 2018
    quick update on this got my MR back today again denying all points even goes as insulting to state that the issues i disagree with would mean dvla would not allow me to drive :| again their using the dvla as an escape goat how would they know in such a short time what dvla medical guidelines are in reference to my case 

    I applaud the individual in the DWP who dreamed up this scenario. It started off in drips draps  within ESA decision notices. It then found it's way into the national database of cut and paste statements throughout the DWP PIP & ESA systems.

    It effectively says that anybody that admits to driving a car AND is claiming either mental or physical conditions that severely impact on their life then those claims of impact are easily undermined as it is accepted common sense that driving is something that you need good mental and physical skills to have.

    I do wonder how by using this statement for all claimants if they admit to driving a car they can logically take on a Motability lease vehicle for the claimant to personally drive?
  • The_narratorThe_narrator Member Posts: 9 Listener
    nope the dvla have allowed me to keep it under medical review i dont know what guidelines  they use but i just dont see how the pip DM can get away with useing that as an excuse as that only  affects driving not abiltiy too just allowance of 

  • The_narratorThe_narrator Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Yadnad said:
    quick update on this got my MR back today again denying all points even goes as insulting to state that the issues i disagree with would mean dvla would not allow me to drive :| again their using the dvla as an escape goat how would they know in such a short time what dvla medical guidelines are in reference to my case 

    I applaud the individual in the DWP who dreamed up this scenario. It started off in drips draps  within ESA decision notices. It then found it's way into the national database of cut and paste statements throughout the DWP PIP & ESA systems.

    It effectively says that anybody that admits to driving a car AND is claiming either mental or physical conditions that severely impact on their life then those claims of impact are easily undermined as it is accepted common sense that driving is something that you need good mental and physical skills to have.

    I do wonder how by using this statement for all claimants if they admit to driving a car they can logically take on a Motability lease vehicle for the claimant to personally drive?
    my thoughts exactly my exes aunty is  on enhanced rate mob and has a lease car  and is the named driver from my understanding of his statement effectively she should not be on the scheme or enititled to it as shes able to drive irregardless of  what  condition you have prior 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    nope the dvla have allowed me to keep it under medical review i dont know what guidelines  they use but i just dont see how the pip DM can get away with useing that as an excuse as that only  affects driving not abiltiy too just allowance of 

    That's very strange usually a person will lose their driving license because of seizures and you then have to be free of them for at least 12 months before you can apply to have your license back. I lost my driving license many years ago for exactly the same thing, i lost it for 9 years.

    Seizures and driving license don't go together.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member

    my thoughts exactly my exes aunty is  on enhanced rate mob and has a lease car  and is the named driver from my understanding of his statement effectively she should not be on the scheme or enititled to it as shes able to drive irregardless of  what  condition you have prior 
    I wonder that being able to drive a Motability car could be said to be a change of circumstances, one that you are required to notify the DWP of?
    If we take it as read that the DWP stand by their argument that driving a car is in part incompatible with physical or mental health difficulties that impact on your life.
  • LittleGizmo86LittleGizmo86 Member Posts: 79 Courageous
    nope the dvla have allowed me to keep it under medical review i dont know what guidelines  they use but i just dont see how the pip DM can get away with useing that as an excuse as that only  affects driving not abiltiy too just allowance of 

    @thenarrator

    I am not sure who at the DVLA said these things but their own criteria is seizure free for 12 months or you cant drive. Simple! There is no rule for knowing you are going to have one as you cannot guarantee a safe place to pull over?!

    It isnt very often i agree with the DWP but i am affraid if you are having 50 seizures a week that are causing memory issues and falls and other dangerous things then you would not be suitable to drive and should have had your licence removed.

    If you are as bad as you say then this would have been mentioned to the DVLA by the dr that fills in your medical forms? Does your dr know how bad things are?

    Im affraid im with the DWP on this.... something doesnt add up.

    Please if you really are as bad as you say... for the love of god stop driving!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger

    @thenarrator

    I am not sure who at the DVLA said these things but their own criteria is seizure free for 12 months or you cant drive. Simple! There is no rule for knowing you are going to have one as you cannot guarantee a safe place to pull over?!

    It isnt very often i agree with the DWP but i am affraid if you are having 50 seizures a week that are causing memory issues and falls and other dangerous things then you would not be suitable to drive and should have had your licence removed.

    If you are as bad as you say then this would have been mentioned to the DVLA by the dr that fills in your medical forms? Does your dr know how bad things are?

    Im affraid im with the DWP on this.... something doesnt add up.

    Please if you really are as bad as you say... for the love of god stop driving!
    I completely agree with this. I just do not understand if a person is having 50 seizures a day and still has their driving license then i'd question if they're really as bad as they say they are. DVLA don't take these conditions lightly, i know this as speaking from past experience.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Paul7210Paul7210 Member Posts: 40 Courageous
    edited August 2018
    PIP is based on daily care needs and mobility. There's many people with severe uncontrolled epilepsy that struggled to get the award, even my wife who has daily seizures and requires 24hr care struggled. Epilepsy comes in many forms and most that can drive tend to be able to lead a normal life without any care requirements as their condition is controlled, a very different situation to somebody who needs constant care that tend to need medical assistance for example in administering rescue medication calm brain activity and prevent/end status. Joining the mobility scheme the car can be in your nominated carers name, if you don't take this up you can claim free road tax and again it can be in your nominated drivers name that the car is registered to but the car can only be used for the disabled persons needs.
    You do need to be at least a year seizure free sometimes two for DLVA to allow you to drive, DLVA will write to your gp/neuro in some cases and can extend the time you need to be seizure free, here is the points and scores you need for pip, but as someone above said the 50% rule for those with epilepsy is that you need care at least 50% of the time and in most cases you wouldn't be able to work, the rules have been relax recently but still go by your care needs and mobility. Remember also the DWP and DLVA are linked so they will see what your allowed to do driving wise. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Paul7210 said:
    . Remember also the DWP and DLVA are linked so they will see what your allowed to do driving wise. 
    The two departments are not linked. In fact the DWP are extremely limited as to what they can get from outside bodies. HMRC are allowed to get a bit more but the department that does have the greatest powers of obtaining data is the Official Receiver's Office. However and ignoring data, both that office and HMRC have greater powers than the police when it comes to search & seizure.

    So the lowly DWP sits on it's own with little help from outside agencies - It creates it's own powers by way of abuse of the regulations, intimidation and bullying.

    It used to be the case years ago and is probably as true today, that the DWP has/had the worst record of any department for attracting quality staff. In my day no one wanted to be transferred there. The best would be the Diplomatic Service, followed by the security services/GCHQ.
  • The_narratorThe_narrator Member Posts: 9 Listener
    the dvla guidelines are so different and  they spoke to my consultants and were gave the same information as what the PIP were they medically cleared me for 5 years but my driving is minimal anyways  

    im awaiting my tribunal date ive requested it to be heard on paper as i cant have the added stress or anxiety playing on my mind and possibly ,making things worse so here is hoping also gonna reference some cases to in why i disagree with it 
  • justg72justg72 Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    The narrator
    I have just sent my tribunal form off, lets hope people with epilepsy win!
    I think epilepsy is so misunderstood, its an invisible condition until you see someone have a seizure. People seem to think that when we have a seizure we can get straight back up and carry on were we left off. That is certainly not the case, after a seizure after been unconscious, you wake up and do not know where you are, I can not walk, communicate, suffer from incontinence and much more. It can take you hours to come around and all you want to do is sleep because you are totally wiped out. I agree with you epilepsy is been discriminated against and people applying for PIP 3 out of 5 are been turned down. It is totally life changing and I struggle to cope with it everyday. I have to rely on my son and family for support as I need supervising because of safety. The assessor who I had, said I was fine to complete all the daily living tasks even though I nearly drowned in the bath and I have had near misses in the roads with cars. My nurse advised me that I can not cook, bathe, go out, iron and much more. The assessor and the DM went against all what she had said in the evidence I provided. It makes me sick how they treat people with epilepsy. Anyway good luck with your tribunal.  
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