Remaining politically neutral during General Election 2024


Under guidance from the Electoral Commission and Charity Commission, it's important that Scope remains politically neutral during General Elections.

While we understand that this period will see many passionate discussions and do not want to discourage open discussion, we cannot allow discussions which are purely intended to influence voting.

As ever, please make sure that your comments remain respectful of other people's opinions and keep to our online community house rules.
If we become concerned about you or anyone else while using one of our services, we will act in line with our safeguarding policy and procedures. This may involve sharing this information with relevant authorities to ensure we comply with our policies and legal obligations.

*Phone Call From DWP Regarding PIP & Tribunal*

Options
MW9
MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
edited July 2018 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Hi,

I’m wondering if anyone can shed some light on this? 

My PIP award was up for reviewing at the end of last year and after sending all the information and having an assessment I was subsequently kept on the same rates as previously (standard for both). I detailed on the forms and in person as much as I could how everything that affects me has gotten worse and impacted me. I sent a very detailed Mandatory Reconsideration letter decribing absolutely everything and got my points on the care component bumped from 8 to 11 with the mobility points staying the same at 10. I of course then took the next step and sent all the relevant documentation to initiate a tribunal. 

As of earlier today I received a phone call from a woman from the DWP saying that she’s reviewed all the information available and would be willing to give me the enhanced mobility which means I then wouldn’t need to go to a tribunal. Now, as much as I don’t want to attend a tribunal I firmly believe based on all my health conditions, the evidence that’s been sent, medication, doctors reports etc that I should be entitled to enhanced on both. Has anyone else heard of a similar phone call to void a tribunal? Is it maybe because they know what I’m more than likely to win the tribunal based on my health and all the evidence and they’re just trying to meet me half way by offering me enhanced on one of the components? I said I’d need to think about it and to phone her back.

Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks. 
«1

Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 56,976 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    Hi,
    Yes this can and does happen. If the DWP think that a decision will go in your favour for any part then there's a chance they could offer to up your award before the hearing takes place, which they have.

    You don't have to accept this offer if you don't want to. You have every right to continue with the Tribunal. There's no risk, if a Tribunal plan on lowering an existing award they must contact you before the Tribunal hearing. As you've got this far, for the sake of 1 single point if it was me then i'd certainly continue.

    Good luck!
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • wilko
    wilko Community member Posts: 2,458 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    Hello MW9, welcome it's a difficult one this you think you should be awarded the enhanced rate for care and mobility and they are offering you enhanced mobility if you accept  and you don't proceed to tribunal. The thing is has your care needs, do they meet the criteria to get the enhanced rate or is it mainly your mobility that qualify more towards the enhanced rate? If your care needs are boarder line for enhanced rate whereas you're mobility is as such that you easily meet the criteria for the enhanced rate then maybe the DWP have reviewed your evidence that was submitted at the start of the claim which is all they can look a even if your health has worsened. If you do not accept the offer and proceed to tribunal only the medical notes information that was available, submitted at the start of your claim and used at your acessment will be allowed and a judgement, award made on the evidence provided at the claim start regardless of any worsening health or mobility issues. Take advice form CAB or others who I am sure will give a comment or opinion. Good luck and keep us updated and keep posting.
  • atlas46
    atlas46 Community member Posts: 826 Pioneering
    Options
    Hi

    A very warm welcome.

    Poppy is correct, the DWP is now trying to stop cases that they know they will lose.

    Have you got someone to assist you at the tribunal?

    I would let the DWP know than you are going to the tribunal, see if they have another change of mind, in your favour.

    Keep us informed and good luck.
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    Options
    Thanks for the replies so far from everyone, instead of replying individually I’d thought it best to cover everyone’s points.

    I agree with them offering me enhanced for the mobility of course as I meet all the relevant points and descriptors, it’s the fact I feel they’ve still greatly overlooked the care component of my claim. It shouldn’t really even be touch and go as I rely on my partner for everything regarding help getting clothed, toilet needs, bathing, medication, amongst many other things. 

    The original mandatory reconsideration letter I sent was 23 pages worth, a very lengthy and detailed account of absolutely everything I could think of, I left no stone unturned which resulted in the care component going from 8 points to 11 points, still many points short of what I realistically should be awarded.

    When I phone the woman back on Monday and say I appreciate them offering me enhanced on mobility and mention that I’ll need to politely decline it due to not being awarded enhanced for care, does anyone know the likelihood of them then settling for enhanced for both?

    Like everyone else who’s went though it, I really don’t want to attend a tribunal due to the added stress and anxiety it brings, but I don’t want to settle for the convenient revised offer when I know it’s still not accurate to my circumstances.


  • debbiedo49
    debbiedo49 Community member Posts: 2,904 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    Good luck whatever you do 
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    Options
    This is the new routine. DWP have always been able to review at any time but they’d usually let stuff go to appeal. In the last few weeks there has been a complete turnaround and you’ll get this “offer” call on most cases at present. Several things to say.

    1 - nothing to stop you carrying on.
    2 - nothing to stop you accepting the offer so you get extra money now and then reappeal the remaining component. You wouldn’t have to do another MR.
    3 - very important to understand what length of award is on offer. Seen a few cases where they offer enhanced rate but for a shorter period. If you think it should be ongoing then argue your case. They’ll often come back with a 2nd or 3rd offer.
    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for the information. I didn’t realise I could accept their revised offer then reappeal, just one question though, would that not backdate the whole process which is already quite lengthy? 

    I’ve had my PIP extended for another 4 years, however my health and mobility conditions are ongoing and will continue to be as such, so that’s another point I’ll need to relay to them, which I have done previously but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears unfortunately.

    I get the impression that they know I should have been awarded enhanced for both components in the first place and they’re simply trying to meet me half way by now offering me enhanced on just the mobility, with them hoping I reluctantly accept this offer and not going through with a tribunal.

    I’m unsure of the chances of the woman awarding me enhanced for both components when I phone her back on Monday, but I can only be polite and stand firm on my views and if to no avail, continue with taking it to a tribunal. 
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    Options
    Not sure what you mean by “backdate the whole process”. Do you mean delay?

    There’s been some debate about this but the consensus in the Davy e world is that yes you can go back to appeal. See https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/12980/
    Sorry, yes I meant delay. As the wheels are set in motion so to speak, would it further delay the process if I were to take this route? 

    I had read that linked post earlier, some interesting points made in it. I’d just be worried to accept the revised offer they’ve given then possibly lose the right to still appeal to a tribunal. I’m new to all this and still trying to gain as much knowledge and learn about the ins and outs to give me the best opportunity to be awarded the correct points for both components. 
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    atlas46 said:
    Hi

    A very warm welcome.

    Poppy is correct, the DWP is now trying to stop cases that they know they will lose.

    Have you got someone to assist you at the tribunal?

    I would let the DWP know than you are going to the tribunal, see if they have another change of mind, in your favour.

    Keep us informed and good luck.
    You may well find that if you refuse the 'offer' they will withdraw it and allow the appeal to continue. No mention will be made at the Tribunal that the offer was made.
    Personally I don't understand why they do this. If the DWP think that they will lose why don't they just go ahead and change the award?

  • clarabelle
    clarabelle Community member Posts: 71 Courageous
    Options
    I'm at review stage for pip ( my award being fixed november 15 -April 19).  The original award of standard daily living and 0 points for mobility being overturned at tribunal and an award of enhanced DL & 4 points for mobility. The mobility element is now awaiting upper tribunal. 
    I just attended a capita medical for my review and was told I would receive a copy of the report and a decision within 4 weeks.
    Am I likely to receive a phone call from the dwp asking me to haggle or is this only happening after requests for MR? 
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    Options
    Well yes it would delay but then balancing that is getting the right outcome. Put it this way. If DWP thought they could win the appeal they wouldn’t be on the phone to you.
    I understand, that was my inclination originally, as I wasn’t expecting a phone call at all from DWP, but suppose they’re trying to get me to agree to what they’ve offered to save them the time and effort of it going to a tribunal.
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    edited July 2018
    Options
    Yadnad said:
    atlas46 said:
    Hi

    A very warm welcome.

    Poppy is correct, the DWP is now trying to stop cases that they know they will lose.

    Have you got someone to assist you at the tribunal?

    I would let the DWP know than you are going to the tribunal, see if they have another change of mind, in your favour.

    Keep us informed and good luck.
    You may well find that if you refuse the 'offer' they will withdraw it and allow the appeal to continue. No mention will be made at the Tribunal that the offer was made.
    Personally I don't understand why they do this. If the DWP think that they will lose why don't they just go ahead and change the award?

    Hi Yadnad,

    I know, it’s such a drawn out, frustrating process. It’s the fact that after my mandatory reconsideration letter they awarded me an additional 3 points to the care component putting it to 11 points from 8, now with this phone call they’re offering to increase my mobility from 10 points to over 12 points (or over) for the enchanted rate.

    That alone highlights the extreme discrepancies in the process when they can alter the award twice from the original decision they gave.

    Although I’m happy they’re now recognising my mobility issues and are willing to award the correct points for that component, the 11 points on the care component still doesn’t reflect the level of care my partner has to provide and qmy daily situations and how I have to cope with them, so for the sake of 1 point I’m definitely but reluctantly going through with the tribunal, unless they unexpectedly offer me enhanced for both when I phone back on Monday.

    To touch upon your point about no mention of the offer being made at the tribunal, I’m going to record the phone call and provide that as further evidence if needed.
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    Options
    MW9 said:
    Well yes it would delay but then balancing that is getting the right outcome. Put it this way. If DWP thought they could win the appeal they wouldn’t be on the phone to you.
    I understand, that was my inclination originally, as I wasn’t expecting a phone call at all from DWP, but suppose they’re trying to get me to agree to what they’ve offered to save them the time and effort of it going to a tribunal.
    It’s no effort at all for a P.O to attend. They love it. Time out of the office with the crossword and the ability to go straight home afterwards if the last case was adjourned. It’s about money.

    Incidentally you cannot record a call legally without consent.
    You’re right, they’ll no doubt treat it as an extended lunch break.

    From what I’ve read, you can legally record a call without consent as long as it’s for personal use, but if you’re relaying the call onto a third party then you need to gain consent. I wonder the possibility of them either retracting their offer or not mentioning it if I were to state at the beginning of the call that it’s being recorded.
  • April2018mom
    April2018mom Posts: 2,882 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    Don’t use the recording to threaten them. It is not a crime but it could be seen as a civilian case. Theoretically while you can record the phone call be aware that you are not allowed to share it. 
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    Options
    I wouldn’t use the call recording as a threat, that’s of course not my intention, it would be simply as a means to gain evidence that the DWP has revised their decision incase they deny it or don’t admit to it during the tribunal.

    That being said, the evidence that goes against their decision that’s already been given should be more than sufficient. 
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    MW9 said:
    I wouldn’t use the call recording as a threat, that’s of course not my intention, it would be simply as a means to gain evidence that the DWP has revised their decision incase they deny it or don’t admit to it during the tribunal.

    None of that actually makes any sense.

    You are not recording it as a threat but simply to gain evidence if they deny that there was a previous offer?
    But you can't use that phone call as evidence can you?
    So what is the point?

    If it is just for your own records that the call was actually made OK, but as you can't use it against the DWP ……….??
  • unoitsrong
    unoitsrong Community member Posts: 16 Courageous
    Options
    Again, if you record covertly you’re risking a civil penalty. If you present that to a tribunal as evidence of anything then you have no consent and instantly bring your own credibility as a witness into question as well as the fact DWP are likely to be there; will report that back and... back to a civil penalty. It is at minimum an immensely foolish thing to do.

    The reality is that once the offer scenario is done and dusted DWP don’t update the submission to reflect that so you do it by sending in a brief summary of events to HMCTS. Job done.
    What about if she brung the ‘offer’ phone call to their attention at the tribunal, she has already stated that she has been given the DWP workers direct number etc. That along with proof of call (not a recording) could be enough to help get her point across could it not?
  • unoitsrong
    unoitsrong Community member Posts: 16 Courageous
    Options
    It is an inquisitorial tribunal not adversarial. It’s not a game. If you know something now then you bring it to their attention now and not on the day.
    Ah ok, so you would phone them and state about the call?
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    Options
    Yadnad said:
    MW9 said:
    I wouldn’t use the call recording as a threat, that’s of course not my intention, it would be simply as a means to gain evidence that the DWP has revised their decision incase they deny it or don’t admit to it during the tribunal.

    None of that actually makes any sense.

    You are not recording it as a threat but simply to gain evidence if they deny that there was a previous offer?
    But you can't use that phone call as evidence can you?
    So what is the point?

    If it is just for your own records that the call was actually made OK, but as you can't use it against the DWP ……….??
    Sorry, you’re misunderstanding what I meant. If I were to record the call and declare it was being recorded that at the beginnning, if the person I spoke to was okay with that and gave consent to being recorded, I could then use that recording at the tribunal as I’ve gained consent. If I wasn’t to declare the call was being recorded or they objected to it, then naturally I wouldn’t be able to use it for any further purpose apart from personal use.

    The main reason I’ve considered recording the call is to highlight the fact the DWP have subsequently contacted me to offer me some kind of reconciliation, which flies in the face of the original decision they gave plus the revised points in the mandatory reconsideration.
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    Options
    It is an inquisitorial tribunal not adversarial. It’s not a game. If you know something now then you bring it to their attention now and not on the day.
    That makes sense, so you’re able to send further information to the address used when sending all the information to initiate the tribunal. 
  • MW9
    MW9 Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    Options
    MW9 said:
    Yadnad said:
    MW9 said:
    I wouldn’t use the call recording as a threat, that’s of course not my intention, it would be simply as a means to gain evidence that the DWP has revised their decision incase they deny it or don’t admit to it during the tribunal.

    None of that actually makes any sense.

    You are not recording it as a threat but simply to gain evidence if they deny that there was a previous offer?
    But you can't use that phone call as evidence can you?
    So what is the point?

    If it is just for your own records that the call was actually made OK, but as you can't use it against the DWP ……….??
    Sorry, you’re misunderstanding what I meant. If I were to record the call and declare it was being recorded that at the beginnning, if the person I spoke to was okay with that and gave consent to being recorded, I could then use that recording at the tribunal as I’ve gained consent. If I wasn’t to declare the call was being recorded or they objected to it, then naturally I wouldn’t be able to use it for any further purpose apart from personal use.

    The main reason I’ve considered recording the call is to highlight the fact the DWP have subsequently contacted me to offer me some kind of reconciliation, which flies in the face of the original decision they gave plus the revised points in the mandatory reconsideration.
    I think your description of your intent makes sense but there’s just no need and you won’t get as far as an offer. Consent will be refused and the call ended. No-one is going to carry on with a call once they know there’s a possibility you could be recording. I had a client try it on me once. The call was ended immediately and no further calls taken until we’d written to the client to explain that no consent for recording would ever be given. Client then had no way of claiming they had consent as we had a record of the letter being sent; notes on file etc.

    You note the date and time of any call; who you spoke to and exactly what they said. You put that in writing in advance for the tribunal and the job’s done. The P.O. on the day will most likely know there’s been an offer but also know they’ve not amended their submission to reflect that. Tribunals don’t need anything proved beyond reasonable doubt. Just on the balance of probabilities. Put it in writing; get it into the appeal papers well in advance of the hearing and away you go.
    Explaining it like that, you’re right. If I don’t declare the call is recorded then I can only use it for personal use, which is useless and would make it a moot point, and if I do declare the call’s being recorded then it’s unlikely consent will be given.

    I’ll be certain to sent a letter explaining I’ve been contacted regarding a revised offer, and if it’s of any use at the tribunal then they can touch on it then.
Complete our feedback form and tell us how we can make the community better.

Do you need advice on your energy costs?


Scope’s Disability Energy Support service is open to any disabled household in England or Wales in which one or more disabled people live. You can get free advice from an expert adviser on managing energy debt, switching tariffs, contacting your supplier and more. Find out more information by visiting our
Disability Energy Support webpage.
If we become concerned about you or anyone else while using one of our services, we will act in line with our safeguarding policy and procedures. This may involve sharing this information with relevant authorities to ensure we comply with our policies and legal obligations.

Find out how to let us know if you're concerned about another member's safety.