PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP Appeal Form - what to send ?.

skinnygirl101skinnygirl101 Member Posts: 8 Listener
I am appealing my PIP decision and I’ve filled in the appeal form and I have a doctors letter that proves what the DWP is saying is wrong but the person I saw at Citizens Advice said not to send any of the medical evidence with the appeal form and hand that in on the day of the tribunal rather than send it in with the appeal form. So I’m stuck on what to do ?. Any help would be great , thanks. 

Replies

  • clarabelleclarabelle Member Posts: 71 Courageous
    I'd send it and take it with you. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I would not advise you to hand it in on the day of the hearing. You don't have to send it with the form but you should make sure that any evidence you send arrives at least 10 days before the hearing. If you don't then it may not be used as evidence, if you take it on the day.

    Any evidence you previously sent DWP will be sent to the Tribunal by DWP. They also send everything you sent, this will include the original form you returned.

    Don't expect date for your hearing anytime soon. Backlogs are huge across most of the country and some are waiting 1 year for their hearing. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    You can send additional evidence to tribunal up to two weeks before hearing date and even not more than two pages of A4 on the day.  I was given this advice by BenefitsTrainingCo.

    I don't understand why CAB told you to take medical evidence on the day if you have it available at least two weeks before hearing.  Sending in evidence in advance will give the panel more time to consider it.  

    I think the allowing of brief additional evidence on the day is for papers that only become available at short notice.  The clerk will come out and ask if you have any additional evidence to submit.
  • skinnygirl101skinnygirl101 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Thanks guys , @Matilda he said to take my evidence on the day so the DWP don’t have time to prepare an “attack” to dispute my evidence.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Maybe CAB are right though DWP only send reps to hearings in a minority of cases - but you might be one of the unlucky ones.  As long as the doctor's letter isn't more than two pages of A4 you can submit it on the day.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
    Good grief. I can only concur with the other advice on here. The advice you’ve been given is wholly incorrect and if reported correctly then quite shocking. 

    Firstly, the purpose of an SSCS1 form is to get an appeal in inside a month and lay out the basic argument you have so it can be seen there’s at least something to discuss. So, no evidence needs to go in with the SSCS1.

    Secondly, tribunals are inquisitorial not adversarial. Nobody will be going on the “attack” and they are not conducted like some fictional crime drama.

    Thirdly, I am very concerned at the idea that you have 1 GP letter that proves DWP wrong. This is another example of the misconception that proving something was wrong wins you PIP. All that will happen is that the DWPs supporting evidence will be given less weight. You need to know which activities you score points on; whether that’s enough; why you score the points abd what your evidence is to justify each set of points. Frankly, 1 letter isn’t going to be doing that. Once the appeal has been lodged wait for the appeal Bunche ru be received. At that point you have an opportunity to respond to DWP; submit a written submission and all your supporting evidence. Your evidence does not need to be medical or large in volume. Medical evidence can’t say whether you can dress unaided unless you’re sleeping with your GP (!) for example you can provide detailed anecdotal evidence of what happened the last couple of times you dressed without help. 

    Fourthly, a dim view will be taken if you have evidence now but only roll up with it on the day. 2 sides is a decent rule of thumb but not an actual rule and it’s irrelevant here. You have the evidence. It should go in when you have the bundle. Holding it back is not acceptable. 

    Fifthly, absolutely no point in sending it in AND taking it on the day. When you send it in you will get a copy back numbered to show that it’s now part of the appeal papers. You and the tribunal will all have the papers so why you’d need to take it on the day is beyond me.


  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks guys , @Matilda he said to take my evidence on the day so the DWP don’t have time to prepare an “attack” to dispute my evidence.
    Terrible advice you've been given here, sorry, who ever advised you needs kicking out of the door.  As mike also stated, you'll need more evidence than just a letter from your GP too.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • skinnygirl101skinnygirl101 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    I know they can review your whole reward before anyone jumps down my throat but I’m only disputing one section of my reward. I was awarded enhanced daily living and standard mobility (10 points moving around) and I feel I should’ve scored 4 points for “planning and following a journey” but they scored me 0. I have a doctors letter stating I have a cognitive impairment that prevents me from planning and following a journey plus a letter and scan from a neurologist stating this too. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
    The GP letter takes you only halfway there. You need to give several real examples of what had happened to you when you tried to plan and follow a route and go into detail about which specific aspects of planning and following you struggle with.  
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2018
    @skinnygirl101

    CAB have a good reputation and know a lot about appeals.  If the evidence they say you should not submit until the day is not more than two A4 pages, then you have nothing to lose by submitting it on the day.

    While medical evidence is important, the most strongest testimony is your own on the day.  The panel are interested in what you can and can't do and will ask you a lot of questions to ascertain this for themselves.  While every case is different, the only medical evidence submitted to my appeal was 19 years old from when I first claimed DLA (though still relevant because I have a degenerative disease).  But mainly I won my appeal based on the strength of my own testimony.  Enhanced both components, up from standard both components.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m sure it would annoy the heck out of @Matilda if only she weren’t already ignoring my posts but the second sentence of her first paragraph is as wrong as the advice you’ve already been given. 

    If you hang onto the evidence until the day of the hearing and then hand it in I guarantee that 

    - the tribunal will want a full explanation as to why it’s only just been handed in. This may be polite or, depending on how their day is going, it could be a complete roasting. If you’re already stressed about the process then are you happy to chance your appeal starting with you being roasted for negligently failing to hand in a document when you’ve had it for months? I have seen this happen repeatedly with appellants over many years. 
    - what exactly is the explanation going to be? CA do have a good reputation. Many tribunals won’t acceit your assertion as to what they told you to do. This cuts into your credibility as a witness. Can you be trusted if you’ve withheld evidence and made up an unlikely story to cover it up?
    - it will antagonise at least one member of the panel if not all three. They spend their free time previewing papers and forming an initial view. Having that turned upside down minutes before your appeal starts is not the way to get a panel onside. 
    - if you’re adjourned there’s every chance a clerk working under pressure will fail to copy the document in order to make sure it’s added to the appeal bundle for next time. If you don’t realise that and fix it before that hearing but then raise that it’s missing then you’ll either get another telling off/final warning or and/or you’ll get a 2nd adjournment. 

  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    Send phptocopies to them.
    Take originals  with you.
    Dont let them out of your sight
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @Matilda, I have to completely disagree with you here.

    Why would you want to hold onto the evidence until the day of the Tribunal? A claimant has months and months to send their evidence, you should make sure that the evidence arrives at least 10 days before the hearing. What good will it do to hold onto it?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited July 2018
    I agree with Mike, but on the other hand can fully understand why people don't want to put the DWP on notice that further evidence is available that could help swing the award from Standard to Enhanced. People simply don't trust the DWP to take notice of the evidence. They are fixated on their decision and the feeling is that they will try anything to discredit it. 
    I had a report from my GP way back that clearly said that my mobility issues were proven in hospital by way of a walking machine. Two tests were carried out with the results being the same - failed at 10 metres. Yet It took me two attempts to get the DWP to actually read the report properly before they upped my award from 0 points to standard mobility and then to Enhanced. It was as though they tried everything to get me to accept Standard and then when they had no alternative they relented.
    Until the DWP can show that they can be trusted to be fair and honest not that many people would want to put their trust in them.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @poppy123456

    For the reason that the OP said the CAB had given her.  Take a look at the OP's second post above.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Definitely send the evidence, but keep copies, before the hearing date. As already stated this will give the tribunal panel time to read it before your hearing. 

    Good luck
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Matilda said:
    @poppy123456

    For the reason that the OP said the CAB had given her.  Take a look at the OP's second post above.
    I did, which was why i commented quoting the comment. Which is why i'm sticking to what i said. Terrible advice given by CAB!
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
    Matilda said:
    @poppy123456

    For the reason that the OP said the CAB had given her.  Take a look at the OP's second post above.
    I did, which was why i commented quoting the comment. Which is why i'm sticking to what i said. Terrible advice given by CAB!
    Absolutely agree but let’s be clear that it’s not CAB it’s CA abd it’s a renegade individual not the organisation.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    skinnygirl101 can make up her own mind whether to take CAB's advice.

    It is permissible to hand in a couple of pages of A4 on the day.  BenefitsTrainingCo told me so.  And the clerk came out before my hearing to ask if I had any additional evidence to submit.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
    Matilda said:
    skinnygirl101 can make up her own mind whether to take CAB's advice.

    It is permissible to hand in a couple of pages of A4 on the day.  BenefitsTrainingCo told me so.  And the clerk came out before my hearing to ask if I had any additional evidence to submit.
    I’d be willing to bet that what @BenefitsTrainingCo actually said was in the context of late evidence and absolutely not in the context of deliberately hanging onto evidence for weeks or months just to spring it on the day. 

    Clerks will always ask the question. That doesn’t mean it’s acceptable, accepted or the norm. It means it saves everyone time and would be dumb not to.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member

    I did, which was why i commented quoting the comment. Which is why i'm sticking to what i said. Terrible advice given by CAB!
    Absolutely agree but let’s be clear that it’s not CAB it’s CA abd it’s a renegade individual not the organisation.
    Hi Mike - not the CAB? This is the second time in as many weeks that the advice given by the CAB or one of its advisors that may well lead claimants into trouble or unnecessary difficulties. The first was the advice given on the CAB website regarding what to do if the claimant thinks they have had a change of circumstances.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Matilda said:
    skinnygirl101 can make up her own mind whether to take CAB's advice.

    If that was true then skinnygirl101 wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. It seems like to me that she was worried about the advice she was given, which was why the question was asked.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    But she's now received advice so she is better placed to decide what to do.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:

    I did, which was why i commented quoting the comment. Which is why i'm sticking to what i said. Terrible advice given by CAB!
    Absolutely agree but let’s be clear that it’s not CAB it’s CA abd it’s a renegade individual not the organisation.
    Hi Mike - not the CAB? This is the second time in as many weeks that the advice given by the CAB or one of its advisors that may well lead claimants into trouble or unnecessary difficulties. The first was the advice given on the CAB website regarding what to do if the claimant thinks they have had a change of circumstances.
    Having managed a bureau back in the day for a short period and do various bits of liaison over the years I can say with some confidence that like all advice work the quality is dependent upon funding and management. Like anything it will vary but also like anything the actions of one individual do not tell you anything about the organisation as a whole.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member




    Having managed a bureau back in the day for a short period and do various bits of liaison over the years I can say with some confidence that like all advice work the quality is dependent upon funding and management. Like anything it will vary but also like anything the actions of one individual do not tell you anything about the organisation as a whole.
    I'm not disputing what you say but all it takes is a couple of 'bad apples' and a little poor advice on a web page to bring the whole organisation into disrepute.

    My own opinion of the branch that I have managed to visit over the years was mediocre - some very poor advice and one or two bits of good. I even had my DLA form filled out by them back in 1995. They completed the care part but failed to put anything in for the mobility part. I had to rectify that when I received the decision and questioned why there was no mobility award - I was told that it was because I hadn't completed that part! Taught me to read the completed from next time before signing it and allowing them to post it off for me.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
    Clearly you’re living on the desert then.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Maybe the desert when it comes to good quality, easily accessible Welfare Rights advice and help  but this area is fortunately known as the 'Garden of England'.

    I actually checked out the Law Centre that covers this part of the South East - it's based in West London approx. 95 miles away!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
    Might be worth checking the area they cover. GM Law Centre covers so of GM.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Might be worth checking the area they cover. GM Law Centre covers so of GM.
    sorry mike - GM??? did you mean GL?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,986 Disability Gamechanger
    Nope GM. Ours covers the whole of Greater Manchester.
This discussion has been closed.