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How long is the wait for a tribunal?

Mikey44Mikey44 Member Posts: 74 Courageous
edited August 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
ive just received the DWP evidence(book of lies) how long on average is the wait from now until Tribunal please 

Replies

  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Up to a year, unfortunately.
  • Mikey44Mikey44 Member Posts: 74 Courageous
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,297 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    It varies hugely from region to region. In some it remains as low as 4 months. In others it is 18 months or above. However, just ring your local HMCTS office they will tell you the exact current delay for your area.

    In limited circumstances appeals can be expedited (sped up) but you need fave to face advice to look at that.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    But usually worth the wait - 71% succeed :)
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,297 Disability Gamechanger
    Only where there is a representative.
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Would you recommend getting representation for a tribunal?  My notice of appeal was received, on 1/5/18 at the HMCTS Leeds. I went to CAB and they said that I had a good case and could do it on my own. I was prepared to go with just a member of my family but now having doubts.  Also while looking through my paperwork from DLA, I noticed that they had made a mistake on my claim date. They have put that my claim was made, 20/11/2018, instead of 20/11/2017! Would you recommend that I inform the Tribunal Service, or hope that they realise the mistake?
    Thanks for any info.

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,297 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m a rep. so it could be said “well he would say that wouldn’t he” but the reality is that if good, free representation is available in your area then yes, always. The percentages quoted above are correct but also family tend to antagonise tribunal panels because there are clearly defined roles which family rarely get right. You can be 

    - a representative - you don’t talk for the appellant because they’re there but you do get to outline what award you’re looking for and what the legal case is as well as pick up on any issues the tribunal or appellant miss or misinterpret.

    - observer - sits away from the tribunal but you are watching only. You do not and cannot take part.

    - witness - you give your own evidence to support the appellants own case. You don’t get to comment on anything else. You watch silently, do your bit and you’re done.

    - appellant - the person making the claim being appealed. The only person allowed to present their evidence and answer questions on it unless they have an appointee. 

    Most family members struggle to be observers as it’s hard to be silent. They struggle to represent as they don’t know enough of the law, case law or guidance and confuse the role with speaking for the appellant and get shot down in flames to the detriment of the case. They often make poor witnesses as they haven’t been prepared by a rep and want to rehear the whole case instead of focusing on what they know. 

    The temptation to talk for any appellant needs to be resisted. You’ll always get people saying “but...

    - they’re not articulate.
    - they’re nervous.

    and many orher arguments. Bottom line - nothing makes the case for the consequences of someone’s ill health better than a poorly appellant. 

    The other side of having representative is that, as you’ll read on here, people get incredibly stressed with the process; what comes when; what letters mean; what is good evidence; what will happen on the day. A good rep explains all and covers all the bases. It’s typical that people think representation is just about what happens on the day and the outcome. That’s about 10% of what gets done. A good rep should also keep you off web forums (seriously). All your questions should be answered by them. If people come on here because they need answers and they have a rep. that is concerning. 

    Now, having said that, tribunals are inquisitorial so it’s perfectly possible to win a case without a rep just as it’s equally possible to lose a case with a rep. However, a badly presented case can win with a decent tribunal but won’t with a poor one People who have won without representation tend to almost always ascribe this to something they did rather than the skill of the tribunal pulling out what was relevant. Having seen tribunals over three decades, including many times as an observer, it’s almost never the case. I’ve never yet heard of anyone unrepresented winning two tribunals for themselves. 

    Finally, don’t confuse an organisation with a good reputation as meaning all their reps will be good. Good organisations have bad reps. Reputationally poor organisation have good reps. How can you tell? Walk away from anyone who wants to tell you their success rate? It’s a fave tactic of organisations that charge but also of inexperienced or renegade/boastful reps. That tells you that they’re either lying or cherry picking only cases which are clear cut winners and probably would be anyway with a decent tribunal and without them. Good reps do not guarantee a win but they will take in winnsble cases rather than likely winners and they’re the more likely to turn a marginal case into a winner. They’ll also know their law, case law and guidance and be able to cite it but in plain English. 

    I hope that makes sense. 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @Mikey44

    Many assessors' reports and consequently DWP decisions are of poor quality, factually inaccurate, which is why 71% of appeals succeed.  As long as you think the current award is safe from reduction, it's worth appealing.  My appeal increased my award from standard to enhanced both components.

    PIP points are awarded for how your conditions affect your daily living and mobility, not for the conditions themselves.

     Disability Rights UK site (DRUK) has  a good guide to PIP appeals.  And they publish a Handbook that gives a detailed outline of PIP appeal hearings procedure.  £18.50 from DRUK site or probably available in your local reference library.

    The first stage of appeal is to ask for a mandatory reconsideration (MR).

    advice now.org.uk/pip-tool

    will generate an MR submission letter.

    Try to get some f2f help from CAB or similar, or local authority welfare rights.
  • NannaPNannaP Member Posts: 44 Connected
    Hi everyone.
    I'm in West Yorkshire and so far I've been waiting 11 weeks,but have been told for my area the wait time is 37 weeks. 

  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m a rep. so it could be said “well he would say that wouldn’t he” but the reality is that if good, free representation is available in your area then yes, always. The percentages quoted above are correct but also family tend to antagonise tribunal panels because there are clearly defined roles which family rarely get right. You can be 

    - a representative - you don’t talk for the appellant because they’re there but you do get to outline what award you’re looking for and what the legal case is as well as pick up on any issues the tribunal or appellant miss or misinterpret.

    - observer - sits away from the tribunal but you are watching only. You do not and cannot take part.

    - witness - you give your own evidence to support the appellants own case. You don’t get to comment on anything else. You watch silently, do your bit and you’re done.

    - appellant - the person making the claim being appealed. The only person allowed to present their evidence and answer questions on it unless they have an appointee. 

    Most family members struggle to be observers as it’s hard to be silent. They struggle to represent as they don’t know enough of the law, case law or guidance and confuse the role with speaking for the appellant and get shot down in flames to the detriment of the case. They often make poor witnesses as they haven’t been prepared by a rep and want to rehear the whole case instead of focusing on what they know. 

    The temptation to talk for any appellant needs to be resisted. You’ll always get people saying “but...

    - they’re not articulate.
    - they’re nervous.

    and many orher arguments. Bottom line - nothing makes the case for the consequences of someone’s ill health better than a poorly appellant. 

    The other side of having representative is that, as you’ll read on here, people get incredibly stressed with the process; what comes when; what letters mean; what is good evidence; what will happen on the day. A good rep explains all and covers all the bases. It’s typical that people think representation is just about what happens on the day and the outcome. That’s about 10% of what gets done. A good rep should also keep you off web forums (seriously). All your questions should be answered by them. If people come on here because they need answers and they have a rep. that is concerning. 

    Now, having said that, tribunals are inquisitorial so it’s perfectly possible to win a case without a rep just as it’s equally possible to lose a case with a rep. However, a badly presented case can win with a decent tribunal but won’t with a poor one People who have won without representation tend to almost always ascribe this to something they did rather than the skill of the tribunal pulling out what was relevant. Having seen tribunals over three decades, including many times as an observer, it’s almost never the case. I’ve never yet heard of anyone unrepresented winning two tribunals for themselves. 

    Finally, don’t confuse an organisation with a good reputation as meaning all their reps will be good. Good organisations have bad reps. Reputationally poor organisation have good reps. How can you tell? Walk away from anyone who wants to tell you their success rate? It’s a fave tactic of organisations that charge but also of inexperienced or renegade/boastful reps. That tells you that they’re either lying or cherry picking only cases which are clear cut winners and probably would be anyway with a decent tribunal and without them. Good reps do not guarantee a win but they will take in winnsble cases rather than likely winners and they’re the more likely to turn a marginal case into a winner. They’ll also know their law, case law and guidance and be able to cite it but in plain English. 

    I hope that makes sense. 
    I doubt anyone can add anymore to that.
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s still worth a go regardless
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s still worth a go regardless


    Is this not part of the problem with excess numbers waiting for a Tribunal? Surely it would be better if advice could be obtained as to the likelihood of an award - is the case winnable.

    It's almost the same advice given when deciding if you think you could be entitled  - just put a claim in, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    I am/was in that position when looking at Attendance Allowance. The advice given to me was why bother looking to see if you qualify - just put a claim in. Much like going fishing, why worry about the best spot on the river to be - just put your line out anywhere you might catch something.
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    I’m a rep. so it could be said “well he would say that wouldn’t he” but the reality is that if good, free representation is available in your area then yes, always. The percentages quoted above are correct but also family tend to antagonise tribunal panels because there are clearly defined roles which family rarely get right. You can be 

    - a representative - you don’t talk for the appellant because they’re there but you do get to outline what award you’re looking for and what the legal case is as well as pick up on any issues the tribunal or appellant miss or misinterpret.

    - observer - sits away from the tribunal but you are watching only. You do not and cannot take part.

    - witness - you give your own evidence to support the appellants own case. You don’t get to comment on anything else. You watch silently, do your bit and you’re done.

    - appellant - the person making the claim being appealed. The only person allowed to present their evidence and answer questions on it unless they have an appointee. 

    Most family members struggle to be observers as it’s hard to be silent. They struggle to represent as they don’t know enough of the law, case law or guidance and confuse the role with speaking for the appellant and get shot down in flames to the detriment of the case. They often make poor witnesses as they haven’t been prepared by a rep and want to rehear the whole case instead of focusing on what they know. 

    The temptation to talk for any appellant needs to be resisted. You’ll always get people saying “but...

    - they’re not articulate.
    - they’re nervous.

    and many orher arguments. Bottom line - nothing makes the case for the consequences of someone’s ill health better than a poorly appellant. 

    The other side of having representative is that, as you’ll read on here, people get incredibly stressed with the process; what comes when; what letters mean; what is good evidence; what will happen on the day. A good rep explains all and covers all the bases. It’s typical that people think representation is just about what happens on the day and the outcome. That’s about 10% of what gets done. A good rep should also keep you off web forums (seriously). All your questions should be answered by them. If people come on here because they need answers and they have a rep. that is concerning. 

    Now, having said that, tribunals are inquisitorial so it’s perfectly possible to win a case without a rep just as it’s equally possible to lose a case with a rep. However, a badly presented case can win with a decent tribunal but won’t with a poor one People who have won without representation tend to almost always ascribe this to something they did rather than the skill of the tribunal pulling out what was relevant. Having seen tribunals over three decades, including many times as an observer, it’s almost never the case. I’ve never yet heard of anyone unrepresented winning two tribunals for themselves. 

    Finally, don’t confuse an organisation with a good reputation as meaning all their reps will be good. Good organisations have bad reps. Reputationally poor organisation have good reps. How can you tell? Walk away from anyone who wants to tell you their success rate? It’s a fave tactic of organisations that charge but also of inexperienced or renegade/boastful reps. That tells you that they’re either lying or cherry picking only cases which are clear cut winners and probably would be anyway with a decent tribunal and without them. Good reps do not guarantee a win but they will take in winnsble cases rather than likely winners and they’re the more likely to turn a marginal case into a winner. They’ll also know their law, case law and guidance and be able to cite it but in plain English. 

    I hope that makes sense. 

    Thank you so much for your info. I was just thinking of taking a family member to the tribunal, to carry my folder and for support. But not to speak up, or represent me.
    I am sure that it is harder to get reps now, as there are many tribunal appeals to deal with.

    Regarding my last paragraph about the DWP's mistake about the wrong date of my PIP application. Do you think that I should let the Tribunal Services know?

    Thank you once again.

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,297 Disability Gamechanger
    Your family member needs to either not be in the tribunal room and just pick you up later or only go in as an observer. However, the latter is incredibly hard to pull off so I wouldn’t recommend it unless they are capable of total silence for an hour or more. 

    As for the date, most appeal bundles are full of typos. If you have a rep they can do a written submission and correct it in passing but the claim pack should be in the bundle as well so it’s easy enough to point out on the day.
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Thank you.once again. Great help. :)


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,297 Disability Gamechanger
    No problem. There are no guarantees but good luck.
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