PIP, DLA and AA
If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.

May need to appeal, advice please

jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
hi guys still early days I know but today I have received a copy of my report, a few things I do not agree with, can someone tell me how I get an appeal ready and what kind of evidence I need to supply to go in my favour. For example the assessor stated I can’t lower myself independently into a bath but has only stated I need an aid washing (b) which contradicts what she said about needing help to lower in the bath? But how can I get evidence on this? Also she has put that I can walk 20 metres and no more than 50 but I stated the furthest I walk is into the doctors with my crutches and I need to stop twice walking in there which is about 20metres from car park. Again how can I prove this? 

Replies

  • jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
    Sorry adding a bit more lol 

    she also stated that I touched my ankle during the f2f but I had said I need help off my husband to get dressed and because of this I can therefor get dressed unaided. How on earth do I show this? Without inviting them round lol 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    jules13 said:
     For example the assessor stated I can’t lower myself independently into a bath but has only stated I need an aid washing (b) which contradicts what she said about needing help to lower in the bath? But how can I get evidence on this? Also she has put that I can walk 20 metres and no more than 50 but I stated the furthest I walk is into the doctors with my crutches and I need to stop twice walking in there which is about 20metres from car park. Again how can I prove this? 
    As regards the aid problem, that is right. you stated that you could not lower yourself into the bath - the assessor has said that you could have an aid to do that for you. I have an electric bath chair lift that lowers me into and out of the bath. This was supplied by Social Services. But in my case even with that aid they disagreed with Social Services saying that it was a choice thing and not a need thing.

    Extremely difficult to prove distances if the assessor thinks that you are over egging the pudding. You say under 20 they say over 20 but no more than 50.

    I managed to get round that point by having the spinal unit at the hospital test my mobility. They put me on a walking machine and after 10 metres or so I fell off twice. That report was sent to the DWP/assessor but was originally ignored by the assessor who said I could walk at least 200 metres without difficulty. The DWP  eventually saw sense and over ruled the assessor based on the hospital report.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @jules13, going on what you have said, it may be worth an appeal. Information on the Scope website can be found here. Also, it may be worth contacting Citizens Advice has they can help you with the appeal process. We all wish you the very best of luck and please do keep us updated about this!  
    Community Partner
    Scope

    Tell us what you think?
    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
    Yadnad said:
    jules13 said:
     For example the assessor stated I can’t lower myself independently into a bath but has only stated I need an aid washing (b) which contradicts what she said about needing help to lower in the bath? But how can I get evidence on this? Also she has put that I can walk 20 metres and no more than 50 but I stated the furthest I walk is into the doctors with my crutches and I need to stop twice walking in there which is about 20metres from car park. Again how can I prove this? 
    As regards the aid problem, that is right. you stated that you could not lower yourself into the bath - the assessor has said that you could have an aid to do that for you. I have an electric bath chair lift that lowers me into and out of the bath. This was supplied by Social Services. But in my case even with that aid they disagreed with Social Services saying that it was a choice thing and not a need thing.

    Extremely difficult to prove distances if the assessor thinks that you are over egging the pudding. You say under 20 they say over 20 but no more than 50.

    I managed to get round that point by having the spinal unit at the hospital test my mobility. They put me on a walking machine and after 10 metres or so I fell off twice. That report was sent to the DWP/assessor but was originally ignored by the assessor who said I could walk at least 200 metres without difficulty. The DWP  eventually saw sense and over ruled the assessor based on the hospital report.
    It’s a hard one as my husband physically helps me in and out of the bath, so I would count that as assistance not an aid, I need help to get my legs over the bath and then he has to help me lower etc, as for getting out I try and pull myself up and my husband again takes my weight to sit me in the side of the bath and then helps me twist round and holds me while I stand, he then has to help me walk to the bedroom which is a matter of 3 metres, as I’m shakey and  very unbalanced. I feel like they need to come and see what I do lol 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited August 2018
    jules13 said:
    Yadnad said:
     the furthest I walk is into the doctors with my crutches and I need to stop twice walking in there which is about 20metres

    It’s a hard one as my husband physically helps me in and out of the bath, so I would count that as assistance not an aid, I need help to get my legs over the bath and then he has to help me lower etc, as for getting out I try and pull myself up and my husband again takes my weight to sit me in the side of the bath and then helps me twist round and holds me while I stand, he then has to help me walk to the bedroom which is a matter of 3 metres, as I’m shakey and  very unbalanced. I feel like they need to come and see what I do lol 
    The whole of that activity (apart from getting your legs over the bath edge) there are aids that you could have that would avoid the need for anybody to help you.

    The bath chair that I have works this way. Being undressed I then sit on the seat which is at bath height. I put my legs over as the seat turns to face the taps (the seat moves through 90') Then the seat drops me and it into the water. To get out the reverse happens - seat goes up, legs over the bath and the seat turns. 

    Aids for getting up or down to/from a seated position is dealt with by using grab rails at the side of the bath. 

    The only help I need is someone to dry my legs, back and hair for me.

    You mention that you need help to walk 3 metres to the bedroom, but previously you admitted to being able to walk approx. 7 metres before you have to stop
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    For an appeal, I would ask for help from cab or welfare rights. They should advise you how to get evidence where possible. Good luck
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
    Yadnad said:
    jules13 said:
    Yadnad said:
     the furthest I walk is into the doctors with my crutches and I need to stop twice walking in there which is about 20metres

    It’s a hard one as my husband physically helps me in and out of the bath, so I would count that as assistance not an aid, I need help to get my legs over the bath and then he has to help me lower etc, as for getting out I try and pull myself up and my husband again takes my weight to sit me in the side of the bath and then helps me twist round and holds me while I stand, he then has to help me walk to the bedroom which is a matter of 3 metres, as I’m shakey and  very unbalanced. I feel like they need to come and see what I do lol 
    The whole of that activity (apart from getting your legs over the bath edge) there are aids that you could have that would avoid the need for anybody to help you.

    The bath chair that I have works this way. Being undressed I then sit on the seat which is at bath height. I put my legs over as the seat turns to face the taps (the seat moves through 90') Then the seat drops me and it into the water. To get out the reverse happens - seat goes up, legs over the bath and the seat turns. 

    Aids for getting up or down to/from a seated position is dealt with by using grab rails at the side of the bath. 

    The only help I need is someone to dry my legs, back and hair for me.

    You mention that you need help to walk 3 metres to the bedroom, but previously you admitted to being able to walk approx. 7 metres before you have to stop
    Yes if I’ve had a lift to the doctors I can walk into the doctors which I do need to stop during but I try to carry on as soon as I can, but after having a bath/shower I struggle to walk the landing to the bedroom. That is what I’m on about. 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    I can understand that you would be physically weakened from having a bath and then walking.
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
    My award for mobility I’m fine with, myself and my doctors did think I would get the enhanced but I’m actually happy with that, but my daily living I’m not happy with, this is the first time I have had to apply for PIP, I’m sorry that I’m asking a few questions I’m just hoping other people’s experiences can help, I obviously wasn’t getting my point and situation across, I’m not saying I can’t walk those few metres all the time I’m just explaining how I am after a bath/shower. For example if I had a bath at 10am there is no way I can walk 20 metres 2 hours later, this is what I’m trying to say, but days I’m not having a bath then I can walk as far as 20, I was getting confused with aid and assistance I guess because I don’t have any aids to help apart from chairs that my hubby moves from room to room, he helps me with everything. So at this moment I do need assistance as I don’t have anything, I’m currently waiting for an appointment with the occupational therapist to suggest and get me things to help, but I’ve nothing as yet as my illness/condition is getting worse as the months go on. Thank you for those that have helped and suggested things. 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2018
    Thats what the site is for and im sure you will get further advice. You do know that the process appealing etc can take a long time? So perhaps that will work in your favour as you are waiting for help with some things. 
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
    Thank you @debbiedo49 I’m planning on going to CAB next week. Thank you for your help. And thank you for not talking down to me you have helped xx
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Personally in this case I would be looking for a Social Services assessment on needs as well as a carers assessment  
  • jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
    Yadnad said:
    Personally in this case I would be looking for a Social Services assessment on needs as well as a carers assessment  
    Why social services? 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Because social services do both of these assessments. You can either self refer or ask your GP to refer you, self referring is quicker. 
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
    Because social services do both of these assessments. You can either self refer or ask your GP to refer you, self referring is quicker. 
    Thank you xx 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,007 Disability Gamechanger
    You need an OT assessment. That will look at possible aids and appliances. The fact that much of the process can be replaced by aids doesn’t matter if it’s quicker or safer to have another person assist. An OT can advise on that. 

    It is okay to disagree with the content of the HCP report but that shouldn’t be the focus of any challenge. You need to focus on the points you ought to have scored and why. In terms of evidence the best you have is your own detailed descriptions.
  • jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
    You need an OT assessment. That will look at possible aids and appliances. The fact that much of the process can be replaced by aids doesn’t matter if it’s quicker or safer to have another person assist. An OT can advise on that. 

    It is okay to disagree with the content of the HCP report but that shouldn’t be the focus of any challenge. You need to focus on the points you ought to have scored and why. In terms of evidence the best you have is your own detailed descriptions.
    Thank you, typically my OT appointment isn’t until after my surgery in 2 weeks as I will need more help after the surgery so my doctor saw no point in me seeing the OT before, as I will need more help afterwards. I did think that at least I can get help now. 
    I haven’t spoke about the assessors thoughts or what she didn’t see, I have simple to stated where I think I should of gained points and why, (how I deal with this situation, what I have to do and how much help I need) thanks for your help xx
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    jules13 said:
    You need an OT assessment. That will look at possible aids and appliances. The fact that much of the process can be replaced by aids doesn’t matter if it’s quicker or safer to have another person assist. An OT can advise on that. 

    It is okay to disagree with the content of the HCP report but that shouldn’t be the focus of any challenge. You need to focus on the points you ought to have scored and why. In terms of evidence the best you have is your own detailed descriptions.
    Thank you, typically my OT appointment isn’t until after my surgery in 2 weeks as I will need more help after the surgery so my doctor saw no point in me seeing the OT before, as I will need more help afterwards. I did think that at least I can get help now. 
    I haven’t spoke about the assessors thoughts or what she didn’t see, I have simple to stated where I think I should of gained points and why, (how I deal with this situation, what I have to do and how much help I need) thanks for your help xx
    Please remember any OT assessment should be looking at you as you were when you filled out the claim form and not weeks/months later even if your difficulties increase.
    If it did go to appeal the Tribunal will only consider what difficulties you had and the impact of them as at the date of the original claim.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,007 Disability Gamechanger
    I’d be surprised if an OT would do that. They can’t comment on what you were like in the past unless they did an assessment in the past.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    I agree Mike, but it's also no point in having one months after the claim date especially if the poster will be worse following future surgery.
    This comes back to my point, when do you ask for one. In hindsight one should have taken place a month or so before making the claim.
    Isn't this the difference between being proactive and reactive?

  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    When I went to tribunal I was asked about how things affect me now, in several different ways. So I disgree. It is definitely worth being prepared for that. Good luck.
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,007 Disability Gamechanger
    The only reason you’ll have been asked that is if you suggest there’s been a deterioration and they want details in order to look at suggesting you didn’t qualify on the date of claim but might now and therefore need to make a new claim. It can also therefore be used to refuse the original claim under appeal.

    Legally, a tribunal can only look at how you were on the date of claim/decision. If they’re asking about now then they’re looking at it for very specific reasons and most often it’s because an appellant has foolishly mentioned deterioration thinking that’s a winning tactic when it’s the opposite. 
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    @debbiedo49 I too was asked about how things effect me now at the tribunal so when you say “an appellant has foolishly mentioned deterioration” @mikehughescq I would beg to differ. I did not once even mention how I was now during my tribunal hearing. They could quite clearly see how I was now
  • jules13jules13 Member Posts: 63 Connected
    The OT appointment was booked and I did not think about it having anything to do with my assessment just that until I have the appointment I don’t have any aids around the house, and as I will need more so after my op the doctors have put it off cause of funding and cost, that is all. I wasn’t even going to mention the OT assessment I’m due, I was simple just going to comment that I have no aids around the house as I’m yet to see the OT, 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,007 Disability Gamechanger
    susan48 said:
    @debbiedo49 I too was asked about how things effect me now at the tribunal so when you say “an appellant has foolishly mentioned deterioration” @mikehughescq I would beg to differ. I did not once even mention how I was now during my tribunal hearing. They could quite clearly see how I was now
    The law is crystal clear and aiways has been. A tribunal can only look at evidence down to the date of decision. I’m not saying you weren’t asked. I’m saying it’s not the norm and when it is asked it’s for very specific reasons. 
Sign in or join us to comment.