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If we lose the tribunal, how soon can we reapply?

PippaT1966PippaT1966 Member Posts: 37 Connected
I'm writing on behalf of my 20 year old daughter, who has chronic fatigue and a possible cardiovascular issue, and who has lost her PIP initial assessment and then her mandatory reconsideration (which they sent back after 2 weeks and didn't take anything into account). When she did the self-scoring test she was scored the higher rate for the daily living and the basic rate for the mobility part of the test. 
We've booked in with the Citizens Advice PIP adviser to fill in the SSCS1A form to go to a tribunal, but I'm losing faith she'll have any success. Unfortunately, her health is actually deteriorating - when would we be able to reapply with new evidence? We started the process with the first form in March 2018.
Thank you.


  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If she's not successful after the Tribunal and there's no error in law made in making the decision then there's not timescale as to how long you have to wait before re-applying. However if she's not successful after the Tribunal there's no point in re-apply if she's going to send the same evidence as she's sent this time. I'd advise her to get some help with the Tribunal process from her local welfare rights.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • PippaT1966PippaT1966 Member Posts: 37 Connected
    Ok, thank you. The trouble is, she has been under 4 different consultants for different health conditions, and she has bits of evidence from each one. We're thinking if she could get one consultant to provide a supporting letter it might help. Added to this, she is getting worse, but varies so much from day to day. Some days she can't leave the house at all, and is barely functional. She's supposed to do a 15 minute walk every day to keep her muscles moving, but on a bad day, she lies down for the entire day apart from forcing herself out for 15 minutes. There isn't anything in her many consultant letters which shows this.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The Tribunal will only be able to take in consideration what she was like at the time the decision was made, any worsening of condition will not help the decision.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • angel137angel137 Member Posts: 51 Courageous
    I'm sorry to hear about your daughter.
    Try not to lose faith at this point. Remember, around 70% of appeal tribunals are successful. As someone who has had ME /CFS and fibro. for many years, I know that it seems a bit of a battle to get anyone to understand the true nature and debilitating severity of this illness.
    From your post, it sounds like you have a lot of support from specialists and Consultants. I have never had that much support! I'm so glad to hear that your daughter and your family, does have the support.

    Don't feel too down about not getting PIP in the first instance. From the anecdotal evidence that I've seen across the board, on various different sites, I would say a lot of people with ME/CFS have to go to tribunal to get a Pip award. Don't worry too much about this. It is a chance to be heard. Get good advice from CAB or similar. Also, benefits advisors are on many sites. Here's one: www.benefitsandwork.co.uk.

    Re: her treatment; if she is having a bad day and can barely get out of bed, feels really exhausted doing anything at all, then that day she should not be forcing herself to go out and do a 15 minute walk. Please ask your consultant-the one who suggested this regime-about this. When exhausted, don't fight it.  It can worsen the condition. She should only be doing exercise when she feels capable of it.
    Also, if she is forcing herself to do a 15 minute walk every day, then the DWP can argue that she is able to mobilise every single day, even if that's the only thing that she does that day. It means she can mobilise for the majority of days. But, if she goes very slowly and/ or has to rest, or if it causes her a lot of pain and exhaustion to do it, then that should be stated and taken into consideration. You need to explain fully what happens when she mobilises and any negative affects that occur b4, during and after movement. PEM is usually a core symptom of ME/CFS and fibromyalgia. 
    You mentioned that her condition seemed to be deteriorating. If her condition has worsened,  and you were not successful at appeal, then that is one reason why you could reapply, stating that her condition has deteriorated since her first application.
    But don't discount the tribunal. The odds are in her favour there. :)

  • PippaT1966PippaT1966 Member Posts: 37 Connected
    Thanks for the advice everyone. She was put on graded exercise therapy a year ago, and after only a day of it, she was in a terrible state. She had CBT and pacing was more effective, so she does pay attention to her physical state.There's also some underlying blood pressure and blood volume issues, so each consultant's point of view is 'wait and see'. 
    I'm feeling a bit better about this all after seeing the responses. 
  • PippaT1966PippaT1966 Member Posts: 37 Connected
    Hi everyone. We're now 11 months down the line from our last post and we have finally had the tribunal. I'm not going to sugar it, it was very, very difficult. They insisted my daughter speak for herself even though she has severe brain fog, then they kept asking questions in different ways to try and trip her up, as her answers were inconsistent (she got the timeline of her diagnosis wrong). The tribunal ran over and was 1 hour 15 minutes in the end, which is an incredibly long time for someone with chronic fatigue / ME to get through.
    I was convinced we hadn't made our case, as they seemed to disbelieve everything we told them. At the end they asked if the assessors interpretation of my daughter's condition was accurate (the first report stated that she was fully engaged mentally and easily answered all questions). I said that on the day I'd had to interpret the questions for her, and that she had rested for days before the interview and was wiped out for 2 weeks afterward. 
    We've received notification in the post that we have WON! They have overruled the DWP's decision and she has been awarded the enhanced rate of daily living component and the enhanced rate of mobility.
    Thank you to everyone on here for their support. The entire process has left us feeling battered and bruised but I'm so glad we didn't just roll over and accept their inaccurate report. 
  • JurphJurph Member Posts: 346 Pioneering
    Congratulations @PippaT1966

    I won mine last week too. They are definitely seeing a lot of Fibro/ME cases.
  • PippaT1966PippaT1966 Member Posts: 37 Connected
    Well done! It seemed actually quite cruel how they kept pushing her ('try and focus' 'please wake up an answer our questions') but we got there in the end. 

  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,998

    Scope community team

    That's brilliant news @PippaT1966! I'm so sorry it was so hard on her, but I'm so pleased that both this and her UC have now been sorted. 
    Senior Community Partner
  • PippaT1966PippaT1966 Member Posts: 37 Connected
    Thanks! She was awarded 24 points for each component, so it wasn't even borderline!
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