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Upper tribunal has referred my appeal back to first tier tribunal

shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
How long will I wait for ftt judge to make a decision I put my claim for pip in last July 2017 cut a long process short the utt judge and secretary of state agreed there had been errors in law and now I have to wait for it to go back to ftt judge does anyone know what happens next 

Replies

  • Peasmold_01Peasmold_01 Member Posts: 144 Pioneering
    It should be referred back 'with direction'. Basically the UTT have directed the original Tribunal to implement their (UTT) ruling  You have possibly created a precedent. Good luck  
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    Oh ok do I have to go in person or will they make the decision do you know how long it takes and his dirrecdir was that both the claimant me and the appellant the secretary of state both agree that there was an errors in law and the judge should be given the secretary of state submission 
  • Peasmold_01Peasmold_01 Member Posts: 144 Pioneering
    The answer to that question is, if the UTT gave a direction to the lower Tribunal, then possibly, and I say, possibly, it will be a paper judgement. i.e. the lower Tribunal judge will implement the ruling of the UTT. You will be notified if you are required to return to the LTH (Lower Tribunal Hearing)
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    The upper tribunal only decide whether you were treated unfairly. If so you get another chance to go to the tribunal again, usually with a direction that the original tribunal members are excluded. At least that is what happened to me.

    You need to wait for a new tribunal date and, unfortunately, go through it again.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    So it could take up to another year thank you for your help
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    I have a date for novNovem can I take letter from gp with me or have I to post it 
    Ty 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'd advise you to send it to HMCTS ASAP but make sure all of your details are on it so they know it's yours.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    Just wanted to let you know I won my appeal didn't want to go in person but did and won and it wasn't as awful as I have read on here from a few people's experiences .
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,760 Disability Gamechanger
    Congratulations on winning your appeal @shell73 :)
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • 70keepgoing70keepgoing Member Posts: 12 Listener
    Hi I'm new on here but been reading many posts which have kept me rested, I have also been allowed for my pip to be returned back to a new ftt for preferably an oral hearing, my assessment was July 2017 and I've never given up although at times I wanted to, I'm glad I didn't, so like you I'm now awaiting for a date - at the date of my assessment I had diagnosis of osteoarthritis but since then also diagnosed with fibromyalgia - I sent this to the upper tribunal, although I know it's only what affects you at the time of assessment that is discussed should I ensure that I also mention the fm? Good luck with your next hearing - it will give inspiration to others to not give up
  • 70keepgoing70keepgoing Member Posts: 12 Listener
    Sorry I hadn't seen that you had won, congratulations and I'm glad it's now all over for you, it gives me strength
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    Congratulations 
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    Thank you everybody and iwas actually appealing for the daily living care discriptor 9 as I only scored 6points for care but 8points for mobility so I have been receiving the standered rate mobility and was awarded the standered rate for care but also awarded enhanced mobility in which I wasn't expecting at all it was a long time waiting all but it's definitely worth going for appeal 
  • 70keepgoing70keepgoing Member Posts: 12 Listener
    I'm really pleased for you, it's been a long time waiting and stressful for me, so hearing others who have gone this for gives me encouragement and the strength, I got 0 for everything, I haven't had a date yet
  • Rickyboy123Rickyboy123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    capita awarded 4 points on mobility and 2 on daily living now I got 7 daily living 0 mobility I'm happy with the 7 but the 4 that got took away and 2 should of stayed the same if capita granted me 4 and 2 they ovousaly had evidence so the court was wrong there higher than capita they shouldn't of took the points away as I do struggle with mobility are my right what I'm saying plus capita are in the wrong cause my health professional wrote to them saying if you need more evidence he will write more but capita never emailed or asked so are my in right or are they bit confused cause why would capita award me them then first tier take them away so stressed 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2018
    capita awarded 4 points on mobility and 2 on daily living now I got 7 daily living 0 mobility I'm happy with the 7 but the 4 that got took away and 2 should of stayed the same if capita granted me 4 and 2 they ovousaly had evidence so the court was wrong there higher than capita they shouldn't of took the points away as I do struggle with mobility are my right what I'm saying plus capita are in the wrong cause my health professional wrote to them saying if you need more evidence he will write more but capita never emailed or asked so are my in right or are they bit confused cause why would capita award me them then first tier take them away so stressed 
    Your questions were already answered regarding this. You need to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings from HMCTS. Without this and finding an error in law you can't proceed any further with this claim. It doesn't matter how many times you ask the question the answer will remain the same.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @shell73 great news, well done!
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,655 Disability Gamechanger
    I think you may be misled by a number of the above posts. You won your case at UT because the SoS agreed there was an error of law. If both parties agree then the case can be referred back to FTT without a detailed UT decision. So, the first question would be whether or not you agreed to a brief referral or requested the UT provided a detailed decision.

    If no detailed decision was provided (and it certainly doesn’t sound like you objected to a short decision) then @Peasmold_01 is wrong to suggest any kind of precedent might have been set. A precedent requires a full decision and most likely a profound disagreement between the SoS and the UT. Your case sounds a pretty routine UT referral back precisely because everyone agreed there was an error of law. A bread and butter case for all concerned. 

    Secondly, a summary decision might contain some brief directions but a FTT is a complete rehearing and they are at liberty to completely ignore such directions and frequently/mostly do. If the only direction you know of is that the SoS submission to UT should be included in the appeal bundle then I think it’s safe to conclude that’s just routine admin. and your next tribunal are free to do as they see fit. 

    Thirdly, no UT refers a case back for a “paper judgement”. There is no such thing. A case gets referred back for a fresh hearing. You will not be at the back of the queue. Your case will be given priority and will always be heard by a completely different panel. It will be listed for an oral hearing unless you object. Even if you do object the tribunal will have to decide whether an oral hearing is needed anyway. 

    Finally you should be aware that HMCTS will relist quickly so if you’re availability is restricted by holidays, hospital appointments etc. you need to ring/write in now before it gets listed for a date when you’re not around. 

  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    It took about 6 weeks from the letter from the utt till the appeal it was a long and hard process  mine was also last July 2017 but you have to try to put it to the back of your mind cause it is upsetting and stressfully daunting but this is the last hurdle when you get here 

  • 70keepgoing70keepgoing Member Posts: 12 Listener
    Thanks. I really hope mine is soon. It feels a long time ago since that first assessment and I'm glad I didn't give up, Ive asked my gp for a letter too and my consultant. Did you post or take it along with you? Did you have a representative attend with you? 
  • Peasmold_01Peasmold_01 Member Posts: 144 Pioneering
    Operative word, POSSIBLY
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,655 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2018
    Operative word, POSSIBLY
    It’s completely irrelevant. You cannot “possibly” create a precedent in these circumstances. You are simply incorrect. There is no possibility here at all and I’ve no idea where you would get the idea that there is. Sorry to be so blunt but it’s bit of a struggle to be anything but black and white when something is so black and white. 
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    In the letter from the upper tier tribunal the judge put an example of another pip case which had similar errors in law as mine did so this made it more easier he gave a direction with out reasons .
  • 70keepgoing70keepgoing Member Posts: 12 Listener
    Yes mine was the same. They gave me an example of another case that had same errors of law on and gave directions without reasons. I'm hoping this is over by the end of the year 
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    It will be as the comments above say your appeal will be put as priority so they look at it at the earliest date and I got 3weeks notice and took a up to date letter from gp with me in which they took of me and made copies when I got there and all the questions was based around the letter and my original claim form from July last year and decision there and then 
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    I haven't heard anything about payments yet was expecting to get new payment when my monthly mobility payment but nothing yet not even a letter when I rang last week they said the received paperwork on the 5th of November and said it was no longer with case worker and has gone to payments that was last Monday how long to wait now anybody know thanks 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Only DWP can answer that question, i'm afraid.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    All received now thanks now do I inform ESA or is it all automatically connected to all other benefits 
    Thanks 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If you're talking about the Severe disability premium, then no it's not automatically paid. You have to apply for this by ringing ESA. To be eligible for this payment you must live alone or be classed as living alone and no one must be claiming carers allowance for looking after you.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • shell73shell73 Member Posts: 56 Connected
    Ok thanks I'm living alone and no one claims carers for me I will ring them today thank you for your help 
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