PIP tribunal fail... Help!! — Scope | Disability forum
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PIP tribunal fail... Help!!

Kttyn
Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
I have just received a letter from the tribunal I attended yesterday denying me daily care but awarding me mobility. 
All the evidence i gave them, the doctors letters, the early help case assessment and young carers case worker.  Everything and the fact I was a wreck throughout the whole 45 minutes.. And they have refused it 

I desperately need the care element, can anyone help me / advise me on what I need to do next? 
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Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 31,206 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    I'm sorry to hear this. You now have 28 days to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings. From this you'll need to find an error in law in making the decision, with the error in law them i'm afraid you won't be able to appeal the decision. You'll need to find someone that knows what they're doing to look at both of these once you receive them.

    Re-apply will be of little use too, if you use the same evidence you used for this claim. Good luck.
  • Chloe_Scope
    Chloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,545 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Kttyn and a warm welcome to the community, I am so sorry to hear this! Everything @poppy123456 has said is correct. Here is also a link to the appeal section of the Scope website, hope this helps. Many of our members have been through this process so if you need anything at all then please do not hesitate to be in touch. We all wish you the very best of luck!
    Scope

  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Hi @poppy123456 @Chloe_Scope thank you. What's an error in law?  I just don't understand how they could disregard all the evidence they were given.  Plus I sent more the week before and they said they hadn't received it, then at the end of the 45 minutes told me it had just come through.. But I got the letter the very next day? The daily care 'dr' asked me like 2 questions....

    This has all been going on since July 31st last year :'( I'm almost at breaking point.. Esp as after esa messing up from last June I've only just had my medical  and they have deemed me fit for work .. Again disregarding all the medical evidence I had provided. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 31,206 Disability Gamechanger
    HI,
    An error in law means they would have had to have used the wrong legislation or interpreted the legislation wrongly. You need to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings, as stated above.

    Did you have a representative or did you do all of it yourself?
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    No I did it all myself :'( I will request them.. Do I ring the number on top of the letter I received today? They really like preying on the vulnerable don't they. :(
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 31,206 Disability Gamechanger
    I believe you need to email the Tribunal to request both of these.
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Ok I'll do that now.. May I keep this thread open if that's ok? 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 31,206 Disability Gamechanger
    It may take a while to receive both of those once they've been requested because there's no timescales. Threads aren't closed unless there's a problem, so yes it will be kept open. Good luck!
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    So... Failing to have regards to material evidence is an 'error in law'  or being influenced by immaterial evidence? Such as the fact I went on holiday, even though it was with a carer and my sons who are my young carers.  Well they have done those things then.   It's not all hopeless then?. 


  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 31,206 Disability Gamechanger
    As i said you'll need expert advise regarding this when you receive the statement of reasons, I'm not expert.

    It's great to have evidence to support a claim but if that evidence doesn't prove the descriptors apply then it's pointless having the evidence. An error in law is difficult to find and that's why you need expert advice because there may not be any errors.
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    I have just sent an email asking it to be 'set aside'... Something that's listed in the letter I got... Either for the decision to be changed or a new tribunal. The reason being I sent all my extra info before the deadline but the judge didn't get it till 10 minutes before my tribunal ended. I got the letter of their decision the next day so I don't think they took any of it into account. What do you all think ?
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Dwp wernt present x 
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    I didn't throw it in at the last minute... This had been going on since July last year.  Eventually they responded to a letter stating how my health was deteriorating with it all and then boom. . My tribunal date was 4 weeks away with them needing extra info within 3 weeks  
    I had the letters from my doctor all ready I was just waiting for the mental health team. And I sent it all in a week before like they told me to.  :(
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    They told me as we were finished that the emails I had sent over a week previously had just arrived in their inbox.  I had all the same info with me but they said they didn't have time to go through it.  So I asked them at the end of they were going to go through the evidence i has sent and they said I would get the decision by the end of the week  I got it the next day with us really suspicious as they had tribunals all day. 
  • Kellans38
    Kellans38 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    I am going through same I just been to court she had not change wht benefits said I had been called three mouths early 2 get assment and she said she had only just got my information  but it's not new I have heart failure seen 2016 so where she said going of that she didn't even get me on the bed and I just been through court and they said I was fit 4 work I don't get any of it because I have always had same but 4 benefit saying they just got it I no there lieing because I always had same and all my notes but november  last year they taken me out the group and in 2 working and I no it's wrong and courts didn't look at anything what was In front of them and they new of my problems so how benfit r saying all this now and it's new information I no it's not when it happened in 2016 and was all sent 2 benefits and courts but I don't no where I go now just wait on on them but it's still not going 2 help me when I should near of gone through it anyway from start because of my heart problems like she said I shouldn't of been call up there because of my health but it's not  change seen I was taken out the group courts still didn't change disgusting  what they do to people
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    How do you know that all of your panel had tribunals the next day? 

    Nothing suspicious in the end of week/next day comment. Most tribunals make same day decisions but they’re typed and distributed by the clerk and the speed of that depends on whether they’re doing more outdoor clerking the next day or heading back to HQ. Unless they specifically discuss it with the clerk most tribunals wouldn’t know what the clerk is doing next. 

    If they had the evidence and didn’t want to go through it on the day that says 

    a) out of time.
    b) the evidence they had seen and heard went overwhelmingly against you and anything new was unlikely to change their decision. 

    Both of the above could be errors of law (breach of natural justice/failing to take into account relevant considerations) but they’re not ordinarily set aside territory. However, sometimes a DJ will set aside a tribunal even when they shouldn’t just because they have issues with the judge or wish to make a point.
    It was up on the board that I was the first of the tribunals that day.. And they were every hour from 10am to 5pm. For them to get their decision in the post for me to get the next day is cutting it really tight.

    The evidence in my favour was overwhelming.  My early help case worker even wrote a statement that should my children have to continue in the role as my main carers then there may be a child protection issue... Nothing against me, I'm trying my hardest but I'm not well... They even had that and still denied it ..

    The guy sat in the middle was a complete ass..... Wasn't interested in what I was saying and kept putting my points down :( 
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    This is a PIP thread. You appear to be talking about ESA.
    No. . I'm talking about my pip tribunal 
  • Kttyn
    Kttyn Member Posts: 17 Connected
    Kttyn said:
    How do you know that all of your panel had tribunals the next day? 

    Nothing suspicious in the end of week/next day comment. Most tribunals make same day decisions but they’re typed and distributed by the clerk and the speed of that depends on whether they’re doing more outdoor clerking the next day or heading back to HQ. Unless they specifically discuss it with the clerk most tribunals wouldn’t know what the clerk is doing next. 

    If they had the evidence and didn’t want to go through it on the day that says 

    a) out of time.
    b) the evidence they had seen and heard went overwhelmingly against you and anything new was unlikely to change their decision. 

    Both of the above could be errors of law (breach of natural justice/failing to take into account relevant considerations) but they’re not ordinarily set aside territory. However, sometimes a DJ will set aside a tribunal even when they shouldn’t just because they have issues with the judge or wish to make a point.
    It was up on the board that I was the first of the tribunals that day.. And they were every hour from 10am to 5pm. For them to get their decision in the post for me to get the next day is cutting it really tight.

    The evidence in my favour was overwhelming.  My early help case worker even wrote a statement that should my children have to continue in the role as my main carers then there may be a child protection issue... Nothing against me, I'm trying my hardest but I'm not well... They even had that and still denied it ..

    The guy sat in the middle was a complete ass..... Wasn't interested in what I was saying and kept putting my points down :( 
    Tribunals run from 10 to 12 and then 2 to 4 everywhere. They make most decisions on the day; issue a summary decision and usually give a quick verbal summary too unless way behind. Clerk types the summary decision up at the end of each case. Almost no decisions are not made on the day and all will be either given to a DWP PO on the day if one is in attendance, or posted out that night. 

    It is very rare for someone to lose a case when the evidence is truly overwhelming. Your example of the early help case worker is a fine example. It is literally nothing to the point and the tribunal will also have smelt possible BS.

    Firstly, the only relevance of the care provided by your children is whether their assistance scores points under specific activities or not. Secondly, young carers are not a child protection issue unless something else is going on. If that is what you think amounts to good evidence then, to be blunt, you were poorly advised by someone somewhere along the line.
    I'm going to stop you there as I really don't like your tone.. I had doctors letters stating how ill I was.. Mental health team, early help n young carers team... Not of them understand why I were denied daily living.  I'm not trying to pull a con . Who the hell would put themselves through all this for 14 months if it wasn't genuine? 
  • debbiedo49
    debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,904 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sorry @Kttyn if you are feeling unhappy as we know this can be a very emotive subject. Also please remember we come here for advice to give it or receive it. We are not here to upset folks. The written word can be a powerful thing good and bad. Btw my son ( 19) is my carer at home and I didn't take him to tribunal as I was aware that he could blame himself if I failed. It's so hard to have to involve your children and I know I sometimes think is it fair to him? You do feel is this "normal" and will he be classed as vulnerable? Off topic soz.

Brightness

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