PIP, DLA and AA
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No PIP2 submitted

YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
edited October 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
I just can't understand this. If someone is deemed 'vulnerable' by the DWP they will not be penalised for not returning the PIP2 form. They will be offered a face to face assessment for the assessor to draw out the health problems and discuss with the claimant or their carer in attendance what impacts are involved and to what extent.

Now if you send in a PIP2 form the assessor very rarely goes to that extreme in trying to understand the issues involved and the impact. In my experience it is generally just a yes/no exercise.

Why? Surely both categories of claimants should be treated the same. Otherwise those who send in a poorly completed PIP2 are more likely to not be recommended the correct amount of points. Whereas those with a properly filled out PIP2 or no PIP2 at all will fair much better. 

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yadnad said:
    I just can't understand this. If someone is deemed 'vulnerable' by the DWP they will not be penalised for not returning the PIP2 form. They will be offered a face to face assessment for the assessor to draw out the health problems and discuss with the claimant or their carer in attendance what impacts are involved and to what extent.

    I've never heard of this for PIP, i know it exists for ESA for those with mental health conditions. Do you have a link at all please?

    As for the PIP2 forms and filling them in correctly. I didn't know this was true until i found out from this forum because when i had help filling my daughters forms in they were filled out badly. Not enough of information about how her conditions affect her etc etc.

    I was a little worried in fact, even though i'd sent in reports from CLDT of past assessments that went into great detail about how she's affected day to day by her conditions. I even went as far as highlighting the most important parts that clearly proved those descriptors applied to her. I did this so that they wouldn't be missed, even if they decided not to read all of the evidence properly, you couldn't miss the bright highlighter pen that was used.

    She did have a face to face assessment and after that the HCP contacted 2 people on the list to ask just 1 question. The report was honest and truthful, with just one very small contradiction which did cost her 2 points and for this particular descriptor she only scored 2 but it should have been 4 points. Her scored was 18 for daily living and 12 for mobility (following and planning a journey) so even though that form wasn't filled in correctly they did what they should have and looked at the evidence i sent. They went with the recommendations in the report and awarded her like for like. Of course with Enhanced for both parts i didn't question the loss of those 2 points.

    The only reason i had help with the forms is because it's so different when you're someones appointee because you have to fill those forms in as if you're that person, rather than filling them in on their behalf.

    Had those forms been filled in correctly she may have had a paper based assessment, who knows. We'll see what happens during her review as i will be completing those forms myself this time.

    Now i always advise others to fill out those forms with as much information as possible but for those that haven't done this and their form has already been returned don't panic because you do have some honest HCPs that will look at the evidence and write a honest report. 


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member


    I've never heard of this for PIP, i know it exists for ESA for those with mental health conditions. Do you have a link at all please?

    As for the PIP2 forms and filling them in correctly. I didn't know this was true until i found out from this forum because when i had help filling my daughters forms in they were filled out badly. Not enough of information about how her conditions affect her etc etc.

    I was a little worried in fact, even though i'd sent in reports from CLDT of past assessments that went into great detail about how she's affected day to day by her conditions. I even went as far as highlighting the most important parts that clearly proved those descriptors applied to her. I did this so that they wouldn't be missed, even if they decided not to read all of the evidence properly, you couldn't miss the bright highlighter pen that was used.

    She did have a face to face assessment and after that the HCP contacted 2 people on the list to ask just 1 question. The report was honest and truthful, with just one very small contradiction which did cost her 2 points and for this particular descriptor she only scored 2 but it should have been 4 points. Her scored was 18 for daily living and 12 for mobility (following and planning a journey) so even though that form wasn't filled in correctly they did what they should have and looked at the evidence i sent. They went with the recommendations in the report and awarded her like for like. Of course with Enhanced for both parts i didn't question the loss of those 2 points.

    The only reason i had help with the forms is because it's so different when you're someones appointee because you have to fill those forms in as if you're that person, rather than filling them in on their behalf.

    Had those forms been filled in correctly she may have had a paper based assessment, who knows. We'll see what happens during her review as i will be completing those forms myself this time.

    Now i always advise others to fill out those forms with as much information as possible but for those that haven't done this and their form has already been returned don't panic because you do have some honest HCPs that will look at the evidence and write a honest report. 


    1.1.7 If the claimant questionnaire is not returned and the claimant has been identified as having a mental or cognitive impairment, the claim will be referred directly to the AP for assessment.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-1-the-assessment-process

    I can but only agree with you that there are some considerate and truthful assessors out there. It's such a shame that the poor ones are talked about more than the good ones. Like they say it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the reputation of them all.
    Mind you I must have been extremely unlucky that I had three really bad assessors that wrote reports that were so far from the truth, refusing to state what had been discussed and what the independent evidence said
    I just couldn't face a fourth reprobate
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    You do seem to be very unlucky danday.
  • TardisTardis Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Sorry, I meant yadnad.  
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited October 2018
    Tardis said:
    Sorry, I meant yadnad.  
    ???????:  :/
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,980 Disability Gamechanger
    I think, as ever, there’s a bit of a misunderstanding here. The failure to return a PIP 2 can be dealt with in many different ways but if the claimant is already classed as vulnerable then all the guidance says is that the case is referred to the AP. That doesn’t mean a face to face decision. It means an assessment of how it might be best to proceed. The subsequent process may or may not be as for others. However, the problem most others have is the failure to assert their rights under EA10 and to describe their needs accurately. 
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    In 2015 I either didn't send my form or they didn't receive it. I'm pretty sure they didn't receive it, because my friend who helped me to fill it out remembers posting it. Anyway, I only found out that they didn't have it when I got the assessor's report, which said, "Used 2014 PIP2, as no PIP2 received in 2015". !! I assume that I was classed as vulnerable.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Waylay said:
    "Used 2014 PIP2, as no PIP2 received in 2015". !! I assume that I was classed as vulnerable.
    You may well have done.
    But it really does make a mockery of the arguments being put out by the DWP that regular re-assessments with updated evidence is the only way to ensure that the claimant is receiving the correct level of financial support.

  • tru88letru88le Posts: 95 Member
    Yadnad said:
    I just can't understand this. If someone is deemed 'vulnerable' by the DWP they will not be penalised for not returning the PIP2 form. They will be offered a face to face assessment for the assessor to draw out the health problems and discuss with the claimant or their carer in attendance what impacts are involved and to what extent.

    Now if you send in a PIP2 form the assessor very rarely goes to that extreme in trying to understand the issues involved and the impact. In my experience it is generally just a yes/no exercise.

    Why? Surely both categories of claimants should be treated the same. Otherwise those who send in a poorly completed PIP2 are more likely to not be recommended the correct amount of points. Whereas those with a properly filled out PIP2 or no PIP2 at all will fair much better. 
    They are treated t he same, they are giving a second chance opportunity to those who by way of some vulnerability have failed to rwply in time or keep a deadline. I get that all applicants are somewhat vulnerable but some are more. Vulnerable to time constraints or whatever and this way they will get a chance to sort it.

  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    Agreed, @Yadnad. The completely idiotic thing is that the 2014 assessment report was set aside by my tribunal, so he was basing many of his arguments on a document that had no standing.
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