PIP, DLA and AA
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DLA for 20 years and now 0 points on PIP!

MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
Hey all,
I just signed up to Scope because I am soo furious and didn't know where else to turn. I've been on DLA for about 20 years because of my congenital disabilities (mild hydrocephalus & spina bifida) and anxiety, depression and chronic pain. After 20 years of them deciding that I really do struggle and that I really am in pain, the DWP have suddenly cured me - right in time for Christmas!

My DLA is due to stop on 13th November and I now have to call up and request a copy of the report. Already, from the letter that I have received, I can see some inconsistencies. I said I need help with toileting? I never said that! Also, apparently the fact I went to my assessment and got a taxi (which my husband booked) means I can plan and follow an unfamiliar journey? Go fugure!

Fortunately, very fortunately, I have a tonne of stuff to sell on Ebay and I've gone minimalist so I only buy what I need, I'm also used to white label food and don't drink heavily, smoke or take drugs so I think (hope) I will be able to make ends meet for now. Hubby also has a reasonable job and said he'd take more hours for now if needs be (he's such a sweetie) so hopefully we'll get through this relatively unscathed. I now have to go through the MR and potentally (probably) appeal stage too, so it'smost likely going to be a very happy new year for me- NOT!

Sorry for the moan, all

Helen x



Replies

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,420 Disability Gamechanger
    Nothing to apologise for. PIP, like DLA, does not focus on the diagnosis but the consequences. The difference is in the way they assess that impact. So, it’s not they think you’re cured. 

    The success rate for MRs is 17% but for appeals where you attend and are represented it’s 71% so persistence is key. It’s easy enough to rip apart a HCP report but don’t put too much effort into that. Highlight 2 or 3 proveaable discrepancies (not ones where it’s your word against theirs) to make the point and then look at the strength of your own evidence. Showing issues with the HCP report will not get it disregarded. It just lessons the weight it’s given. If your own evidence doesn’t outweigh it then you could still lose. By evidence I’m not referring to medical evidence. You need to identify which points you score and why and then back that up with 2 or 3 recent examples per points scoring activity of what happened last time you did that activity.

    Now is the moment to get some face to face advice.
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    edited October 2018
    @mikehughescq thanks for that. I've been writing up my MR letter today and I've taken each point and said what I agree with and what I don't. I think it's important to highlight where you agree as well as where you disagree,otherwise you do just like you're tearing the HP apart.

    In my points, I have mentioned that I have aids to help me with life, and what activities they help me with. For example, it's more than just "needs help with..", I have a grab rail and step to get in and out of the bath, without it, I cannot shower at all. I have mentioned my adapted knives and cutlery under the 'prepring food' activity and pointed out that the fact that my husband was in the room with me was the support I needed to get through my assessment. I was tempted to take my adapted knives with me so that the HP could see them for herself but I gathered they might not like it too much if I pulled my "saw" out on the Maximus staff  :D 

    Helen x

    ETA: Trouble with getting face to face advice is that I'd need support to go and get it and hubby and Mum work full time! I'm going to write to my GP and ask if she can't throw any weight into things and i will include a copy of my diary (which I wrote before my F2F and she never asked to see) in with my letter. Here's hoping.
  • deb74deb74 Member Posts: 692 Pioneering
    hi mrswolfie2010. i also have spina bifida and hydrochephalus along with scoliosis and also cervical and lumbar spondylosis. i have been on pip for a couple of years and due to a shoulder injury was on esa. i went for an assessment and my esa was stopped 6 months after i had an operation on my shoulder. at the assessment i was also asked questions about my daily living which had nothing to do with me being on esa. I was awarded 0 points. the assessor basically decided there was nothing wrong with me. when i got a letter about the assesors decision i phoned up to check that my pip was safe. the assesor had made me out to sound like a liar. my actual pip assessment scored 8 points. i need aids to help me round the house and i quite often struggle to walk very far and have to keep stopping when i do walk due to significant pain. losing my esa was a nightmare! i had to go on the dole. I don't understand how they can stop you getting pip if you get dla. it should be a straightforward transfer from one benefit to the other. i hope you sort things out!
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    edited October 2018
    @deb74it's ridiculous! FWIW, my full medical history (if you're really interested) reads:

    • Mild hydrocephalus, arrested, non-shunted
    • Mild spina bifida
    • Mild scoliosis
    • Mild cerebral ataxia
    • Mild low-tone hearing loss
    • Endogenous depression
    • Generalised Anxiety Disorder
    • Chronic Regional Pain Syndrome -Type 2 - Causalgia
    • Obsessive Compulsive Disorder "traits"
    • Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder "traits"
    It's quite a list!

    I agree that it should have been a straight-forward transfer. Hydro, SB, scolio, ataxia & LT hearing loss are congenital, depression, anxiety were diagnosed in 1998 and the CRPS in 2001. I'm on ESA in the Support Group myself and I went through that with flying colours. The nurse just basically asked if I had suicidal thoughts because of my depression, noticed my hair was messy and my nails were a bit mucky and signed me off! It makes no sense at all! 

    Not sure why you're on the dole if you still have SB & hydro and need adaptations, did you go to appeal?

    Helen x

  • deb74deb74 Member Posts: 692 Pioneering
    hi mrsWolfie2210. i dont usually list my problems because i feel i sound like a hypercondriac but here it is. hydrochephalus, spina bifida, scoliosis, cervical and lumbar spondylosis, epilepsy, me and oesteoarthritis in my hips, and knees. my pip was not the issue i was awarded pip straight away after my assessment. it was my esa that stopped. i was told at the assessment that as long as i could lift one arm above my head i was well enough to work. i lifted my left arm above my head nut that wasn't the arm i had the operation on. i couldn't lift my right above elbow hight but he didn't care. i did appeal but heard nothing! i have now signed off the dole and started working for myself. i run a gift shop. i have always had problems keeping jobs due to my hydrochephalus amongst other things. the easiest thing for me is to work for myself and not have to worry about people moaning at me or laughing at me because i find a something hard to do.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi MrsWolfie2210

    I'm sorry you're going through all of that but please remember that PIP isn't about a diagnosis, it's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities.

    Good luck with the MR and Tribunal, if you get that far and most do. If it gets to Tribunal appearing in person will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour. Even better if you have a representative.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @deb74 funny you should say that, I've been considering self-employment too, Couldn't work in an office (anxiety) but I've wondered about going self-employed as a writer. I get a LOT of comments on my writing style so maybe.. just maybe, who knows?

    Helen x
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @poppy123456 thankyou, I'm hoping they'll settle at MR level. I'm going through and just picking out the points where I feel I have the strongest case ie needing an aid to bathe & shower, need and aid/assistance to put shoes and socks on, help preparing a meal as well as needing support on unfamiliar journeys and can't walk more than about 150m without severe pain. Having looked at everything tonight, I've decided that, even if they say standard rate both, that will put me back on the £319.80 DLA (although, obviously, now PIP) that I was receving. If they decide that at MR level, even if they review me in 3 years (nothing will have changed) I will be comfortable, and happy. \Even if they only say SR care, I will settle because £20 a week down is not the end of the world. I'm not going to aim for the big figures because I don't think I'm entitled to it or need that much help. I answered yes to some questions which should have been no because I wasn't sure on what they were asking (ie managing therapy, my husband helps me go over CBT therapy notes but apparently because I'm not under a MH Team I get a big fat 0). I started off awarding myself 25 points and I've now whittled that down to 8 at worst and possibly 12 at best on care and possibly 8 on mobility.. Those are strong point descriptors. Like I said, even if they only put me on standard rate for both or only care, I'll settle. Standard rate on care or both that I know I am entitled to is better than nothing at all.

    Helen x
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    When stating which descriptors you think apply to you and why, you need to back that up with 2 or 3 recent examples per points scoring activity of what happened last time you did that activity.

    For example, when preparing food, what's happened previously when you've prepared and cooked a simple meal on your own? You say you need support on unfamiliar journey's. What would happened if you were out alone in an unfamiliar place? Give examples of real life things that have happened to you that last time you did that activity alone.

    Managing therapy, scoring more than one point is only possible if the therapy takes place in your own home and it's prescribed or recommended by a registered doctor, nurse, pharmacist or health professional regulated by the Health Professions Council. One point is possible for needing to use an aid or needs prompting/assistance for taking medication.

    If the MR decision remains the same and most do then 71% of those who appear in person at their Tribunal have a decision in their favour (if represented) around 51% if not represented. Good luck.



    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    @poppy123456 thankyou, I'm hoping they'll settle at MR level. I'm going through and just picking out the points where I feel I have the strongest case ie needing an aid to bathe & shower, need and aid/assistance to put shoes and socks on, help preparing a meal as well as needing support on unfamiliar journeys and can't walk more than about 150m without severe pain. Having looked at everything tonight, I've decided that, even if they say standard rate both, that will put me back on the £319.80 DLA (although, obviously, now PIP) that I was receving. If they decide that at MR level, even if they review me in 3 years (nothing will have changed) I will be comfortable, and happy. \Even if they only say SR care, I will settle because £20 a week down is not the end of the world. I'm not going to aim for the big figures because I don't think I'm entitled to it or need that much help. I answered yes to some questions which should have been no because I wasn't sure on what they were asking (ie managing therapy, my husband helps me go over CBT therapy notes but apparently because I'm not under a MH Team I get a big fat 0). I started off awarding myself 25 points and I've now whittled that down to 8 at worst and possibly 12 at best on care and possibly 8 on mobility.. Those are strong point descriptors. Like I said, even if they only put me on standard rate for both or only care, I'll settle. Standard rate on care or both that I know I am entitled to is better than nothing at all.

    Helen x
    Help preparing a meal - you need to break that right down to what help and why. I said I could make a sandwich at a stretch but preferred to buy prepacked sandwiches for lunch as it is easier and safer. I got no points. In truth I would probably not bother with lunch if I am on my own if I didn't have pre packed snacks. I should have said that. I live with my son. I cook with him. I should have said that. Not, can you heat food up in the microwave. Yes I could but I probably don't most of the time. ( so okay you can cook). Get my point? Same goes for support on unfamiliar journeys. I did get points for familiar journeys, because I was very clear what I can and cannot do, I told them about a real journey I make most days, how far it is, how I break it down and take rests for my anxiety, know where the lamp posts are as markers, where the benches are, how many minutes it usually takes, how many minutes I can cope with and how I can call for help using my mobile and folk know where I am because I take the same route every time, etc.I think you should get face to face advice or go on a reputable help website mentioned on scope to get the most up to date accurate info. Good luck
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,420 Disability Gamechanger
    Nothing needs to be broken down at all. It’s all defined. See https://pipinfo.net/activities/preparing-food
  • deb74deb74 Member Posts: 692 Pioneering
    MrsWolfie2210. it seems more disabled people than able bodied become self employed. it gives you the freedom to work at your own pace and if you are having a bad day there is no-one to push you. it can be very stressful but it is worth it! 
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @poppy123456 thanks for that. I have a diary which I kept from before my assessment and can update. Do you think it would be worth including that? HP never even looked at it!

    Helen x
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @deb74 when I was a little girl. I wanted to be a forensic scientist, I never once dreamed that I could be a writer. I was led to writing by my therapist in 2014 and I hated it at first, it's now become the antedote for anxiety. Anytime I need to relax I just punch out a page or two - it's not uncommon fof my journal entries to reach 8 pages, for one day! 

    I do have a bunch of content to put on my blogs and have thought about monetising them. The biggest problem with writing is the insufferable writer's block, of which I have been a victim numerous times!

    Helen x
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @poppy123456 thanks for that. I have a diary which I kept from before my assessment and can update. Do you think it would be worth including that? HP never even looked at it!

    Helen x
    You can yes, the DWP decision maker may not use it but the Tribunal will.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @poppy123456 hopefully, just hopefully, it won't get that far. I realise that hope can be a dangerous thingbut you can't blame me for trying. I've had bad situations turn in my favour before, so I do keep everything crossed and take it one step at a time.

    Helen x
  • sue66sue66 Member Posts: 124 Pioneering
    Hi Helen quote "Also, apparently the fact I went to my assessment and got a taxi (which my husband booked) means I can plan and follow an unfamiliar journey? Go fugure!"
    How stupid is that, this is what you pay the taxi for, to get you from one place to another, you sit there, they do the driving, they chose the route and take you to the door, wheres the planning a journey come into it doh!

  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    sue66 said:

    How stupid is that, this is what you pay the taxi for, to get you from one place to another, you sit there, they do the driving, they chose the route and take you to the door, wheres the planning a journey come into it doh!

    Is it the actual planning or the planning that might need to happen?

    Say the taxi suffered a breakdown on the way and you knew that if you waited for help to arrive from the AA/RAC you would be late for the assessment. What would you do? Could you plan how you would get to the assessment centre on time?
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    That's very true, you should be travelling with a companion in that case.
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • sue66sue66 Member Posts: 124 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    sue66 said:

    How stupid is that, this is what you pay the taxi for, to get you from one place to another, you sit there, they do the driving, they chose the route and take you to the door, wheres the planning a journey come into it doh!

    Is it the actual planning or the planning that might need to happen?

    Say the taxi suffered a breakdown on the way and you knew that if you waited for help to arrive from the AA/RAC you would be late for the assessment. What would you do? Could you plan how you would get to the assessment centre on time?
    Yes they should have asked it just like that. Most of us could plan a taxi to pick us up and take us to our destination but personally if this was me id def need a companion, and if on my own which i wouldn't have been i know i would just panic if the taxi suffered a breakdown. Judging someone as able to plan a journey solely on the ability to book a taxi doesn't mean you could plan a journey in my opionion anyway. 
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    Totally understand where you are coming from. 
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    Hey guys,
    Wow this has escalated a bit! Yes, the taxi situ is a crazy one to me, too. If the taxi broke down I;d be thrown into a full-scale panic. In fact, for me to get in a taxi at all on my own just wouldn't heppen because of my anxiety. I can plan an unfamiliar journey with no issue because that's just using a map, but follow it? As in manage the bus, car, train or whatever without crippling anxiety which would probably make me abort the journey? That's a no!

    Also, as a sidenote, I wouldn't book a taxi myself - I get anxious using telephones!

    Helen x
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @debbiedo49 I was very clear that I use adapted knives, my husband helps me open jars and cans and has to supervise me because I do stupid things like leave the gas cooker on because of my anxiety - I was still awarded 0 points! My husband came to my assessment with me and helped explain the help he gives me. Guess what? Still 0 points!

    Helen x
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    Hey guys,
    Wow this has escalated a bit! Yes, the taxi situ is a crazy one to me, too. If the taxi broke down I;d be thrown into a full-scale panic. In fact, for me to get in a taxi at all on my own just wouldn't heppen because of my anxiety. I can plan an unfamiliar journey with no issue because that's just using a map, but follow it? As in manage the bus, car, train or whatever without crippling anxiety which would probably make me abort the journey? That's a no!

    Also, as a sidenote, I wouldn't book a taxi myself - I get anxious using telephones!

    Helen x
    Yes me too. They tribunal organised my taxi. The driver tried to engage me in what route to take and I said don’t ask me uour the driver. I don’t drive. Do you have a sat nav? If it broke down I wouldn’t be able to do anything for panic. I don’t like using the phone either I email mostly. I would have just relied on the driver go sort the problem. 
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    @debbiedo49 I was very clear that I use adapted knives, my husband helps me open jars and cans and has to supervise me because I do stupid things like leave the gas cooker on because of my anxiety - I was still awarded 0 points! My husband came to my assessment with me and helped explain the help he gives me. Guess what? Still 0 points!

    Helen x
    I got zero point too for cooking as I said I could make a sandwich at a push. I only cook with my son beside me helping me as I’m not safe in the kitchen and I told them how he helps me. Zero
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @debbiedo49 did you go to MR/appeal? What do they expect us to do?! I get clamping down on fraudsters but this is crazy! Disabled people shouldn't have to go before a judge to be entitled to benefits - we're disabled, not criminals! For many of us (myself included) that's only going to excacerbate our condition/s!

    Helen x
  • sue66sue66 Member Posts: 124 Pioneering
    @debbiedo49 did you go to MR/appeal? What do they expect us to do?! I get clamping down on fraudsters but this is crazy! Disabled people shouldn't have to go before a judge to be entitled to benefits - we're disabled, not criminals! For many of us (myself included) that's only going to excacerbate our condition/s!

    Helen x
    Totally agree  with you Helen, hows it come to this when disabled people are treated in some case like criminals having to appear before a judge. We would all like to be fit and well enough to go out and earn our own money if we could.!

    Sue x
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    @debbiedo49 did you go to MR/appeal? What do they expect us to do?! I get clamping down on fraudsters but this is crazy! Disabled people shouldn't have to go before a judge to be entitled to benefits - we're disabled, not criminals! For many of us (myself included) that's only going to excacerbate our condition/s!

    Helen x
    It's nothing really to do with fraudsters. The DWP have to carry out the wishes of the Treasury in that no matter what they do they must at all costs get as many people off benefits as possible. It's political really.


  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @Yadnad well no, this is true. I think I've seen one too many benefit fraud posters in my time and it's made me aware that such thing sadly exists, hence when these re-forms happen these people get the brunt of my frustration along with the Government. Both rightly so, but still.

    Helen x
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    @Yadnad well no, this is true. I think I've seen one too many benefit fraud posters in my time and it's made me aware that such thing sadly exists, hence when these re-forms happen these people get the brunt of my frustration along with the Government. Both rightly so, but still.

    Helen x
    The amount that is taken by fraudulent means is tiny by comparison to the overall figures. Of course the government will use that argument to get people to agree with making welfare benefits more difficult to get.
    More is lost by the DWP in errors and in maladministration than there is by way of fraud.
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @Yadnad classic case of media sensationalism and availability heuristics at play, then.

    Helen x
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    @Yadnad classic case of media sensationalism and availability heuristics at play, then.

    Helen x
    Exactly right. Give the impression to the general public and the press that there is a huge problem with fraudulent claims. - the public then get onside with the government to do something about it - then the government get the green light to make benefit claims more difficult to weed out these scroungers!

    The real reason is that the Treasury want to save money but if that was the reason given it would fall on deaf ears.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,420 Disability Gamechanger
    To clarify, any issues you have after a journey has started have been well covered in case law and come under following rather than planning. 

    As for fraud, we’ve been here a lot if times before. DWP accounts, including those on fraud have now been qualified, not accepted as accurate, for 19 successive years. The amount of fraud is well below their figures. Most of it is urbanised crime rather than individuals but that’s not a good political message so all people get to hear are the often ridiculous media stories where had the person been properly represented there’s every chance the overpayment wouldn’t have been recoverable let alone turn into a fraud case.

    As for people who know fraudsters I long ago stopped taking that seriously. Everybody knows a fraudster and yet everybody complains how invisible impairment isn’t taken seriously. Only 1 of those statements can be true and we already know fraud levels are wrong; too high and fraud on disability benefits is the lowest in the whole social security system.
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    @debbiedo49 did you go to MR/appeal? What do they expect us to do?! I get clamping down on fraudsters but this is crazy! Disabled people shouldn't have to go before a judge to be entitled to benefits - we're disabled, not criminals! For many of us (myself included) that's only going to excacerbate our condition/s!

    Helen x
    Yes this was at tribunal. I got mobility points so I made the best of it
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @Yadnad it's interesting how that works. Unrelated, but some years ago I used to get myself really hyped up because of the media and overseas conflict. It was only when I started to study and understand the media that I became familiar with terms such as availability heuristics (a different but commonly used example, plane crashes) and confirmation bias. It was in use during the Cold War (not that I'm that old!) and it is still very much in use now! It's sick and saddening that it's the disabled people, and those who really and geneuinely need the support, that seem to take the brunt of it. It's not our fault we can't go out and earn a pretty penny.

    Helen x
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @sue66 exactly. I'm getting quite nervous because it really will be a "your word against mine" situation for me I feel. I don't have any specialist input and I haven't done for years, I just am, simply put.

    Helen x
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @debbiedo49 that's horrific! Did you have a representative? I've done some ringing around today..well, emailing around, but anyway! I had to ask the CAB to email me back because phonecalls make me anxious!

    Helen x
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    @debbiedo49 that's horrific! Did you have a representative? I've done some ringing around today..well, emailing around, but anyway! I had to ask the CAB to email me back because phonecalls make me anxious!

    Helen x
    Yes i had a rep. They said take it
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @debbiedo49 it really does concern me that without specialist input, you odn't seem to get far.
  • debbiedo49debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,906 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s stilll worth trying
    💜🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
    I am a fibro warrior !💜♏️
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @debbiedo49 I suppose so. I think I have been panicking a lot though, as I say, it's hard to prove anything without the medical evidence,
  • mollyoscarmollyoscar Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Hi Helen Ask for a home visit Also join the benefits and work website It helps to know how to word things that you cannot do I found it invaluable when filling out the forms The more information you put down the better Its well worth the joining fee I know I could not have managed the forms without it Good luck x

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,420 Disability Gamechanger
    @debbiedo49 I suppose so. I think I have been panicking a lot though, as I say, it's hard to prove anything without the medical evidence,
    It honestly isn’t. Re-read my earlier post. Anecdotal evidence is the key much more so than medical evidence.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s stilll worth trying
    …..but only if you have a better than 50% chance of getting the award you deserve. 
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @mikehughescq I'm sorry, I think I've been panicking so much that all this information is swimming around a little bit. I started to panic and think that there was nothing, and then I remembered probably heaps of different times and examples of different situations. Time to get typing..

    Helen x
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @mollyoscar the trouble is they could easily argue that I don't NEED a home visit, there is no way I could argue for enhanced and I'd have support to get to an assessment, so the need for a home visit would be small at best. Also, I have a dog who would just bark his way through a home visit ( 3 yo Jack Russell Terrier), that might not go well in my favour, either. I will check out the website for more advice though, thankyou.

    Helen x
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 851 Pioneering
    @debbiedo49 did you go to MR/appeal? What do they expect us to do?! I get clamping down on fraudsters but this is crazy! Disabled people shouldn't have to go before a judge to be entitled to benefits - we're disabled, not criminals! For many of us (myself included) that's only going to excacerbate our condition/s!

    Helen x

    @MrsWolfie2210 and anyone interested.

    Whenever someone tries to use the benefit scrounger argument, refer them to this below.

    The DWP lose more through their own errors than to fraud. Tax avoidance and evasion obviously dwarfs all.

    As you can see Benefit fraud is minimal....


    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election video for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @Government_needs_reform how interesting. And yet, we're the bad guys..
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @mollyoscar I've just been looking at the '50 ways.to challenge a healh assessment' file... wow! So, so many things I could throw the book at the HP for! From the decision she noted that I have no issues balancing, she never tested my balance. She said I had no problems hearing, she told me she was going to conduct a 'basic hearing assessment', I was never told if of when she did and as far as I was aware that was absent from my assessment, and there are other points I can add too, like the assessment being on the first floor! Buckle up and grab the popcorn, things are about to get interesting..

    Helen x
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    A home visit is of no use here because you've already had your face to face assessment and you're now asking for the MR.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    During a face to face assessment you're watched from the minute you arrive to the minute you leave. The HCP may not have tested your hearing or balance but you were most likely observed during the whole assessment. If you have mobility issues you would have been watched walking into and leaving the room. Answering the questions, if you didn't ask to repeat what was said because of hearing problems then this may have been noted. All those little things that we wouldn't think of could have happened.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mollyoscarmollyoscar Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Poppy 123456
    Yes they are very sneaky the way they do things It's so unfair what people have to go through 
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    Interesting on the hearing side of things, I did, however, explain to her that it was easier for her to hI speak last ar me because she was female (my hearing loss is low-tone not high tone) and that I could face her so that I could lip read. The decision also notes that I walk with a 'shuffling gait' so it will be interesting to see what the HP said. I spent last night making a list of my points for the MR, even without the hearing test, there are still quite a few things that I can argue. 
  • patriciahendypatriciahendy Member Posts: 20 Courageous
    Why has there not been a legal challenge regarding this scandalous cruel treatment? The DWP owes a lot of money to a lot of genuine people.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @MrsWolfie2210 do you wear hearing aids in both ears? If you do then it's possible to score 2 points for communicating verbally.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @patriciahendy I quite agree. I have a friend with Chronic Renal Failure and he has to have dialysis for 4 hours a day, DWP found him to be fit and healthy. He ended up going to appeal and being awarded ER on both components.
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @poppy123456 I don't. Most hearing aids are made for high tone hearing loss rather than low tone hearing loss. I was given some analog hearing aids (your 'typical' NHS hearing aid) but they did nothing for me because the software can't programme them fine enough for a mild low-tone hearing loss and they just amplified everything instead. Back donkey's years ago, I had a pair of Starkey digital hearing aids and they were BRILLIANT! However, they were also on trial and had to be returned I believe it was after one year. They turned my life around and I was able to hear good sounds (like the ocean, bees in the garden etc) as well as bad sounds (like the motorway bridge and the railway line) because the hospital was able to programme them fine enough to adapt to and support my hearing loss. They also cost £600 a piece and that's not money I have or can afford on a private prescription, otherwise I woud. Ever since about Year 8 of secondary school (2003?),I've just lip-read :)
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Then it may not be possible to score any points in the descriptor communicating verbally. This link may help you understand all the descriptors, there meanings and where it may or may not be possible to score those points.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    edited October 2018
    @poppy123456 yes I'm aware of that, that's why I've let that comment slide and gone for the ones where I really, really have a strong point such as needing supervision with cooking. Guess who accidentally left the cooker on again today because she was unsupervised? Case in point!

    Helen x
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    @mollyoscar I've just been looking at the '50 ways.to challenge a healh assessment' file... wow! So, so many things I could throw the book at the HP for! From the decision she noted that I have no issues balancing, she never tested my balance. She said I had no problems hearing, she told me she was going to conduct a 'basic hearing assessment', I was never told if of when she did and as far as I was aware that was absent from my assessment, and there are other points I can add too, like the assessment being on the first floor! Buckle up and grab the popcorn, things are about to get interesting..

    Helen x
    Before embarking on a complaint crusade be aware that you will have to have independent evidence to show that what they say happened never happened. As for the first floor, was there a lift there? Were you asked if you could climb the stairs? The assessor will say there was and that you did not object to walking up the stairs - can you prove otherwise?

    In the main it is nothing more than you say, they say. Without independent proof you will probably get nowhere.

  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Poppy 123456
    Yes they are very sneaky the way they do things It's so unfair what people have to go through 
    Sneaky probably but necessary. Observations are important - they tell a lot about a person. 
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    Why has there not been a legal challenge regarding this scandalous cruel treatment? The DWP owes a lot of money to a lot of genuine people.
    Does it? It can't owe money until it issues a decision notice stating that an award is due. 
  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @Yadnad so correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're basically saying is that despite having been disabled for all of my 30 years (and having the medical history to prove it), the DWP have now effectively decided that, because I've been discharged, I'm effectively cured of everything and fit for work because I haven't had any specialist input in the past 4 years? Proving anything is going to be nigh on impossible, It really is my word against theirs.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2018
    @Yadnad so correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're basically saying is that despite having been disabled for all of my 30 years (and having the medical history to prove it), the DWP have now effectively decided that, because I've been discharged, I'm effectively cured of everything and fit for work because I haven't had any specialist input in the past 4 years? Proving anything is going to be nigh on impossible, It really is my word against theirs.
    Yep that seems to be their opinion so far.

    I've been where you are 
    Indefinite High rate DLA for both Care and Mobility since 1995.

    Since 2013 I have had 3 face to face PIP assessments and all three resulted in 0 points.
    In the assessors' reports their justification was that I no longer have specialist input for both mental and physical issues - simply my GP now looks after me.

    I'm not cured either, but it is for the claimant to prove that the illness/condition/disability actually exists. then again for the claimant to prove why and that the relevant PIP descriptors fit the impact of those on your life.

    I have had 5 years of this rubbish and decided earlier this year that enough was enough.



  • MrsWolfie2210MrsWolfie2210 Member Posts: 42 Courageous
    @Yadnad I don't blame you. Hubby and I are looking at ways for me to work from home.We are both of the opinion that there is no way in hell that I am fit for office work. There are a few ideas floating around, blogging would be a good one for me for a start and I could work flexible hours.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @Yadnad so correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're basically saying is that despite having been disabled for all of my 30 years (and having the medical history to prove it), the DWP have now effectively decided that, because I've been discharged, I'm effectively cured of everything and fit for work because I haven't had any specialist input in the past 4 years? Proving anything is going to be nigh on impossible, It really is my word against theirs.
    Being disabled doesn't automatically qualify you for PIP. The PIP descriptors are very specific and not everyone that has a disability will qualify. Those that had a lifetime award for DLA doesn't automatically qualify them for PIP.

    DWP haven't said you're fit for work, that's your words. They can't possibly find you fit for work with a PIP refusal because PIP isn't about not being able to work.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    And to add a bit more to the pot - not everyone that has a disability will qualify, but some with the same disability and impact level will get an award whereas others won't - that depends entirely on the assessor and the decision maker.

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