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Refused pip - tribunal in couple weeks help !

sophisophi Member Posts: 3 Listener
im writing for my sister (30years of age) as she has applied for pip and was refused awarded 0 points.  She has the following conditions:
Type 1 diabetes 
chronic pancreatitis 
depression & anxiety
back problems
high closterol 
IBS

she takes the following medications:
insulin (novorapid 3 times a day 24units and lantus 44 units once at night)
gabapentin -600mg twice a day and 300mg at night 
Omeprazole once a day
codeine two four times a day 
creon once a day
mirtazipine 30mg once a day 
buscopan

My sister has had chronic pancriatitus since 2012 and t1 diabetes since 2014. She has been in and out of hospital almost every month for 7-9 days a time due to her pancreas flaring up since 2012. she has had dka (Diabetic ketoacidosis) three times since September 2017 and was admitted into hospital for just under 2 weeks each time. She had an operation in December 2017 for gall stones and an operation in January for appendicitis. 

My Sister struggles every single day. She has a lot of pain because of her problems with the pancreas and stomach. Her pain is so bad that she can’t lie, sit or walk for to long each time because a lot of it is the lower and upper back pain. She can’t eat full meals and has to eat in little bits because of the pain she gets after eating. She can’t stand and cook her food and we do it all. She will warm her food in the microwave and that’s it she has the energy to do so otherwise she’ll either eat cold or not at all. Most days she stays in her pyjamas and in her room. She takes her pain killers but there’s been so many times when she couldn’t control the pain and has taken more medication and overdosed and ended up in hospital because of it. She has very bad depression and anxiety and does not go out anywhere. She goes to appointments which I or my dad take her. She constantly misses her appointments because she has very bad memory and because I work full time I struggle to keep up with everything. 

Theres been a few occasions in the last year where her depression got so bad it made her suicidal and she actually went to jump in a canal after writing letters to myself, my parents and siblings. But luckily we caught her on time. We then took her to the doctors who referred her to a physciatric hospital who then referred her to a organisation called mind where she was recieving counselling. She stopped going there because she couldn’t cope with going out. We’re trying to get to go back as we felt this was helping her. The police have been involved twice because she was going to kill herself. When we asked her why, she said she can’t cope with the pain anymore. She can’t cope with her mind. She says her mind is worst enemy. She doesn’t have a bath we have to force her. 

She he wasn’t so bad before, but her ibs deteriorated. When she needs to go to the toilet she has to go there and then and there’s been instance when she hasn’t got to the toilet on time and she’s had accidents (not wee). This is what exasperated everything because she couldn’t put herself through going out and this happening which affected her mentally and that’s where the anxiety kicked in I think. She doesn’t leave the house at all. She stays in her bedroom all the time and if we’re  lucky she will come downstairs with the rest of the family but then if someone knocks on or comes to the house she’s gone in a flash. 

She cant walk too far because she’s in a lot of pain. She has very bad insomnia which means she doesn’t sleep. When she does sleep she won’t get up. 

Most rcently around 2 months ago, she had an infection which turned into sepsis and she was in hospital for 2weeks. 

All in in all that’s just the basic or a gist of her life and we applied for esa which she got around two months ago even though she could have got it a long time ago. But she was working from 16 and had money saved up and we also supported her financially until now. As now it’s becoming a big strain on us all. She’s been refused the PiP scoring no points. The lady didn’t even acknowledge or look at her evidence she took in. She was very abrupt and there’s a couple of things that she put in the report which weren’t even true. Such as preparing a meal. My sister had said she can’t use a microwave and the lady put down she can prepare a meal. 

She has her tribunal in a couple of weeks and I have sent in evidence .i.e. I did a FReedom of informationrequest to hospital and they sent all her notes since 2012. Can anyone please help me with this and what are the chances of it being refused again based on the information provided above. If anyone has any pointers or anything that you think could help please could you. Is there anything else that we should add for evidence? So far we have the notes form the hospital and same from the doctor. I’m not sure if the doctor will do a report saying how and what her conditions affect her on a daily? 

Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,289 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello and welcome, being refused PIP may have been because your sister was not able to fit match any of the PIP descriptors dispite her health and disability, have you requested a copy of the acessment report? If not please do as this will give you valuable information as to why your sister didn't get any points awarded. Have you notified DWP you are appealing by phone and also by letter. Gather as much evidence to support you sisters inabilities in relation to the PIP descriptors. Good luck and keep us updated.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    HI,

    I'm sure the assessment report has been seen because there's a date for the Tribunal in a few weeks. The claimant would have been sent the "bundle" from the Tribunal which will have everything inside that was sent to DWP for the claim.

    No one can tell you if your sister will be awarded because no one knows exactly how her conditions affect her, other than what you said above, which i agree sounds awful. It will depend on the evidence she sends to prove how her conditions affect her ability to carry out daily activities against the PIP descriptors.

    For example.... cooking a simple meal is not about being able to use a microwave. It's about your ability to prepare and cook a meal using simple ingredients, safely...being able to cut veg, lift pans, use the oven, cooker etc. Having some understanding on what each descriptor means really does help.

    A letter from a GP isn't evidence unless it's states exactly how your conditions affect you and very few GPs know anything about this. They will only be able to state medication/treatment etc. You'll be much better off writing a letter of support in detail about how her conditions affect her using the descriptors to guide you. The sooner you do this and send it to HMCTS the better.

    During the hearing she will have to speak for herself and tell the Tribunal in her own words how her conditions affect her. If you go with her then they may ask you some questions at the end but this doesn't always happen.

    Good luck.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • sophisophi Member Posts: 3 Listener
    HI,

    I'm sure the assessment report has been seen because there's a date for the Tribunal in a few weeks. The claimant would have been sent the "bundle" from the Tribunal which will have everything inside that was sent to DWP for the claim.

    No one can tell you if your sister will be awarded because no one knows exactly how her conditions affect her, other than what you said above, which i agree sounds awful. It will depend on the evidence she sends to prove how her conditions affect her ability to carry out daily activities against the PIP descriptors.

    For example.... cooking a simple meal is not about being able to use a microwave. It's about your ability to prepare and cook a meal using simple ingredients, safely...being able to cut veg, lift pans, use the oven, cooker etc. Having some understanding on what each descriptor means really does help.

    A letter from a GP isn't evidence unless it's states exactly how your conditions affect you and very few GPs know anything about this. They will only be able to state medication/treatment etc. You'll be much better off writing a letter of support in detail about how her conditions affect her using the descriptors to guide you. The sooner you do this and send it to HMCTS the better.

    During the hearing she will have to speak for herself and tell the Tribunal in her own words how her conditions affect her. If you go with her then they may ask you some questions at the end but this doesn't always happen.

    Good luck.

    She doesn’t even want to go to the hearing but she knows she has to. She gets really anxious outside and in front of people she doesn’t know. So she never goes alone. When she talks and when she gets bad she starts stuttering and then turns to me. How would this work at the hearing if she will get asked questions? We’re trying to prepare her the best we can but she’s absolutely terrified of the thought of going there. When we had the esa assessment we sat in the car for 1.5 hours TIL she was called and then went straight into the room which helped. So I’m not sure how we’re going on this one.

    Also When you say write a letter in support, do you have a sample or anything? I’m totally new to this benefit and have absolutely no clue whatsoever. Her pain is horrendous and it’s there all the time and life is proving so difficult that we really don’t know what or how we can help her. She has an appointment at the pain clinic on the 20th and I think they’re considering giving her morphine (or medication of that family) to help her because the pain killers she has virtually take the edge of things. On really bad days were at a total loss because of how it’s affecting her mentally. 

    What needs needs to go in the statement? Is there anything specific that you think she should mention? Or worded in a specific way? 

    Also ive been told that we should take a representative with us. But having spoken to an organisation earlier today, called welfare rights, the lady herself was a representative and they can’t take the case on because it’s to short notice (we didn’t know we could help with this) but she said it’s best not to take a legal representative because they bar is set higher. It will look better if I go with my sister and write a submission? Is the submission the same as the statement you mentioned? Do you have any pointers what we should put on there? 
  • sophisophi Member Posts: 3 Listener
    wilko said:
    Hello and welcome, being refused PIP may have been because your sister was not able to fit match any of the PIP descriptors dispite her health and disability, have you requested a copy of the acessment report? If not please do as this will give you valuable information as to why your sister didn't get any points awarded. Have you notified DWP you are appealing by phone and also by letter. Gather as much evidence to support you sisters inabilities in relation to the PIP descriptors. Good luck and keep us updated.
    I did the form for her. I later realised what we should have put in there but I basically only briefly touched up on her daily life. Yes the appeal has been accepted and they have sent the bundle with everything in 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Those that appear in person have the best chance of a decision in their favour because the Tribunal will want to see and hear for their self how she's affected.

    No one can tell you what to write because no one knows exactly how her conditions affect her. You can write the letter of submission this way yes and use the descriptors as a guide. Just explain how she's affected, what you need to her with. Does she use aids, if she why does she use them. If she needs assistance rather than use aids then you have to tell them when she needs assistance and why she can't use the aids. Look at the PIP descriptors while you write it. There's 10 daily living descriptors.

    The mobility, is she claiming for physical condition for moving around or planning and following a journey? You say she never goes any where alone, is this because of anxiety? If she doesn't go out alone then tell them this, why doesn't she go out alone? What will happen if she did go out alone? would she be safe etc.

    Have a look at this guide it may help you understand a little more. It's extremely difficult to advise someone on an internet forum.



    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,979 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you sought representation?
  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,731 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @sophi It sounds like your sister has so much going on and you are obviously concerned about her.  There has been some great support on your post, do you think it would help to speak to someone? You could call the Scope helpline on 0808 800 3333 or look for your local CAB.

    Regarding the mental health challenges and the suicide attempt it may help you to discuss these things with someone who is qualified to help, you can call the Samaritans on 116 123 (free) or email them at [email protected]

    MIND have some information and support here about how you can help someone else that might be helpful for you to read.

    We are a friendly group here so please do feel free to share and chat with our members and I hope we can help.

    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    sophi said:
    im writing for my sister (30years of age) as she has applied for pip and was refused awarded 0 points.  She has the following conditions:
    Type 1 diabetes 
    chronic pancreatitis 
    depression & anxiety
    back problems
    high closterol 
    IBS

    she takes the following medications:
    insulin (novorapid 3 times a day 24units and lantus 44 units once at night)
    gabapentin -600mg twice a day and 300mg at night 
    Omeprazole once a day
    codeine two four times a day 
    creon once a day
    mirtazipine 30mg once a day 
    buscopan

    My sister has had chronic pancriatitus since 2012 and t1 diabetes since 2014. She has been in and out of hospital almost every month for 7-9 days a time due to her pancreas flaring up since 2012. she has had dka (Diabetic ketoacidosis) three times since September 2017 and was admitted into hospital for just under 2 weeks each time. She had an operation in December 2017 for gall stones and an operation in January for appendicitis. 

    My Sister struggles every single day. She has a lot of pain because of her problems with the pancreas and stomach. Her pain is so bad that she can’t lie, sit or walk for to long each time because a lot of it is the lower and upper back pain. She can’t eat full meals and has to eat in little bits because of the pain she gets after eating. She can’t stand and cook her food and we do it all. She will warm her food in the microwave and that’s it she has the energy to do so otherwise she’ll either eat cold or not at all. Most days she stays in her pyjamas and in her room. She takes her pain killers but there’s been so many times when she couldn’t control the pain and has taken more medication and overdosed and ended up in hospital because of it. She has very bad depression and anxiety and does not go out anywhere. She goes to appointments which I or my dad take her. She constantly misses her appointments because she has very bad memory and because I work full time I struggle to keep up with everything. 

    Theres been a few occasions in the last year where her depression got so bad it made her suicidal and she actually went to jump in a canal after writing letters to myself, my parents and siblings. But luckily we caught her on time. We then took her to the doctors who referred her to a physciatric hospital who then referred her to a organisation called mind where she was recieving counselling. She stopped going there because she couldn’t cope with going out. We’re trying to get to go back as we felt this was helping her. The police have been involved twice because she was going to kill herself. When we asked her why, she said she can’t cope with the pain anymore. She can’t cope with her mind. She says her mind is worst enemy. She doesn’t have a bath we have to force her. 

    She he wasn’t so bad before, but her ibs deteriorated. When she needs to go to the toilet she has to go there and then and there’s been instance when she hasn’t got to the toilet on time and she’s had accidents (not wee). This is what exasperated everything because she couldn’t put herself through going out and this happening which affected her mentally and that’s where the anxiety kicked in I think. She doesn’t leave the house at all. She stays in her bedroom all the time and if we’re  lucky she will come downstairs with the rest of the family but then if someone knocks on or comes to the house she’s gone in a flash. 

    She cant walk too far because she’s in a lot of pain. She has very bad insomnia which means she doesn’t sleep. When she does sleep she won’t get up. 

    Most rcently around 2 months ago, she had an infection which turned into sepsis and she was in hospital for 2weeks. 

    All in in all that’s just the basic or a gist of her life and we applied for esa which she got around two months ago even though she could have got it a long time ago. But she was working from 16 and had money saved up and we also supported her financially until now. As now it’s becoming a big strain on us all. She’s been refused the PiP scoring no points. The lady didn’t even acknowledge or look at her evidence she took in. She was very abrupt and there’s a couple of things that she put in the report which weren’t even true. Such as preparing a meal. My sister had said she can’t use a microwave and the lady put down she can prepare a meal. 

    She has her tribunal in a couple of weeks and I have sent in evidence .i.e. I did a FReedom of informationrequest to hospital and they sent all her notes since 2012. Can anyone please help me with this and what are the chances of it being refused again based on the information provided above. If anyone has any pointers or anything that you think could help please could you. Is there anything else that we should add for evidence? So far we have the notes form the hospital and same from the doctor. I’m not sure if the doctor will do a report saying how and what her conditions affect her on a daily? 
    Hi there

    I really can't help anymore than what has been said so far. You should be concentrating on the impact on her life AND trying to fit as many descriptors as you can to those impacts. Be ready to give examples of everything where she has tried to carry out those actions and what happened.

    What I can say is that my heart goes out to your sister simply because I know from personal experience what she is going through.

    What you list above, apart from the IBS is just a small part of what my issues are. But Chronic Pancreatitis and every damn thing that comes with it I fully understand. I feel that I spend a lot of my life in hospital with it and the complications that come with it. 
    I am a contributor of the following specialist forum:
     https://www.pancreatitis-forum.org.uk/ 

    Get yourself logged on to it - it has been a great help to me in the past.

    I don't know where you are in the country but I have found that most hospitals refuse to get involved with CP sufferers except to treat the symptoms. I live on the outskirts of Canterbury in Kent and to get the proper attention I have ended up at the Liverpool University Hospital in their specialist unit. I have seen the inside of every hospital in Kent + Kings & St Thomas' in London. In fact the guy who started off that forum was my Consultant until his recent move to Germany to teach and help to develop better treatment internationally.

    You will find that with CP the patient is generally the expert of it when talking to a GP.
    Type 1 diabetes has been described to me by my GP that it is the 'mother of all diseases' - and it is really just a consequence of Chronic Pancreatitis for which the majority have no idea what the impact is on every day life.

    My PIP experiences - 0 points and gave up as I am not fit enough to take it to appeal.

    Good luck
  • johnsmith187johnsmith187 Member Posts: 55 Courageous
    Hi sophi, I just went through an appeal with my wife who also suffers from physical and mental health problems. I do have a thread about it that describes my appeal experience however I have no idea how to link it here.  Everyone so far has given you great advice and I wish you luck as it can be a hard experience to get through. The only thing I would add is that along with the evidence already suggested, i would think about getting your sister to keep a diary for a week detailing the problems she faces day to day. Paying attention to the pip descriptors as that's the bottom line. I only say that because they seemed much more interested in my letter and my wife's dairy than any of the reports from her drs, so it really does hold weight. Good luck :)
  • SankaySankay Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Hi I have been through this twice now with the PIP & won the appeal both times. (Plus supported others through this)It is scary & the panel dont show any emotion so is hard not to feel you are not being listened to but unlike going for the health assesment were you have one person desiding if you are well or not there will be 3 people all with differnt skill sets. Make sure you make it clear that she need someone with her to go anywhere. They may ask some questions that dont seem relevant(I was asked at one how I wipe my bottom!!) Make sure you go through the medical report they have sent & highlight the things you disagree with. I think from what you say about her problems you need to try make it clear she isn't safe to be on her own for any amount of time & how the whole jumping through hoops to get as far as the appeal is worstening her conditions with all the distress of having to keep justifying herself. Hope this is some help, wishing you all the best xx
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