Is it worth combatting Assessor's lies to use as example of how my disability effects me?

PIPQuestions

Eg. Assessor claimed I communited well and thorough about my problems and did not need prompting. He also claimed no physical disabilities were present preventing this (twisting the truth, my problems are mental)

This is a lie, I struggle to communicate properly due to my mental health and this was once again present at assessment (one, two word answers, I struggle massively to hold a proper conversation). I also prompted the person with me to answer a few questions, and the assessor had to prompt me for an answer because I was so anxious I "shut down". However he claims this did not happen.

Is it worth mentioning this is how it effects me and this was also present at assessment (despite his fabricated claims), as a double whammy (to call him out on his lies and to also prove how it effects me) or would this be a his word vs mine and mines being worthless, so I would need another example ?

wilko

Until all PIP acessments are recorded these situations will continue to happen, it’s going to be your word against the acessors. The chances of anybody winning or proving the acessor lied if it went to court is slim to say the best. It would be the ideal thing if an acessor or several where prosecuted for their lies and fabrications written in their reports and maybe the PIP acessments would be more honest and less, fewer MRs and Appeals would be heard or needed.

PIPQuestions

wilko said:

Until all PIP acessments are recorded these situations will continue to happen, it’s going to be your word against the acessors. The chances of anybody winning or proving the acessor lied if it went to court is slim to say the best. It would be the ideal thing if an acessor or several where prosecuted for their lies and fabrications written in their reports and maybe the PIP acessments would be more honest and less, fewer MRs and Appeals would be heard or needed.

I see. I also have some other, indendent evidence which would support my claims that I plan to send. I just don't know if I should explain that these things were present at the assessment aswell, which is true, but as the assessor lied it's my word vs his. But then if I don't combat it I feel like they will take his word as truth and believe I'm the healthiest person on this planet with no issues what so ever( I wish!!), so I should mention it even if in a throwaway comment.

poppy123456

Concentrate on where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding 2-3 examples of what happened the last time you did that activity is the best way to request the MR. They won't be interested in any lies that may have been told in the report.

mattw84

Well watch this space my tribunal tomorrow the defence I have is based on the assessors lies, 

also so I only spotted this last night on my reports but well worth reading every detail... on my report in the introduction the assessor listed my job as admin manager which is correct I was at the time yet her explanation on the physical questions listed me as a shelf stacker in a physical role so she changed my job role physical questions she put me as shelf stacker and mental questions I was referred to as a manager. At least that evidence I have in writing.

My assement was attended with my support worker so it’s our word against hers which also helps 

will see how tomorrow goes I guess 

good luck with yours 

PIPQuestions

poppy123456 said:

Concentrate on where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding 2-3 examples of what happened the last time you did that activity is the best way to request the MR. They won't be interested in any lies that may have been told in the report.

The last time I did this was probably with my assessor tho, which he is claiming lies. So your post is contradicting the situation , to explain recent examples of what happens when I do these things I would need to combat the assessors lies.

I do have letters from Hospital trying to issue an ASBO as a result of my behaviour of being anxious and around other people, evidence of walking out of a hospital ward and going to my older ward due to anxiety, walking out of hospital completely due to anxiety,  also being given diazepam to calm me down this is an example of what happens when I mix with other people what it leads to ( this was when I had someone with me too, but I think a lot of it was building up from being alone as hospital would only allow visitors during certain hours and it just got too much), which can be used for both communicating and mixing with others. I will be sending a copy of this also. I do not go anywhere without someone with me as it is too stressful and causes me to be extremely anxious so I don't have many examples of what happens when I don't have people around me. Even with relatives near me I still have a lot of trouble communicating and problems with anxiety but I don't feel as anxious as I would without and I feel "safer".

mattw84

Seems the DWP are happy with falsified documents cos in essence that’s what’s happening.
this is my first fight with the DWP and won’t be my last As I disagree with comments saying proving a lie won’t help your case. Lying or misrepresentation on an official document is a criminal offence and if you can prove a lie you have them by the balls regardless of what others say. (The key point there though is prove it of course)

if you lie on your questionnaire your be the one in front of a judge for fraud so what’s good for the goose as they say.

i have said it before I don’t believe the HCP lies I just think they are very good at wording a sentence. 

But being bitter because you didnt didn’t get the points you wanted won’t help because unless you can prove something in this day and age you don’t stand a chance.

cristobal

It’s very difficult trying to contradict ‘lies’ unless they are just that - facts that are wilfully stated incorrectly. Challenging someone’s opinion is almost impossible.

For example your statement that,“the assessor claimed that I communicated well” is just his opinion. You disagree but it’s difficult to describe the statement as a lie. “Claimed no physical disabilities were present” sounds like it may be true if, as you say, your problems are mental.

As others have suggested it’s better to concentrate on presenting your own evidence. 

If the assessor has made ‘mistakes’ and you feel that they are crucial to your case say so but back this up with additional examples of how you are affected. 

Once you’ve done this leave it for a day or two and then re-read what you’ve come up with. Or get someone else to read it. Check that it’s factual, concise and that each example you give addresses the particular behaviours that you say you have difficulty with.

Good luck!

mattw84

Username_removed said:

mattw84 said:

Seems the DWP are happy with falsified documents cos in essence that’s what’s happening.
this is my first fight with the DWP and won’t be my last As I disagree with comments saying proving a lie won’t help your case. Lying or misrepresentation on an official document is a criminal offence and if you can prove a lie you have them by the balls regardless of what others say. (The key point there though is prove it of course)

if you lie on your questionnaire your be the one in front of a judge for fraud so what’s good for the goose as they say.

i have said it before I don’t believe the HCP lies I just think they are very good at wording a sentence. 

But being bitter because you didnt didn’t get the points you wanted won’t help because unless you can prove something in this day and age you don’t stand a chance.

It is not possible to prove an assessor lied without hard evidence and if you think it’s some kind of criminal offence you’the going to be very disappointed. It os no such thing Even if you prove they lied. So what? A tribunal will attribute less weight to the report but not no weight at all. Your chances hinge on your evidence not theirs. Heading into an appeal tribunal with an anti HCP focus also risks antagonising the medical professional on the panel. Not the best move. 

Feel free to disagree with the above but you need far better arguments than ousted thus far.

So if I wheeled into a assessment in a wheel chair and said I was paralysed 
then folded my wheelchair up put it in my brand new Mercedes and walked into my local pub that would not be a criminal offence? Of course it would i would be trying to defraud the state. 

I am mearly saying if you can prove a document has been falsified it is a criminal offence something called fraud so yes that offence you say does not exist very much does. 
And the DWP or HCP is not above the law 

the problem as I stated which you clearly didn’t read is that you can’t fighg that if you don’t have prof and being bitter does not mean their opinion is a lie!

cristobal

Matt W....it's a long time since I studied law but I think you'll find that that the elements of fraud are dishonestly making 'false representation' leading to a financial gain or causing a financial loss.

Your example is clearly a fraud.

The other way round is more difficult as you have to prove that the assessor lied and this lie caused you a financial loss.

As others have said though proving that the assessor lied doesn't actually get you any closer to your entitlement...

cristobal

Matt W .... I'm slightly confused now.  

You gave your example of going to an assessment in a wheelchair and claiming to be paralysed and said that it was a faired as it was "defrauding the state"

I said I agree.

But now you disagree with me, when I'm agreeing with what you said.

Best move on I think!!

cristobal

Sorry...ignore the last comment I completely misread it...

Yadnad

poppy123456 said:

Concentrate on where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding 2-3 examples of what happened the last time you did that activity is the best way to request the MR. They won't be interested in any lies that may have been told in the report.

There is no evidence that any lies have been told other than what the poster says.
So obviously the report lies, warts and all will be with the Tribunal as will the claimants side of the story. The tribunal will then have to draw conclusions from the facts found and on the balance of probabilities come to a decision on who they think should be believed.

Polly2

If you can back up any lies told with evidence definately point it out. If you cant then leave it. An example on my assessment stated i had no issues with medication. My doctors notes from weeks prior to the assessment confirmed that i did have issues remembering meds which the doctor made notes the day i had an appointment. In my mr i was awarded points for that discriptor. My advice is pick your battles carefully. Concentrate on the errors you can prove an ignore the ones you cant

Polly2

Maybe not for everyone but it certainly did for me. I had zero points at assessment, this was my first time trying for pip. In all honesty i had no idea what I was doing. But i knew my evidence was strong so i challenged it. It seemed to me the errors/lies told were deliberately stated to stop me getting an award.