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I have my appeal in the tribunal court on Thursday the 6th of December

chelle77
chelle77 Member Posts: 6 Listener
edited December 2018 in PIP, DLA, and AA
HI I have my appeal in the tribunal court on Thursday the 6th of December 18 ,this has been in there hands for over a year and even though my doctor has written many letters that I cant go they are forcing me as they said they will just give a no answer if I don't, I feel I have been a victim of metal health and it so real for so many people and that is other reason for going to speak up for the people who are ill and need help and being robbed of this extra money , I used to have a special person in 5 mornings a week to sort things out and prepare tea for my boys and helped with cleaning and washing and my personal hygiene , I haven't had this now for over a year as I couldn't afford her without this income, which has put a massive stain on our daugher ,I was on PIP before and didn't think there would be a problem but there was the lady who came out wrote what she wanted and didn't listen to anything I had to say. So roll on Thursday wish me luck I haven't been out of the house for months , if anyone has any advice would be great 
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Comments

  • JennysDad
    JennysDad Member Posts: 2,299 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @chelle77 and a warm welcome to the community. I do, of course, wish you the very, very best of luck.
    Others will respond to your message in due course, though things tend to be quiet this late in the evening. I am going to refer your post to our benefits advisors, too, in he hope they might be able to offer you some assistance.
    So sorry you're having such a hard time,
    Warmest best wishes,
    @JennysDad
  • Pippa_Alumni
    Pippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,798 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @chelle77, and a warm welcome to the community!

    Wishing you all the best for your assessment, and fingers crossed this is the beginning of much easier times for you. Please do let us know how you get on. In the meantime, you may find Scope's page on appealing DWP decisions helpful.


  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    Some tips for the day:

    1) Concentrate wholly on what you were like on the date of claim.

    2) There are no “trick” questions. Tribunals are usually listed 20 minutes apart so, apart from the appeal papers, they need questions which cut across lots of functions. So the car question is brilliant because it indicates grip; mobility; dexterity; the ability to do something repeatedly; concentration and stamina. Instead of thinking negatively about such stuff think about what they’re getting at and your answers will be much better and more detailed. Similar questions include whether you’ve been on holiday recently. It feeds into mobility (getting across an airport); stamina; the ability to cope alone; the need for aids and appliances.

    3) There are no set rules or order for a hearing beyind the requirement that it must be seen to be fair. 

    4) Watch the judge’s pen. All three members may take notes but only the judge writes a record of proceedings. If you don’t want them to miss anything then remember that they can’t write as fast as you can speak, so watch their pen and slow down. Don’t worry about going too slow. They will tell you if you do.

    5) Never interrupt any tribunal member. It is perfectly okay to challenge them provided it’s not rude or aggressive. However, think about whether what you’re challenging them on is directly related to points. If it’s not then better to focus on points. This is especially important because loads of people second guess the demeanour of tribunal members as determining whether they are pro or against and it’s largely nonsense. An aggressive, challenging member may well just be a poor communicator and wholly on your side right up to the point you challenge them etc.

    6) Get yourself a representative and travel to the venue by whatever means makes you feel comfortable. It’s only ever an issue if you don’t explain what you did in full and if doing so contradicts your other evidence in some way for daily living and /or mobility.

    7) Same goes for clothes. You need to wear whatever makes you feel comfortable and relaxed. If you’re not relaxed then the likelihood of you presenting well are much reduced. Dressing down is not a good idea unless that all you can afford. A person who feels naked without make-up or a suit abd tie will similarly be over stressed if they try to pretend they’re in their comfort zone dressing down. 

    8) Other people’s tribunal experience can be valuable but it’s just that. Their experience. If they lost then it’s the tribunal to blame. If they win they everything they did is why they won and what you must do. The truth is usually very much in between.

    9) Know your case. What points are you going for and why. What’s your evidence? “The HCP was a liar” is neither evidence nor a winning strategy. Also, know the appeal papers. What’s where. 

    10) Do not be tempted to claim you’ve worsened since the date of claim. That’s a recipe for a failed appeal and an invitation to make another claim. Even if you have got worse always concentrate on your date of claim and what you were like then.

  • affii1993
    affii1993 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    @chelle77 what’s the update please hope it went well?
  • 70keepgoing
    70keepgoing Member Posts: 12 Listener
    @chelle77  
    Hope everything went well for you today 
  • chelle77
    chelle77 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Hi I lost in court 
  • chelle77
    chelle77 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    I was phoned by the court in the morning saying I didn't have to go due to stress, but the letter I have does say I was to ill to attend 


  • affii1993
    affii1993 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    @chelle77 what will happen now
  • markyboy
    markyboy Member Posts: 367 Pioneering
    Unless you can appeal on a point of law this is the end of the road
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    Very much a long way from the “end of the road”! 

    Your next step is to request a statement of reasons AND the record of proceedings. You will then need face to face advice to explore whether or not there are grounds for a set aside or to appeal to the upper tribunal on a point of law. Contrary to many who assert the latter are hard to find that is absolutely not the case. It’s near impossible for tribunals to make decision which dint contain some error of law and in your case it will be interesting to see whether they explicitly record, for example, what consideration they gave to whether you should attend in person. Recent case law is quite clear that when you request a paper hearing the tribunal must nevertheless both consider and record their reasoning as to why a paper hearing was appropriate. 

    Reading back your original post I doubt HMCTS will have advised you or your GP that if you didn’t attend you would lose. More likely they may have advised that the chances of winning if you don’t attend are hugely reduced. You don’t mention having a representative and that may have also damaged your chances of success. It does read as though more energy went into ensuring HMCTS understood you wouldn’t be attending than it did ensuring you had sufficient evidence and your case was well presented in your absence.

    At this stage you now have no choice as errors of law are not really something you can deduce by yourself. Look for your local independent advice centre, law centre or local authority welfare rights service. Ignore people who tell you their woes in seeking representation. It is out there in most places even when severely reduced. Looking for errors of law is also one of those situations where, in the absence of free advice, a solicitor may be briefly appropriate. 

    Do not, at this stage consider a new claim. Unless you do something radically different in how you prevent your case it’s odds on you will get the same outcome and only end up back in the MR/appeal process anyway. 

    So, act quickly do request the SOR and ROP; get yourself some face to face advice and go from there.
  • April2018mom
    April2018mom Posts: 2,868 Connected
    Act quickly as possible. Request a statement of reasons and a record of proceedings too. Obtain face to face advice regarding your next steps. Did you have a representative or not?
    Get in contact with your local advice centre or law centre immediately. Don’t begin a fresh claim until you have had advice and have stopped panicking about the decision.
    Keep us updated. 
  • Pippa_Alumni
    Pippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,798 Disability Gamechanger
    Oh I'm so sorry to hear this @chelle77, that must have been really disappointing news.

    You've had some great advice from our community members about potential next steps, so please do keep us updated and we'll advise where we can.
  • chelle77
    chelle77 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Thank you so much for all your advice I will look into this, I am just exhausted with it all and my metal state has been very badly affected, it was so unfair that they said no to go as I think they had all ready mad there minds up in the morning, there is so much what isn't true in the advisers report even to the point that I have a daughter and take her to nursery ( I don't has a daughter) only my stepdaughter who is 16 and she has had to change her life to help and cook and clean and its put a strain on her that she now has counselling at school and her grades have suffered.
    The only other thing with a new claim I am now on much more meds and have had a diagnoses of : prominent functional neurological disorder which has affected my right hand its now numb : also narrowing of the exit foramina at c6 of my neck, so root entrapment at this level is contributing to a double crush , carpel tunnel and spondylosis in my neck 
    So do I go down this root or just do a new claim   
  • Pippa_Alumni
    Pippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,798 Disability Gamechanger
    That really is frustrating, @chelle77! I hope you're also making sure you're taking time to recover look after yourself.

    I'm tagging in @poppy123456 in the hope she'll be able to offer some input here, as she's well in the know about these things!
  • chelle77
    chelle77 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Thank you Pippa 

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    chelle77 said:
    Thank you so much for all your advice I will look into this, I am just exhausted with it all and my metal state has been very badly affected, it was so unfair that they said no to go as I think they had all ready mad there minds up in the morning, there is so much what isn't true in the advisers report even to the point that I have a daughter and take her to nursery ( I don't has a daughter) only my stepdaughter who is 16 and she has had to change her life to help and cook and clean and its put a strain on her that she now has counselling at school and her grades have suffered.
    The only other thing with a new claim I am now on much more meds and have had a diagnoses of : prominent functional neurological disorder which has affected my right hand its now numb : also narrowing of the exit foramina at c6 of my neck, so root entrapment at this level is contributing to a double crush , carpel tunnel and spondylosis in my neck 
    So do I go down this root or just do a new claim   
    It’s easy to obsess on the wrong stuff with PIP and the daughter/step-daughter thing is a fine example. It may well be wrong. It may add fuel to the fire, but, does correcting it score points! 

    Being on more meds or having a new diagnosis or new symptoms are, if not irrelevant, then a side issue. All that matters is your level of functional ability. 

    If, for example, you read your last six lines then the only relevant bit is “my right hand is now numb” but unless you then explain what that now means you can’t do reliably then even that changes nothing. If the things it causes a problem with are ones you already score points on then unless it would move you clearly to a higher points score and that score would bring your total score to more than I points then there’s no point. 

    If you don’t already know the answer to this then the answer remains ... face to face advice.
  • chelle77
    chelle77 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    so what should I do !!!!

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    Er, as already said. Get an SOR/ROP and get face to face advice.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,430 Disability Gamechanger
    Starting a new claim isn't the answer here. A diagnosis, won't help a claim for PIP. Using the same evidence again for another claim will most likely see a refusal again. Take @mikehughescq advice and request the above.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Connected
    Starting a new claim isn't the answer here. A diagnosis, won't help a claim for PIP. Using the same evidence again for another claim will most likely see a refusal again. Take @mikehughescq advice and request the above.
    On the assumption that the claimant can access reasonably local face to face advice and assistance from welfare rights. Many areas no longer offer this and those that do have huge queues of people asking the same.

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