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mandatory reconsideration - had decision back, but it looks like they havent read supporting info

zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
I just got a decision letter back for my pip mandatory reconsideration, saying it was refused.. but it doesn’t look like they have looked at the new evidence I sent in. 

I am hopinb that they look at it again, but I am not sure weather this is it or not.. I plan to ring them tomorrow to get an answer, but was wondering if this had happened to anyone else? 

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    That will be the decision and your next step is the Tribunal request. Only 18% of MR decisions are successful so there was always a very high chance you'll have to take it to Tribunal as most people do.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @zoellies, and a warm welcome to the community!

    I'm sorry to hear this, and hope you get some clarification when you phone them. If you do go to tribunal, this Scope guidance may help you prepare. Do feel free to come back to us with any questions too.


  • lindadeniselindadenise Member Posts: 302 Pioneering
    Same happened to me sent in a supporting letter and they had made there decision the next day. I know they could not of read it because it was only received at there mail centre day before.
    I am going to appeal next monday 17th.



  • zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Hi,

    That will be the decision and your next step is the Tribunal request. Only 18% of MR decisions are successful so there was always a very high chance you'll have to take it to Tribunal as most people do.
    Hello and thanks for your reply, I am actually on hold at the moment and the lady said that it is being looked through again... hopefully this will make a difference but I doubt it! I expect it to go to a tribunal, but I expected them to actually look at all the information I sent first lol 
  • zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Hi @zoellies, and a warm welcome to the community!

    I'm sorry to hear this, and hope you get some clarification when you phone them. If you do go to tribunal, this Scope guidance may help you prepare. Do feel free to come back to us with any questions too.


    Thank you very much, I will have a look at the link you sent shortly.. 

  • zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Ok so after a lengthy discussion with another case manager they havf agreed I have been given wrong information. They did not look at any medical information from my GP as they did not contact them to ask for any info. 

    So all they used to make my decision was the review form I filled in (I’m not good with forms) and what the assessor has said regarding the assessment. I find it astonishing that they do not write to your GP? They had my medical information from my last award, but did not use it...  the lady said that she was going to get a case manager to call me back tomorrow, and hopefully they will allow me some extra time to get some more medical information in, and so they can consider the whole facts of the case. 

    I find it very worryinb that my mental health was assessed by a midwife, she has no qualifications to asses my mental health. 

    I wish there was a way to get a new assessment and I could record everything that was said and also havf my Carer present. This assessor was rude, didn’t listen to me when I tried to explain things and kept cutting me off, like she had no time for me at all. 

    I will update tomorrow with the latest batch of dwp lies lol 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It's the claimants responsibility to send all the evidence to support your claim, you need to prove those descriptors apply to you. It's not their responsibility to prove you qualify. They very rarely contact anyone for evidence.

    A GP very rarely knows exactly how your conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities based on the PIP descriptors.

    A HCP doesn't need to be qualified in any specific condition. All conditions affect people differently. Filling out the form with as much information as possible is the best start to any claim, even for a review. The more information you put the better your chances of an award in your favour.

    I'll be very surprised if they decide to have another look at the decision but i do wish you good luck.


    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
    It's the claimants responsibility to send all the evidence to support your claim, you need to prove those descriptors apply to you. It's not their responsibility to prove you qualify. They very rarely contact anyone for evidence.

    A GP very rarely knows exactly how your conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities based on the PIP descriptors.

    A HCP doesn't need to be qualified in any specific condition. All conditions affect people differently. Filling out the form with as much information as possible is the best start to any claim, even for a review. The more information you put the better your chances of an award in your favour.

    I'll be very surprised if they decide to have another look at the decision but i do wish you good luck.


    Hi and thanks for your reply, 
    they have the medical evidence from 2015, but when making my decision they did not use it. So they did not use all of the information available to them. 


  • zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
    It's the claimants responsibility to send all the evidence to support your claim, you need to prove those descriptors apply to you. It's not their responsibility to prove you qualify. They very rarely contact anyone for evidence.

    A GP very rarely knows exactly how your conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities based on the PIP descriptors.

    A HCP doesn't need to be qualified in any specific condition. All conditions affect people differently. Filling out the form with as much information as possible is the best start to any claim, even for a review. The more information you put the better your chances of an award in your favour.

    I'll be very surprised if they decide to have another look at the decision but i do wish you good luck.


    And actually there is case law that states the following... 

    CPIP/13/2018: Health Care Professional failure to conduct mental function assessment in reliance on what claimant said

    Upper Tribunal Judge: Perez

    In considering the claimant’s appeal, Judge Perez outlines what he had said on his ESA50:

    “The claimant said he has brain damage (pages 11 and 44), has difficulty learning jobs (page 12), is now slower in mental processing (page 44), has a poor memory and uses a memory board to help him remember things (page 44), has trouble remembering where he is going (page 44), showed a card in his wallet where he had counted his money and written down exactly how much he had in there to remind him how much he had taken out with him (page 48), and referred in several places to taking “time” to do things: pages 22 (toilet needs), 24 (dressing) and 32  (budgeting).  He said he “used to work for Remploy but was unable to cope and left 4-5 years ago” (page 44). “

    She then goes on to hold that the tribunal erred in failing to take issue with the Healthcare Professional’s (HCP’s) failure to adequately assess cognitive and intellectual functioning, and finding insufficiently supported by the evidence.

    The HCP had said that –

    “[The claimant] reported that he did not have any mental health difficulties that required further assessment. Therefore, a mental function assessment was not conducted at this time.

    However  he said he is depressed because he lost his career and can’t do what he would like to do, but prefers to keep his depression and feelings to himself and has not consulted anyone about it”

    Judge Perez holds that the HCP decision not to do “a mental function assessment” was wrong for three reasons.: 

    “First, it depended on the claimant’s view of his mental health to decide not to do a “mental function assessment”.  Some descriptors are affected not just by mental ill-health, but by other problems with mental, cognitive or intellectual functioning. 

    Second, even in a claimant who has not reported problems with memory or functioning, it is arguably unreasonable for an assessor to depend on a claimant’s own view of whether an assessment is needed. 

    Third, in this case it was arguably the more unreasonable because the claimant had already asserted problems remembering things and with processing.  So why should the HCP depend on him to report adequately his mental, cognitive or intellectual function? “ 

    She finds that the tribunal erred in failing to take issue with the HCP’s failure adequately to examine the claimant given the evidence suggesting the claimant’s mental, cognitive and intellectual functioning were not normal.

    This included a failure to enquire into discrepancies between his tick-box answers and their prose explanations.

    Also its failure to enquire into discrepancies between the questionnaire and what the claimant reportedly told the HCP

    Judge Perez also finds the tribunal erred in proceeding with a paper hearing.

    It did not specify why it considered it had “adequate information” to do so.

    In addition, it did not  mention the claimant’s letter that said he would be unable to attend because he was unable to find his way to Hanley, not because he did not wish to attend.  She says that this was not an indication of a refusal to attend if a way could be found for him to do so.


    I explained that I was waiting further help from my GP and other charities as I had mental health conditions left untreated due to an unresponsive GP, according to this, the DWP should have requested a mental health assessment.. also it states that asking somebody with mental health issues and cognitive issues is not reliable, and the fact that they the assessor went  Into this assessment knowing this but did not request further information even after I said that my doctor was not sympathetic to mental health issues and was struggling to get help.. instead, she reported that my mood was stable and I had no problem making eye contact.. I have complex ptsd anxiety depression and a whole host of other issues.. at the time my review letter came I had been bed ridden for six months due to my spinal injury and partial paralysis of my left leg. 



  • zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
    edited December 2018
    This is the last paragraph of the mandatory reconsideration letter.. what is said here is not physically possible.. I will explain after you read it.

    relating to mobility and how far I can walk..

    your functional history shows shows that you can with the aid of a walking stick for 20m before you have to stop for a rest. At your assessment you were able to repeatedly walk distances of 15-20 meters at a time with no problems with balance or pain. I have considered the evidence and have decided that you can stand and then move more than 50 meters but no more than 200 meters, either aided or unaided’


    This is is an outright lie, my living room is 5m x 4m and I got up once to fetch my medication, and once to attempt to do the exercises.. so what did this HCP see this happen? Imo this is taking advantage of the situation as it was just me and the assessor there, so my word against hers. However, the logistics of it and the size of the room mean it is impossible for her to have seen me do this, I would have had to be getting up and down every two minutes and walking around circles! 

    How do I deal with this? As it’s an outright lie..?

    This is does not even cover the fact that the complex PTSD and anxiety stop me from being able to function on a normal level. I have short term memory issues, and also can’t leave the house alone, the last time I used public transport I had a full blown ptsd episode, it takes weeks for me to be coaxed out of the house. My medication is so strong I’m like a zombie... fingers crossed I have better luck tomorrow 
  • zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Quick update.. so the DWP did give my mandatory reconsideration a second look but sadly.. no change, despite extra evidence refuting the ridiculous things that the assessor has said..  so I have started the appeal online and it says the DWP are going to respond by the 4th of February but I think that’s just to confirm they want to stick with the meagre points they gave me.. 

    so I’m probably looking at around December next year before I get the tribunal.. great 
  • zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Hi everyone, I have some news! So, I had my tribunal
    last week and I got awarded standard care and enhanced mobility.. I started a fresh claim though in February so it only runs until then. So from October 13 to feb 27.. I wasn’t 100% happy as they only gave me one point for handling my medication, and that was for a dossette box and they didn’t seem to care that I have to have my meds managed by the pharmacy my Carer makes sure o have my morning meds every day or I sleep and don’t take them, and also I forget that I have taken them and double up..  either way I I’m just glad that they saw it my way.. I just hope that with the new claim they don’t try the same thing.. I have sent all the medical evidence in with it and even more than I had got the tribunal.. so I’m hoping that this time I won’t have to go through a tribunal again. 

    I will keep you updated on the new claim, and also how long it takes to get my backdated money! 

    All the best 

    andy 
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,954

    Scope community team

    Hi @zoellies, I've just been reading back on your thread, I'm glad it wasn't as long a wait as initially thought. Congratulations on your win!
    Have you had your award through for your new PIP application?
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • zoellieszoellies Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Hi @zoellies, I've just been reading back on your thread, I'm glad it wasn't as long a wait as initially thought. Congratulations on your win!
    Have you had your award through for your new PIP application?
    Hi Adrian, 
    no, the first set of forms got ‘lost’ so I had an extension and sent in them the day after my tribunal and am now waiting for a reply. If I’m honest, I’m not sure what’s going to happen this time round.. will they try and refuse me again after winning at the tribunal? I’m pretty certain that the panel would not be impressed to see me back again! And with all the medical evidence I have sent them this time, I’m a lot more confined regarding the decision.. 

    in a perfevf world thry woukd say, don’t bother with a F2F as we have all relevant information and give me a break 😂😂 but we know that’s not how it works lol

    thanks buddy 
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