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ptp tribunal advice please
mic67
Member Posts: 38 Listener
Hi all, i had my pip tribunal today and won, i was so shocked i didnt ask any questions! does anyone know how long it takes until i start recieving pip and if its backpaid at all? i originally applied 15 months ago many thanx
Replies
i applied 15 months ago and got zero points then won at tribunal, does that make a difference? many thanx
Because they changed it, it means the decision applies for the entire claim period. So yes it will be backdated.
It is right to say that a PIP claim cannot be backdated as there are no backdating rules.
PIP will have to pay your claim from the date you applied, so poppy123456 is correct, but this isn't "backdating" in the true meaning of backdating within benefits law. It's just that they are paying your claim from your claim date, albeit 15 months ago. I don't know whether that is where you have misunderstood the CAB, or whether they were actually wrong in what they meant.
Lee
what is an error in law? is it that they disagree with what a judge a doctor and a neurologist said at the tribunal? im lost with this, i would have thought when a tribunal is won that would be the end! Its madness!
If i asked about payments would that effect my 'case' ?
i phoned cab who told me to contact my MP
would you agree? im worried it would rile the dwp and obviously i dont want to do anything that jepordises
so i dont contact the court at all? just dwp?
i havent rung dwp since i got the letter today
all i get told is that the DWP STILL have not received the SOR, its 5 months since the tribunal now
its a joke how they treat people
mic67
You were advised in both January and February to get face to face advice but don’t appear to have done so. I appreciate there may be health related reasons for that but you haven’t said so and now cannot make any progress on this issue unless you either accept the delay and let things play out or get face to face advice regarding a complaint/letter before action. This forum really can’t offer any more than it has in that regard. The current situation as I see it is as follows:
1 - you won your appeal but DWP won’t pay out as they believe the decision may be erroneous in law. They have sought an SOR and ROP (record of proceedings) to help them look at whether the tribunal did err in law. On the one hand most reasonable people would expect DWP to not recklessly pay out if there was a prospect the decision could be flawed. On the other hand this can be hugely distressing when people are waiting 3/4 of a year or much longer just to get a hearing. Nevertheless if you want to change the current situation your target is both DWP and HMCTS.
DWP require a letter before action to ask them to put the tribunals decision into place. It’s the only decision which currently exists. Delaying for a few weeks is acceptable but as that slips into months I’d say much less so. You can do LBAs yourself but really it needs face to face advice and support as the matter may well require further legal action to kick DWP into action. DWP did nothing wrong requesting the SOR/ROP (you’d have probably done the same if you’d lost) but equally they have to recognise when the delay becomes unsupportable. Whichever way you dress it up phone advice or forum advice isn’t going to cut it. You need representation.
2 - HMCTS are most likely responsible for the delay. When DWP lodge their request for an SOR/ROP HMCTS admin., who have been in a state of perpetual mess for at least 3 decades, sometimes record the request as having been passed to the judge when it has not.
DWP have no incentive to check or chase that because after all why such failure to pass the request on means another time period passes in which they don't have to pay up.
Assuming it’s not administration messing up then you have to look at who the request was passed to. Salaried judges are full-time and probably sit 4 days a week. That’s the equivalent of maybe 32 hearings and decisions per week. Think if it as doing 2 3 hour exams 80% of your working life and you’ll get an idea that although they are well-rewarded they also work flat out to earn it. Let’s assume (generously) that only 10% of appellants or their reps. ask for an SOR/ROP. That would be more than 3 a week. Whilst the ROP requires no effort as it’s just their notes on the day, the SOR has to be constructed from scratch using their notes from the day and their powers of recall. Depending on how old the appeal is there may not even be appeal papers to help. It’s time-consuming and difficult even when it goes well. 1 decision might take 1/2 a day to put together or longer. You have 3 decisions pw to expand on but only 1 day left pw to do them in and even that assumes you’re not sitting or doing something else. It’s not hard to see how even a full-time judge could get 3 requests pw but not even get through 1.
If the judge were fee paid/part-time they may sit varying amounts each week but they’ll also likely have another job to maintain their income. They didn’t at 1 stage even get paid for every SOR/ROP request. If they sit as a judge 1 day a week and work elsewhere for the other 4 days and also get 10% of decisions triggering requests then they’d still have 1 or 2 requests each week but only their evenings and weekends to do them in.
You might begin to see where delays come in. That doesn’t excuse those delays but once you understand the process it’s much easier to devise effective challenges.
On the HMCTS side you need support to write (this really isn’t going to be solved with a phone call to an ill-equipped HMCTS call centre) and ask HMCTS what date they got the request from DWP; when they passed it to a judge; confirmation it actually happened; how many reminders the judge has had so far and so on. Depending on the answer you may have grounds for a complaint.
At this stage your choices are not either/or. You really need to be doing both.
Scope community team
It's rare but unfortunately the judge can take as long as they want to write the SOR. Have you tried contacting the court clerk to chase it up? The DWP aren't going to push them for it and as they've requested it, they aren't required to do anything with your claim until it's received, so it's worth you doing.
Scope
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Thankyou very much for the replies, In response to not seeking advice.. i have had a face to face with my MP end of february and also with a chap from welfare rights, i have tried every avenue i know of, CAB were no help at all. my MP has written to Amber Rudd and HMCT with a complaint letter from my carer and myself as to the effect all this is having as i has an MS relapse due to the stress. None of this seems to have made any difference. i saw the last comment on here from 'Adrian' which says the judge can take as long as they like basically, thats exactly what i was told the last time i rang the courts (friday). They arent interested that its been 5 months now since the tribunal after waiting a year and a half for that tribunal, its soul destroying. The advice i got from welfare rights was to just apply again for pip. I am just clutching at straws by asking if anyone has any advice as im just lost and so tired of it all. many thanks
Im not sure what LBAs means? and who could help me? can i contact 'mike' directly for his advice?
He also said its a shame solicitors dont do free surgeries anymore as i could benefit from seeing one! Thanks for the link il have a look on there.
Scope community team
Please don't reapply, that is terrible advice and I'm sorry if Welfare Rights told you to do so.
The Citizens Advice Bureau have a few suggestions for free legal advice, some of which specialise in benefit claims. The LawWorks section at the bottom might be of particular relevance.
Scope
Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey.
Thankyou for your advice, much appreciated!
'Another thought given the delay & especially if the DWP are given permission to take the case to the Upper Tribunal is to claim again , especially as you mention a relapse. If you were considering this I would like to look through your appeal papers.
I appreciate that this involves more hassle and complicates things but it is worth considering.
Best wishes'