PIP descriptors

worried33

Does anyone have any opinion on the following.

I am putting in a claim for PIP as I need the money and believe I qualify.

However the only thing I Am confident I qualify for is low rate mobility (50m walking distance).

However the following do also apply to me.

I definitely have distress when going out using my stroller, as my age I feel like people are staring at me etc.  It's enough it often prevents me using it, which usually means not going out at all, as I understand it points can be awarded for this.

For daily living the following apply to me, but I believe this only gives me 4 points so no entitlement to anything.

I have an aid for going toilet.
An aid for using the bath.
In considerable pain washing my hair.
I can do basic cooking tasks without an aid like putting something in the oven or microwave, but anything that requires preparation like slicing cheese, hob type cooking and washing up dishes I need to use my stool for so I have something to sit on (an aid).
Occasionally but not all the time I also need to use an aid to help me dress and undress, I have a whats known as a grabber or reacher, which I use to help take socks on and off as well as trousers when on occasions I am unable to bend to do that action.  But it is not all the time.

I would appreciate thoughts, thanks.

maya605

Hi @worried33 and welcome. I’m new to all of this as well. The advice I would give you is base all your answers on your worst days. I wouldn’t put some days I can and some days I can’t. Don’t base it on good days. 

Yadnad

maya605 said:

Hi @worried33 and welcome. I’m new to all of this as well. The advice I would give you is base all your answers on your worst days. I wouldn’t put some days I can and some days I can’t. Don’t base it on good days. 

Wrong! If a disability results in an impact and is matched to a descriptor And it is variable then that is what you should show.

By claiming that the worst day is like that for every day and that it does not vary, than you are actually carrying out benefit fraud.
Be truthful and say it as it is.

poppy123456

Sorry, but that's not great advice to base filling out the form on your worst day.  PIP isn't about your worst days. It's how you are 50% of the time based on a 12 month period.

If someone fills out their form based on their worst day and when it comes to their face to face assessment they're having one of their good days then the HCP will immediately see through this and think "well if that's their bad day, they can't be as bad as they said they were"

Always tell the truth and nothing more.

clp

Hi
Just opened my brown envelope and have been awarded standard daily living and enhanced mobility.  I listed the drugs I was on and my conditions, both lengthy lists and for each question I answered honestly but gave gave examples eg to make a cup of coffee I fill kettle and sit down.  After a few mins I get cup and put coffee in it and turn kettle on again.  Then i sit down and eventually I add water to cup and carry to my chair.  I also said at work they make coffee for me as I can't stand long enough to wait for kettle to boil.  I had a home visit (not requested) and did not send any additional information.  They have awarded it for 6 years.  Now I know this is probably a once in a lifetime experience but I do feel that if you give detailed examples which are backed up by your physical movement etc then it gets better results then just concentrating on illness.  I work in a GP surgery and we are never approached by DWP for PIP awards which fits as all we can tell them is about your illness not it's impact.  No one person reacts in the same way to the same illness.  How I react to pain is different to 20 years ago then I hadnt experienced it but now I have so a 10 for me means pain bad enough to pass out.  Generally not most people's experience.  The process itself is long winded and almost designed to confuse so don't worry about that as it's the same for everyone and you can't change it.  Do your best completing the form and then know it's a long wait with confusing texts and letters saying the same thing and absolutely no clarity.   None of which is your fault or aimed at you it's just an awful system.  Good luck and I am sure you will get through it.

worried33

Yes I have no intention of claiming bad days are an every day occurence.  As has been pointed out a f2f assessor would see through that.

I just wanted some advise on how I should be reporting my problems and specifically what counts as needing aid to prepare food as its not clear in the descriptors.

Poppy has partially answered with the 50% of the time criteria which I am grateful for.  I would say I dont need to use aids 50% of the time for undressing so that wont be emphasised.

But I do need aids more than 50% of the time for hob cooking, preparation type cooking like slicing cheese and as well as washing up.  But I dont need it for very basic cooking, this is the bit I am still confused about, is the descriptor only for basic cooking tasks?

poppy123456

The cooking and preparing a simple meal, means from fresh ingredients. A perching stool is an aid for cooking.

This link, although very long, is well worth reading because it will give you a little more understanding of what the descriptors mean.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

minniemoo

Hi @worried33 when completing the pip for I personally broke each section of the questions down and answered in detail onto A4 sheets with heading to each descriptor. I also kept a daily diary and sent a copy of a weekly account in with the pip form. Good Luck ? 

Yadnad

poppy123456 said:

The cooking and preparing a simple meal, means from fresh ingredients. A perching stool is an aid for cooking.

This link, although very long, is well worth reading because it will give you a little more understanding of what the descriptors mean.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

Just a side issue as regards cooking. I understand what they are asking for but I do really wonder how someone can answer the questions if they have never made a meal (of any size and type) in their life. Obviously I know what a carrot looks like and that you have to peel a potato (having seen it done many times). My wife has done all of the cooking and baking and before that my mother. Being just the two of us now, my wife does very little cooking and I, in the main, have ready meals for one from the supermarkets - M&S, Waitrose etc. - Simple meal from fresh ingredients, I would not know where to start.
 

poppy123456

Not being able to cook or never having cooked doesn't count. What does count is can you cook a meal from scratch using fresh ingredients. This includes cutting/pealing veg, using pans safely, carrying the pans from the cooker etc. If you can't do any of this, why can't you do it and what would happen if you did try to do it.

Same for all the other descriptors that apply. You say washing your hair causes you pain but can you wash it yourself? If you can, why can't you do? What happened the last time you attempted to do it yourself?

You say you use an aid sometimes to dress and undress. How often do you use this aid and why do you use it? What happened the last time you attempt to dress and undress when you didn't use the aid?

Going by what you said above, you won't score enough points for a daily living award. Are there any other descriptors that may apply to you? Have you looked at the link i posted above?

You say you're distressed when you go out because of the aid you use. Do you go out alone or do you need someone with you when you do go out? If you need someone with you, what happened the last time you attempted or went out alone?

These are all the things they will look at when assessing you. You need to give examples for each descriptor that applies.

Yadnad

poppy123456 said:

Not being able to cook or never having cooked doesn't count. What does count is can you cook a meal from scratch using fresh ingredients. This includes cutting/pealing veg, using pans safely, carrying the pans from the cooker etc. If you can't do any of this, why can't you do it and what would happen if you did try to do it. 

If you have never cooked that question is hypothetical. It may well be the case that if they physically attempted to cook it would be a disaster. Does the descriptor suggest that for those who haven't a clue how to start cooking should try to?
 In a way that descriptor would only apply to those that know how to cook but have problems in doing so.
Seems a tad unfair to me. Maybe if I did try I would be a natural chef or on the other hand put myself in hospital having sliced a finger off or dropped the pan of boiling water over my legs and feet. 

poppy123456

Whether it would be a disaster or not, not being able to cook because you've never cooked isn't part of the criteria for that descriptor. Lets be honest, if this was taken into consideration there would a lot of people scoring points for this descriptor.

Yadnad

poppy123456 said:

Whether it would be a disaster or not, not being able to cook because you've never cooked isn't part of the criteria for that descriptor. Lets be honest, if this was taken into consideration there would a lot of people scoring points for this descriptor.

I agree, it is a ridiculous descriptor if we go down that road.
But it appears that only those claimants that know how to cook and have experience of doing so could ever get points under that heading.
The mind boggles.

poppy123456

I'm not even sure why your mind boggles on this one because it makes perfect sense to me. I have no idea why you think that those that don't know how to cook, could score points here.

cristobal

I agree @poppy123456.....if you don't  cook (through choice, because you've never learned) and prefer to live of microwave meals then you will score nil points.

Cooking is a basic skill which everyone can attempt to some degree. It's not like you're being asked whether you can ride a unicycle, or weave a Persian rug!

cristobal

On a more serious note, I second @minniemoo 's comments about keeping a diary.

My condition is variable. When I first applied for PIP, if you had asked me how often I could/ could not carry out a task I wouldn't  have know.

I kept a diary for a couple of weeks which made filling out the form easier. Also, when I had my assessment I could confidently say, for example, that five or six days a week I couldn't do 'X'. The assessor seemed particularly keen to suggest "twice a week" as an alternative but I stuck to my guns....

worried33

I will do the diary thanks for the advice.

I looked at the descriptors, and do find them confusing but the engaging with other people I think I would score 2 or 4 points on that, I think more likely 2 tho.

So 2 points bathing aid, 2 points cooking aid, 2 points toilet aid, 2 points engaging face to face with people.  I think this would be maximum, so if an assessor was awkward accepting any of these descriptors I wouldnt meet the criteria.

Also I have booked an appointment with my GP to get evidence of all of the above.  The aid's will be visible to the assessor, but at the very least I want evidence from my GP for the engaging with people.

Yadnad

cristobal said:

I agree @poppy123456.....if you don't  cook (through choice, because you've never learned) and prefer to live of microwave meals then you will score nil points.

Cooking is a basic skill which everyone can attempt to some degree. It's not like you're being asked whether you can ride a unicycle, or weave a Persian rug!

It's not a choice, it's a fact that many people in this country can't cook for many reasons. One being that they have never been taught how to.
Those of my generation (males born in the 1940's) see the household chores that mum then wife does the cooking.
Personally I have never had the need to want to cook.
Many couples of my daughters' age (38) have wonderful and expensive fitted kitchens but the hob and oven are as new as never been used. Couples today just use the microwave combi unit.

Neither of my daughters' buy fresh ingredients preferring to use packaged meals and/or takeaways. Both are professionally qualified and work full time.  
 
The descriptor will not change obviously but to me it appears to be biased only towards those that know/have some prior knowledge of how to cook a simple meal.

I would add and finish on this note. My first wife back in the early 60's also had no idea how to prepare and cook anything. Her idea of a good meal consisted of prepared potatoes that came in a tin, and tinned peas with a chicken that had been cooked by the supermarket. The tins of potatoes and peas were warmed up still in their tins on the hob for a few minutes and served! She was far from uneducated in that she was a brilliant classical musician, composer and head of music at the local grammar school.

minniemoo

Thankyou @cristobal I was successful at my appeal only this week and it was defiantly my diaries that won my case as when you actually sit in front of the panel your mind goes blank (well mine did) you say to yourself if they ask me this il say that but honestly with my diary I could reflect back to the panel my exact good days and bad days and why I couldn’t prepare and cook a freshly made meal from starting to finishing the task also safely as well. Also after pointing out which was also reflected in my diary under the realibilty ctiteria I could not carry out the task safely to an acceptable standard repeatedly and in a reasonable time period yes I was asked how far I could walk? I referred them to my diary do you mean until I’m in pain, tired and could not repeat unless I had a reasonable time to rest in between. A diary is worth its weight in gold answers the majority of their questions ?

minniemoo

worried33 said:

I will do the diary thanks for the advice.

I looked at the descriptors, and do find them confusing but the engaging with other people I think I would score 2 or 4 points on that, I think more likely 2 tho.

So 2 points bathing aid, 2 points cooking aid, 2 points toilet aid, 2 points engaging face to face with people.  I think this would be maximum, so if an assessor was awkward accepting any of these descriptors I wouldnt meet the criteria.

Also I have booked an appointment with my GP to get evidence of all of the above.  The aid's will be visible to the assessor, but at the very least I want evidence from my GP for the engaging with people.

minniemoo

Hi @worried33 just a little note they might ask you who issued your aids and when as people can purchase there own from a mobility shop so if they have been issued via physio etc; see if you can get evidence of this I had a walking aid assement at home so I sent in the letter with my info hope this helps x