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PlNning a journey - PIP Mobility descriptor

GroundhogGroundhog Member Posts: 5 Listener
edited January 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
hi,
four years ago I had an abdominal operation which went terribly wrong.  Very long story but I now have 3 stoma bags and no hope of a fix.  I have permanenet damage to my bowel called an enterocutaneous fistula.  I have other health issues including severe anxiety, depression and see a psychiatrist because of what happened.  
i have just gone through a PIP review.  I’ve had the assessment report but no decision yet.  The care side of the report is fine but the mobility side is not and if the decision follows the report I will lose the car.  I have had no points for planning a journey,  last time I had 4 points which totalled 12 so I had the car.
i explained I get very anxious going anywhere and will not go to unfamiliar places alone.  This is down to anxiety and the fact my bags leak and so I have to keep checking them to avoid a small leak becoming a big one.  I just would not drive to an unfamiliar place on my own because if my anxieties.  This is basically unchanged from my original application but now I have zero points.  She made reference to the fact I went to a London hospital and used the train and taxis but I was with my husband,
so what are the criteria for this descriptor.  Is anxiety and extreme angst about the stoma bags leaking enough,  it was last time but this time no and I wondered if things have changed ?
thank you 

Replies

  • Antonia_AlumniAntonia_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 1,781 Pioneering
    Hi @Groundhog

    Welcome to the community.

    I am sorry to hear about what you have been going through.  I can understand why you would feel anxious. Some of our members may be able to relate and offer you some advice soon.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,352 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello and welcome, the fact that you can drive a car if only to local places you know then you will not get any points for planning a journey, the fact that you can drive proves that your mental status is good as we all know you need good concentration to be able to drive today. So the only way you are going to keep your mobility award is that you are able to meet the PIP descriptors. Putting in for an MR in the required time frame and if needed a tribunal hearing which can take 12 months to come through.
  • GroundhogGroundhog Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thank you for your replies.  When I applied in 2016 on roughly the same circumstances I was awarded 12 points for mobility,  I sold my car and got a notability vehicle.  In 2017 they tried to repair my bowel and nearly killed me off! I had respiratory failure sepsis etc.  My physical and mental health are worse now than in 2016 yet this time round I’ve had 8 points.
    this is why I think maybe I shouldn’t have had it in 2016 as I said then I could make short local journeys within the town I live.  
    I probably won’t appeal as I’m grateful for the rest of the award.  
    So people who get panicky and anxious  over the thought of planning a journey would not be sufficient to meet this descriptor.  As I said I don’t go out on my own as I’m too anxious and if I had to drive tomorrow anywhere other than local, then I wouldn’t be able to do it, I would be consumed with anxiety.  But it seems if I havethe mental cognition to drive albeit locally that negates me from meeting the descriptor,  is that right ?
    thank you for your replies I am grateful.  I don’t want to appeal if I have no chance, just too stressful. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    I disagree with the advice that driving a car will stop you from being awarded points in following and planning a journey for your condition. As you need assistance to be able to go out alone, even when you're driving then you should have scored some points in this descriptor.

    You need to focus on the reasons why you don't go out alone and what happened the last time you went or attempted to go out alone.

    If you were saying that because of cognitive issues you don't go out alone but drive your car then this is totally different. As you haven't mentioned any issues like this then there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't have score points in this descriptor.

    You really need face to face expert advice regarding this because no one on an internet forum can tell you whether there's any risks to the award you may already have. https://advicelocal.uk/

    This link may help you understand the mobility activities a little more.




    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • GroundhogGroundhog Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thank you Poppy.
    im confused because of the award last time.
    i don’t go out alone as I have three bags that leak ( fistula is notoriously difficult to manage and differs from a stoma , which I also have ).
    the reason I don’t drive alone is I am really anxious about driving now , my confidence is shattered and I get really overwhelmed if it’s somewhere I don’t know.  Maybe I’m just not a good driver! I don’t think that is the case, it’s all down to anxiety and lack of confidence.  Plus I have to keep a check on the bags which I can’t do if I’m driving, I can tell when the bags start to leak and then can avoid it getting any worse, I would not be able to this whilst driving.
    thank you for the advice and links, I will check this out later. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Groundhog said:
    Thank you Poppy.
    im confused because of the award last time.
    i don’t go out alone as I have three bags that leak ( fistula is notoriously difficult to manage and differs from a stoma , which I also have ).
    the reason I don’t drive alone is I am really anxious about driving now , my confidence is shattered and I get really overwhelmed if it’s somewhere I don’t know.  Maybe I’m just not a good driver! I don’t think that is the case, it’s all down to anxiety and lack of confidence.  Plus I have to keep a check on the bags which I can’t do if I’m driving, I can tell when the bags start to leak and then can avoid it getting any worse, I would not be able to this whilst driving.
    thank you for the advice and links, I will check this out later. 
    You question why the previous award was more generous than the one that has been given recently.

    Every decision maker is not ruled by what another decision maker decided. You could well have say 10 decision makers all looking at the same case yet you will probably find that most of the decisions they make on that case are miles apart from what others have decided.

    A lot depends on how the they 'feel' about the case, how lenient they want to be, how understanding they are even down to if they had a barney with their wife/husband that morning that has put them in a bad mood.
  • GroundhogGroundhog Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Sorry to bring this up again, still not sure whether or not to ask for a mandatory reconsideration.  I don’t want something I’m nit entitled to but on the basis they awarded it last time and now haven’t when circumstances haven’t changed, I feel I should.  I really do not understand the descriptor ad there are so many different interpretations online,  
    poppy, the link you sent me says this 

    Descriptor B (4 points): Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant

    This descriptor applies to claimants where undertaking any journey causes overwhelming psychological distress (OPD) and where they need prompting (‘prompting’ means reminding, encouraging or explaining by another person) on the majority of days to be able to undertake the journey. In practice, this is only likely to apply in the circumstance where someone needs prompting to set off on the journey, but would not need another person whilst on the journey itself.


    So does that mean whilst someone would need prompting to make the journey, once in the car they don’t need help??  That had confused me even more as I thought if you drive at all then you don’t qualify . I’m so confused , I wish I could get some clarity in my mind, this is trundling through my head like a steam train.  I’ve qualified for a motability car for 32 years!  Now I don’t , even though my physical health and mental health is worse than ever ( thanks to surgeons perforating my bowel and leaving me with 3 stoma bags, see original post) because of all the trauma, I see a psychiatrist yet now I don’t qualify.

    I don’t understand. 

  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    I can't offer any advice but just wanted to say that you're not alone in being confused!

    I scored points on this, even though I had written "I don't have any problems". I've read the HCP's report but still don't really understand why.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I've just read through what you previously wrote above and you said this.
    "i explained I get very anxious going anywhere and will not go to unfamiliar places alone."

    Descriptor B is about needing prompting, do you need prompting to be able to go out? If you don't then this descriptor is not the correct one for you.

    You say you don't go to an unfamiliar place alone, what about a familiar place? Would you go to the shop alone? If you would go to a familiar place alone then why can't you go to an unfamiliar place alone? You need to explain what happens why you do these things if you were alone and why you need someone else with you.

    It's difficult to give any advice like this on an internet forum which is why you really should look at getting some face to face advice from an advice centre near you. No one can really tell you if there's any risks to the award you may already have by requesting the MR.

    This link will help tell you what's available in your area. https://advicelocal.uk/

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Groundhog said:
    Sorry to bring this up again, still not sure whether or not to ask for a mandatory reconsideration.  I don’t want something I’m nit entitled to but on the basis they awarded it last time and now haven’t when circumstances haven’t changed, I feel I should.  I really do not understand the descriptor ad there are so many different interpretations online,  
    poppy, the link you sent me says this 

    Descriptor B (4 points): Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant

    This descriptor applies to claimants where undertaking any journey causes overwhelming psychological distress (OPD) and where they need prompting (‘prompting’ means reminding, encouraging or explaining by another person) on the majority of days to be able to undertake the journey. In practice, this is only likely to apply in the circumstance where someone needs prompting to set off on the journey, but would not need another person whilst on the journey itself.


    So does that mean whilst someone would need prompting to make the journey, once in the car they don’t need help??  That had confused me even more as I thought if you drive at all then you don’t qualify . I’m so confused , I wish I could get some clarity in my mind, this is trundling through my head like a steam train.  I’ve qualified for a motability car for 32 years!  Now I don’t , even though my physical health and mental health is worse than ever ( thanks to surgeons perforating my bowel and leaving me with 3 stoma bags, see original post) because of all the trauma, I see a psychiatrist yet now I don’t qualify.

    I don’t understand. 

    We seem to be looking at different descriptors. To get the Enhanced Mobility award AND be entitled to a Motability car, you have to score 12 points or more under section 2 of the Mobility Descriptors. Whilst you may well gain the Enhanced rate under section 1, it will NOT give you the entitlement to a Mobility car. 
  • GroundhogGroundhog Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Sorry I should have explained I have 8 points for moving around.  It is just the 4 points for planning a journey I have lost but obviously these 4 points mean on,y the standard rate is payable which does not entitled me to remain in the motability scheme which I have been in for 32 years. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Groundhog said:
    Sorry I should have explained I have 8 points for moving around.  It is just the 4 points for planning a journey I have lost but obviously these 4 points mean on,y the standard rate is payable which does not entitled me to remain in the motability scheme which I have been in for 32 years. 
    Ah I see. So you need another 4 points for Section 2 to get another Motability car. Get those and you don't need to worry about Section 1 at all.
    At the moment you are receiving Standard Mobility based on the 8 points awarded under Section 2.


  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    ilovecats said:
    Groundhog said:

    So people who get panicky and anxious  over the thought of planning a journey would not be sufficient to meet this descriptor.  
    There must be signs of 'overwhelming psychological distress' or a sensory / cognitive impairment in order to meet this criteria. 
    Unfortunately just feeling panicky and anxious is not enough to satisfy the criteria for OPD. There would have to be evidence of a severe mental health impairment supported by a specialist mental health professional.
    otherwise everybody who become stressed over a face to face assessment would be getting points - ridiculous.
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