Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Urge Incontinence & bowel incontience , can not reach toilet in time ESA Support group?

zoobzoob Member Posts: 5 Listener
hello everyone ...please can any one advise me  regarding ESA incontience and the support group I am unable to reach a toilet on every occasion ? I am in the support  group presently for various health conditions but expect the postman will soon deliver a brown envelope for me to be reassessed ..following removal of a spinal cord tumour I am left with  sudden urge incontience ..I also have sudden bowel urge I am on laxatives to assist a daily bowel movement the problem I have is I am unable  on many occasions to reach my toilet( 6 metres measured distance from my chair)   in time due to my mobility problems I need physical support & my lift and rise chair  to stand & to sit on & off a toilet I do wear pads provided by incontience team NHS but they do leak I do soil  clothing at least  3/4 times  weekly would my lack of mobility be taken in to consideration? I have been told urge incontience is not considered.for ESA support group ...I have other health conditions but thought I would start with this one any ideas ?thank you zoob .

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    You're correct, urge incontinence is not considered for Support Group. Mobilising (mobility is) however, for this they take into consideration your ability to self propel a wheelchair so you'll need to think about that too.

    My advice when filling out the form would be to concentrate on your mobilising and use of a self propel wheelchair and if you can't do this, your reasons why.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • zoobzoob Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thank you for your reply my incontinence nurse thinks I may also have another type of bladder incontinence I think she said overactive bladder but I can’t remember ( brain fog)  I am waiting to find out ,however in the meantime what is the the type incontinence that does qualify for eligibility for support group?does urge incontinece qualify for the 15 points required for LCWA group? Also does my bowel incontinece qualify me for suport group or LCWA / support group I get no warning and often do not know I have had a bowel movement .
    I do have mobility issues and could not propel a wheelchair due to my chronic pain syndrome which I have had for decades and oestoarthritis in both my hands ..I would rather not talk to a stranger (HP)in an assessment situation about my incontinece if at all possible as I get extremely embarrassed & very upset about this part of my health conditions.thank you 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    LCWRA and Support Group are the same thing. Being placed into this group isn't about scoring points, it's about satisfying at least one of the Support Group descriptors.

    I would advise you to get further expert advice regarding the incontinence, if that's the condition you're going to be aiming for, for the entry into the Support Group, otherwise it will be mobilising if you can't walk the required distance without pain and discomfort or self propel a wheelchair.

    Either way, you'll need evidence of how your conditions affect you to support your claim. Remember, it's not about a diagnosis.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • zoobzoob Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thank you for your reply Poppy ,would you know where I could get expert advice 
     Regarding the incontinece? sorry I am finding all of this extremely difficult to understand..i have trouble thinking straight at times.
    I think my spinal cord tumour damage affecting my lower limbs mobility and balance problems with my risk of falls and my oesteoathritis in hands & chronic pain syndrome which affects my hands & all of my body might be enough to continue my support group eligibility I am also unable to sit in an upright position with out extreme pain as I also have degenerative discs at 4/5 because of this I have been reassesd recently for a new attendant wheel chair which has recline position and leg support (assessed & supplied by local authority wheel chair services )  however  I am also aware just how unfair & cruel the system can be reading through some of the posts ! thank you again 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2019
    To gain entry in the support group through incontinence you would need to experience extensive evacuation of bowel or bladder at least once per week, this must also be when you're conscious. It must also be sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing. You will need good medical evidence to prove this. If this doesn't apply to you then i'd advise sticking to the mobilising/self propel wheelchair.

    I suffer with incontinence too, i also have mobility issues and i was recently re-assessed for ESA and remained in the support group for mobilising and being unable to self propel. I knew i wouldn't have remained in the support group through incontinence so i didn't concentrate on that. My whole form was mostly about my mobility and how it affects me.

    Sitting in an upright position isn't a support group descriptor. It's transferring from one seated position to another.

    Remember we only ever hear the bad stories.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • zoobzoob Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thanks again poppy so glad to have your understanding of my situation.i hope my mobility issues are enough to remain in the support group.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome. Good luck.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • GettinOldeGettinOlde Member Posts: 495 Pioneering
    edited June 2019

    A WCA and MR failed me in 2012 for incontinence, but a tribunal found in my favour awarding 15 points., but I am now having to go through the whole process again.
    you would need to experience extensive evacuation of bowel or bladder at least once per week

    I thought this was once per week - has it changed?

    It must also be sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing. You will need good medical evidence to prove this.
    How - would having an 'extensive evacuation' during a WCA be evidence suffice?

    The Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2012


    9. Absence or loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting) despite the presence of any aids or adaptations normally used.
    [15 points]

    9(a) At least once a month experiences:
    (i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or
    (ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing.
    [6 points]

    9(b) At risk of loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder, sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing, if not able to reach a toilet quickly.

    (c) None of the above apply.
    [0 points]



    Resident joker - not to be taken too seriously ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • GettinOldeGettinOlde Member Posts: 495 Pioneering
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I edited my post to include a query about providing 'evidence'.
    Resident joker - not to be taken too seriously ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm afraid i have no idea of the answer to that. You really should get some face to face advice because it's very difficult to give this sort of advice on a forum when no one knows how your conditions affect you. This link will help you find what's available in your area. https://advicelocal.uk/

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • zakbloodzakblood Member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    have the same problem with bowels and bladder and also failed a WCA for ESA, with a 0 score but past in for the last 20 years, so it's how they assess on the day, as my reply and report sent in form etc has been the same, other than putting, overall i'm getting worse, with medical proof to go along side of it, not that it got read, understood on even classed as an issue, so the 0 score in there eyes is fine, 12 years ago i also over turned it at tribunal and look forward hopefully to do is asap, after i get a MR reply in the next 2 weeks or so after a 58 day wait so far from failure date
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