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Fluctuating conditions Fibromyalgia amongst others and pips

te1

HI
Any advice would be appreciated with regards to fluctuating conditions when filling in the form as I have good and bad days and weeks. From what I’ve read they say tell them about good and bad days but as it stands at the moment I’ve not had a good day for the last 6weeks. And never have a pain free day or can function on a day to day basis with the brain ? fog and fatigue I suppose it’s best to try and explain this with the activies they ask you

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mdam

Hi te1
I had my pip review about 4 years ago and was given a 6 year award before review needed. It is important to state how difficult it is for you because of the pain and weakness. As soon as you say you can do it sometimes because of a ''good' day, some assessors will mark you down and say you can do it. I was really poorly on the assessment day so it did help. But be very thorough on your form and fill it in with details relating to a bad day.

poppy123456

mdam said:

But be very thorough on your form and fill it in with details relating to a bad day.

Sorry but this is the worst advice. Never fill out the forms based on your worst day. By doing this when you attend the assessment, if you're having one of your better days it's very likely the HCP will see straight through this and think you can't be as bad as you say you are.

PIP is about how you are at least 50% of the time over a 12 month period. You should always fill out the form stating exactly how your conditions affect you everyday.

twonker

But would assessors see through a claimant where no claim for a particular difficulty exists, where it had not been mentioned on the claim form but that the assessor saw that difficulty at the assessment? Does it work both ways in the way that the assessor should be looking for the missing claims that should have been made?

If they should be doing that then my assessor failed miserably to spot many issues that I had not made reference to as I made a complete hash of the claim form.

CockneyRebel

HCP's are only human, if you have missed entering qualifying conditions then the assessor could easily think that the obsereved condition is only temporary The onus is on the claimant to submit their best case. Some HCP's

twonker

ilovecats said:

twonker said:

But would assessors see through a claimant where no claim for a particular difficulty exists, where it had not been mentioned on the claim form but that the assessor saw that difficulty at the assessment? Does it work both ways in the way that the assessor should be looking for the missing claims that should have been made?

If they should be doing that then my assessor failed miserably to spot many issues that I had not made reference to as I made a complete hash of the claim form.

Assessors will pick up things that people don’t claim for but they see a difficulty with.

A common one is Activity 5. People often say they have no problems but then are witnessed to struggle sitting and standing which would indicate the use of aids within that activity.

Is that referring to having to hang on to the sink with the left hand whilst trying to balance forward to clean myself after being to the toilet? Something that I am obliged to do in order to avoid falling forward through lack of balance. I presume therefore you are suggesting that the bathroom sink is an aid? Can't see how as it is not a specialist aid, it's just an ordinary sink found in most bathrooms. In any event it is only worth 2 points which are here nor there in the grand scheme of things.

twonker

CockneyRebel said:

HCP's are only human, if you have missed entering qualifying conditions then the assessor could easily think that the obsereved condition is only temporary The onus is on the claimant to submit their best case. Some HCP's

It's OK saying that. I presume you have completed one of those claim forms and must know how awful it is to complete. I tried to think where my problems existed and why. After looking at the form for over two weeks I lost all interest in the thing as filling it in and the thinking bit made me tired and depressed.

fossoux

Any item used to assist or aid an action that could not be successfully achieved without the use of it is deemed an aid. For instance, a bed can be an aid where one has to lay down on it to be dressed; without the use of the bed, the affected person is unable to be dressed/ get dressed, so the use of the sink to aid balance and avoid falling would be deemed a necessary aid.

poppy123456

fossoux said:

Any item used to assist or aid an action that could not be successfully achieved without the use of it is deemed an aid. For instance, a bed can be an aid where one has to lay down on it to be dressed; without the use of the bed, the affected person is unable to be dressed/ get dressed, so the use of the sink to aid balance and avoid falling would be deemed a necessary aid.

Something tells me that, that isn't quite correct. I really don't think a bed is classed as an aid but i can't find where i read this. @ilovecats i'd be very grateful if you could confirm this please? What is and isn't classed as an aid?

fossoux

Hello @ilovecats, thanks for your reply. Although I accept the logic of what you’ve stated, I would have to disagree, at least in part for the following reason: I’m not saying that a bed or sink in its usual use amounts to them being an aid, but when they are used to support the need of a disabled person that would otherwise not be able to complete an activity without that use, then I should consider them an aid. Yes, I agree that most people that wear tights would prefer to sit down, on a bed or chair etc, to put tights on, but that’s not the same as having no other option than having to sit down to put them on and could easily put them on without sitting down; it’s the necessity that requires the use of the bed to lay down on to get dressed as without it, it would not be possible to complete that task. Laying on the floor to do it is also not an option as it may be impossible to get down onto the floor and also the same difficulty to get back up
off it.

poppy123456

@ilovecats thank you for confirming that! That's exactly what i thought but needed confirmation. Much appreciated.

@fossoux i completely understand what you're saying but unfortunately for PIP it doesn't work like that. All of which is explained here in this link, under aids and appliances. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

fossoux

Thank you @poppy123456 and @ilovecats.

The DWP guidance then is that usual living items used for day-to-day purposes cannot be regarded as aids for the PIP process. I must say that that defies any form of necessity in my view and certainly needs scrutiny. I could never get dressed without having to lay on my bed as my carer cannot lift me to put my trousers on. It’s a struggle for my career to pull them up even when I’m laying down and I would argue that without the bed, I could not get dressed. My apologies to you both if I seemed argumentative; that wasn’t my intention and just wanted to express that despite the PIP guidance, I still consider my bed an aid. Hope that makes sense.

cristobal

twonker said:

But would assessors see through a claimant where no claim for a particular difficulty exists, where it had not been mentioned on the claim form but that the assessor saw that difficulty at the assessment? Does it work both ways in the way that the assessor should be looking for the missing claims that should have been made?

If they should be doing that then my assessor failed miserably to spot many issues that I had not made reference to as I made a complete hash of the claim form.

@twonker - surprisingly I scored points in two areas where I'd put "not applicable" on my application.

One was finding your way about, which I've never understood and still don't.
The other was taking nutrition - the assessor listened to my explanation of why I didn't have a problem and obviously saw something that I didn't......

twonker

fossoux said:

Thank you @poppy123456 and @ilovecats.

The DWP guidance then is that usual living items used for day-to-day purposes cannot be regarded as aids for the PIP process. I must say that that defies any form of necessity in my view and certainly needs scrutiny. I could never get dressed without having to lay on my bed as my carer cannot lift me to put my trousers on. It’s a struggle for my career to pull them up even when I’m laying down and I would argue that without the bed, I could not get dressed. My apologies to you both if I seemed argumentative; that wasn’t my intention and just wanted to express that despite the PIP guidance, I still consider my bed an aid. Hope that makes sense.

And after reading to this point, I would say that my bathroom sink is an aid to me even though the DWP disagree.
Without it I would not be able to clean myself properly or even get back up off the toilet..
This highlights exactly how flummoxed, tired and depressed I became when trying to make sense of the claim form. I wonder if the DWP actually realise how confusing the form is and the notes that come with it didn't help.

As I said, I gave up and sent it back with more blank boxes than completed ones. The assessor that I had certainly didn't help me in trying to find the missing points!

mdam

Hi fossoux.
It sounded like you needed help with the pip form. The form is difficult and takes ages to fill in. I was lucky to have family to help me .If you have no family I am sure cab would help. Were you successful in getting pip or did you have to appeal.

fossoux

@twonker

I completely agree. I consider my bed to be safe and reliable and do not think that there is a safer, more reliable option to be had that could offer the assistance that I need when getting dressed.

I very much understand your frustrations but it’s probably not a good idea to leave the form with blanks as then you would be relying on the assessor making up their own decision on that point, although explanation at assessment would probably go in your favour. However, not everyone is able to express clearly their needs and how certain aids assist so it’s always best to try to complete the form as best you can, albeit a mountainous feat in itself. There are some assessors that are very good and those that are not and you don’t know which you’ll have until you have your f2f assessment. I wish you well.

mdam

Sorry above post should be for twonker

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