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Medical assessment

kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
edited April 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hello i have to go for a medical assessment for PIP in the morning does anyone know what questions they will ask or what it entails please?

Thanks kim

Replies

  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    It all depends on you disability. But my advise is think about you answer before you give it. Think about why they are asking that particular question. Like, " do you have a dog ? " who walks it ? " " Do you drive ? "  They tell you, it isn't to catch you out, it is, be mindful. Take a witness and get the witness to write everything down. You're not allowed to record without prior notice. But you can take notes. Best of luck.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,297 Disability Gamechanger
    @kim7171, hello and welcome, firstly be warned there are CCTV cameras outside and in and around the assessment center it not the assessment room. So if you are seen to walk into the center ok, fine and dandy and have submitted in your form-you are unable to walk far this could and can be noted. On arrival you will have to book in and show some forms of identification. Then you wait in the waiting area till the assessor calls you. The assessor will know the distances from the nearest car park, bus stop and rail station if the center is within walking distance. You will be asked how you arrived at the center and by what means of transport. The answers you wrote in your application form will have to be justified and the assessor will question you as to get the best suitable answer that fits your conditions, disability in relationship to the PIP descriptors. Your appearance will be noted and recorded and the assessor will be forming an opinion of your mental, memory and other observations during the assessment that you will be unaware of until you request a copy of your assessment report about a week after your assessment. Good luck and keep the community updated.
  • zakbloodzakblood Member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    agree with everyone above, and watch out for loaded questions, how can you do, and then numbers, if none apply, think before answering and say none of those fit, it various on day to day etc, good luck
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    I got quite a lot of questions about driving which I thought quite strange as driving is nothing to do with PIP. 

    Fairly obviously the idea is that if you drive then an assessor will make assumptions about your ability to sit down for a certain period, coordination, grip etc. I don't personally agree with this, as my assessor made completely unreasonable assumptions, but I imagine it's designed to catch out anyone who's on the fiddle who might have answers ready for more obvious direct questions.

    I was also asked about pets, and hobbies.

    My advice would be to be totally honest but think for a few seconds before answering just in case your answer might be misunderstood...

  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    cristobal said:
    My advice would be to be totally honest but think for a few seconds before answering just in case your answer might be misunderstood...

    As you say, always be honest. You should not need to think for a few seconds before answering. how can the truth be misunderstood? And more to the point and if by thinking about your answer you will still give the same answer. Hesitation could be seen as deception, trying to think of an answer that you could get away with.

    Driving most certainly has a direct connection to many physical and mental processes. 
    Having a pet animal may well suggest that you can look after it but you claim that you can't look after yourself.

  • zakbloodzakblood Member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    assessments shouldn't be so complicated, most are already stressed enough out to be thinking so deep, as i know i am, and fall for the same traps every time, talk too much and have so little written down of what i did or didn't say, advice is great before hand, but if like me, once there panic sets in and your not in a physical and or mental place your comfortable with, answers and replies don't always tally up to what's been written on forms when your in your own house and happier surrounding, life just not this simple, when loaded questions are given, and wrong answers are gotten, they do it for a living, we do it so we survive
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @twonker - I'm reluctant to get into a debate about "the assessor lied" variety because, as we all know, the vast majority of assessments are carried out perfectly properly...my assessment wasn't one of these..

     "How can the truth be misunderstood"...only if you want to misunderstand

    I was asked about my hobbies, one of which involves a small amount of walking. This apparently was evidence that I can walk up to 200m, despite the fact that I said that I found it a lot more difficult and I couldn't remember the last time I had been to my club to carry out said hobby as it was so long ago.

    Driving a car was also 'evidence' that I can walk up to 200 metres - apparently because I got out the car and walk to the kiosk to pay for fuel - which I don't (and it would have to be a pretty big filling station)

    There are lots of others that I won't bore you with.

    As the saying goes "tell the truth, and then you don't have to sort your story out!!"
  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 3,816 Disability Gamechanger
    Its human nature to be positive about ones self, try to avoid that and tell it how it is.
    my advice is given freely and is correct to the best of my knowledge.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    woodbine said:
    Its human nature to be positive about ones self, try to avoid that and tell it how it is.
    Good advice and something that I can agree with.
    However you do sound a lot like the many Counsellors that have tried to help me over the past 20 odd years. 
    They all wanted me to 'bare my soul' at the expense of their satisfaction and my utter distress. They might have been able to write up their notes thinking a good job done whilst I had to go home in a suicidal state thinking that I was worthless.
    People prefer to keep those thoughts and feelings well hidden for those reasons hence what you see is not always what you are. That's why it is human nature, it's survival.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    twonker said:
    cristobal said:
    My advice would be to be totally honest but think for a few seconds before answering just in case your answer might be misunderstood...

    As you say, always be honest. You should not need to think for a few seconds before answering. how can the truth be misunderstood? And more to the point and if by thinking about your answer you will still give the same answer. Hesitation could be seen as deception, trying to think of an answer that you could get away with.

    Driving most certainly has a direct connection to many physical and mental processes. 
    Having a pet animal may well suggest that you can look after it but you claim that you can't look after yourself.

    Anyone who doesn't think about their answer is a fool. This can and does get used in a Court, if it goes that far. As for the Driving question, their answer to that is, you are coordinated and can follow a route. So your metal capacity is capable of conducting multi tasks. Pray tell what has that got to do with osteoarthritis ?

    There are quite a few disabled drivers out there who manage quite well. I was marked down because I drive an Automatic car. To me, this is just another excuse to deliberately mark you down. I can't see how you can defend a very flawed and corrupt system, one that makes massive profits. I don't think anyone was suggesting not telling the truth. But that works both ways, they are not honest or truthful.   
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Thank you everyone for your input.  I am absaloutly scared to death now about tomorrow.  I live alone and have a mobility car. I also have 2 small dogs which my family walk and take out for me. I have had the dogs before my children moved out and now its just me and them. With out them i wouldnt want to get out of bed in the morning as i feel whats the point..

    Also as i live alone are they going to ask about shopping as i do get it delivered  but if i only need bread and milk etc there is a co op on the road so will they ask if i have to walk to the door? Whats the point of having the freedom and independance of a mobility car if you are losing points by walking to and from your car.  
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member



    Anyone who doesn't think about their answer is a fool. This can and does get used in a Court, if it goes that far. As for the Driving question, their answer to that is, you are coordinated and can follow a route. So your metal capacity is capable of conducting multi tasks. Pray tell what has that got to do with osteoarthritis ?

    There are quite a few disabled drivers out there who manage quite well. I was marked down because I drive an Automatic car. To me, this is just another excuse to deliberately mark you down. I can't see how you can defend a very flawed and corrupt system, one that makes massive profits. I don't think anyone was suggesting not telling the truth. But that works both ways, they are not honest or truthful.   
    In which case I am a complete fool! If someone was to ask you if you have friends that you meet up with how would you answer? You either do or you don't. It doesn't matter how many exceptions or conditions you would put to it, it still remains a yes no answer.

    Unfortunately for those people that have driven for years they may not be fully aware of how the body reacts to driving. Apart from the leg (brake & accelerator) movement, the movement of arms, wrists and fingers (steering wheel and other controls) you have to take on board the mental issues involved (memory, anticipation, adaption etc)

    In fact taking all of the body and mental functions together especially on the roads today you are only 1 second away from a major accident if your body cannot cope or it lets you down.

    The system is not in question. Quite possibly that argument would always be there no matter what the system is. I remember the same arguments being voiced when DLA came into play some 27 years ago!

  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    twonker said:
    cristobal said:
    My advice would be to be totally honest but think for a few seconds before answering just in case your answer might be misunderstood...

    As you say, always be honest. You should not need to think for a few seconds before answering. how can the truth be misunderstood? And more to the point and if by thinking about your answer you will still give the same answer. Hesitation could be seen as deception, trying to think of an answer that you could get away with.

    Driving most certainly has a direct connection to many physical and mental processes. 
    Having a pet animal may well suggest that you can look after it but you claim that you can't look after yourself.

    Anyone who doesn't think about their answer is a fool. This can and does get used in a Court, if it goes that far. As for the Driving question, their answer to that is, you are coordinated and can follow a route. So your metal capacity is capable of conducting multi tasks. Pray tell what has that got to do with osteoarthritis ?

    There are quite a few disabled drivers out there who manage quite well. I was marked down because I drive an Automatic car. To me, this is just another excuse to deliberately mark you down. I can't see how you can defend a very flawed and corrupt system, one that makes massive profits. I don't think anyone was suggesting not telling the truth. But that works both ways, they are not honest or truthful.   
    Cognitive ability aside, if you can drive an unadapted car, even an automatic then a certain level of grip, power, dexterity and power can be assumed. Getting in an out of a car also requires a certain level of physical ability.
    And that's exactly why I drive an Automatic 4x4. I don't have to bend down to get in. I just slide across the seat. I don't have to use my knees at, all brakes are assisted now. It's a misnomer and wrong to assume you can't drive, even with osteoarthritis. Unless, it's in your hands. That's the problem, Assumptions.  
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    twonker said:



    Anyone who doesn't think about their answer is a fool. This can and does get used in a Court, if it goes that far. As for the Driving question, their answer to that is, you are coordinated and can follow a route. So your metal capacity is capable of conducting multi tasks. Pray tell what has that got to do with osteoarthritis ?

    There are quite a few disabled drivers out there who manage quite well. I was marked down because I drive an Automatic car. To me, this is just another excuse to deliberately mark you down. I can't see how you can defend a very flawed and corrupt system, one that makes massive profits. I don't think anyone was suggesting not telling the truth. But that works both ways, they are not honest or truthful.   
    In which case I am a complete fool! If someone was to ask you if you have friends that you meet up with how would you answer? You either do or you don't. It doesn't matter how many exceptions or conditions you would put to it, it still remains a yes no answer.

    Unfortunately for those people that have driven for years they may not be fully aware of how the body reacts to driving. Apart from the leg (brake & accelerator) movement, the movement of arms, wrists and fingers (steering wheel and other controls) you have to take on board the mental issues involved (memory, anticipation, adaption etc)

    In fact taking all of the body and mental functions together especially on the roads today you are only 1 second away from a major accident if your body cannot cope or it lets you down.

    The system is not in question. Quite possibly that argument would always be there no matter what the system is. I remember the same arguments being voiced when DLA came into play some 27 years ago!

    Well I didn't want to point the finger, but since you mention it lol It's not a yes or no answer. There are many answers to it. I have no friends, I don't meet them they come to me, I contact them by phone. Three very different answers to the same question and not just yes or no. I personally only have one friend, he lives next door to me.

    I have to disagree, this system is being FORCED upon us is flawed and not fit for purpose. It is a deliberate attempt by this government to rid itself of people with disabilities and force them into work no matter what their disabilities. Cameron, when PM said, " if you can push a pencil you can work ". He meant every word of it. Bedroom tax, UC all to make sure they pay you less. But has only saved 2% over all. But, that isn't taking into account how much they pay these assessment for profit companies. The extra staff they have to pay the DWP and the Courts system. All to reduce your income, but their income is £80k a year to tell you how you can afford to live off £53 a week

    I bow to your superior knowledge of DLA, I have only just been assessed disabled and am new to this system. However, I cannot do physical work any more and use my computer to make a living, which was used against me at my assessment. That said, my friend next door is totally disabled from birth, wheelchair bound and this system, you fully support, wanted to send him to work and had to attend the Job Centre for interview. His mother who had a two bedroom bungalow had to give it up, because of the bedroom tax and is worse off.

    Is there anyone on here who has gone on to PIP UC or AA who is better off ? I doubt it. Our local Con-serative Politician, refused to acknowledge we have food and clothing banks, although we have at least three. So please don't tell me this is a fair and just system. It is a deliberate attack on the poor and disabled.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger


    Is there anyone on here who has gone on to PIP UC or AA who is better off ? I doubt it.
    PIP and AA are totally different to UC. AA is for those over the age of 65, is similar to DLA/PIP but doesn't have a mobility part. UC is a working age means tested benefit.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:
    twonker said:
    cristobal said:
    My advice would be to be totally honest but think for a few seconds before answering just in case your answer might be misunderstood...

    As you say, always be honest. You should not need to think for a few seconds before answering. how can the truth be misunderstood? And more to the point and if by thinking about your answer you will still give the same answer. Hesitation could be seen as deception, trying to think of an answer that you could get away with.

    Driving most certainly has a direct connection to many physical and mental processes. 
    Having a pet animal may well suggest that you can look after it but you claim that you can't look after yourself.

    Anyone who doesn't think about their answer is a fool. This can and does get used in a Court, if it goes that far. As for the Driving question, their answer to that is, you are coordinated and can follow a route. So your metal capacity is capable of conducting multi tasks. Pray tell what has that got to do with osteoarthritis ?

    There are quite a few disabled drivers out there who manage quite well. I was marked down because I drive an Automatic car. To me, this is just another excuse to deliberately mark you down. I can't see how you can defend a very flawed and corrupt system, one that makes massive profits. I don't think anyone was suggesting not telling the truth. But that works both ways, they are not honest or truthful.   
    Cognitive ability aside, if you can drive an unadapted car, even an automatic then a certain level of grip, power, dexterity and power can be assumed. Getting in an out of a car also requires a certain level of physical ability.
    And that's exactly why I drive an Automatic 4x4. I don't have to bend down to get in. I just slide across the seat. I don't have to use my knees at, all brakes are assisted now. It's a misnomer and wrong to assume you can't drive, even with osteoarthritis. Unless, it's in your hands. That's the problem, Assumptions.  
    So you don’t have to move your right foot from the accelerator to brake? You don’t have to twist the steering wheel, turn behind you to look at the blind spot. So you just slide in, how do your legs get off the floor and intot the car, how do you turn in your seat to look in the mirrors. These are all things that every driver of an unadapted automatic car has to do.

    I’m not saying driving a car automatically means you can walk, it does however lend itself to a certain level of ability when cooking washing and dressing. 

    I have scored many people 1-20m (enhanced) for walking even if they drive. Normally for breathing related conditions but it is not just limited to that. Assessors do understand that many disabled people’s lifeline is their car however to score enhanced and therefore keep the car means a person has to be severely restricted. 20m is such a short distance to not be able to walk, therefore the level of disability is expected to be high to award it.
    Hmm, that's weird, my assessor told me she doesn't make the decisions on how many points I get and yet you do. Are you an assessor then ? As I said, this is the problem, Assumptions. I have many conditions, breathing related is one of them. You've assumed quite a lot there. How does an assessor understand in an forty to sixty minute assessment and out trump Dr's and Surgeons as in my case ?
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    edited April 2019
    I'm sorry that you cannot agree. You reply to my posting with three and a bit lines. The rest of your post is another three paragraphs in length. I didn't ask for a political statement about the rights and wrongs of the system. Personally I think the system is about as fair as they can make it.
    So other than having no friends you would either contact them by telephone or they would come to see you.
    Ignoring the no friends scenario, you would be able to communicate & make yourself understood, Yes?
    As for the political tripe I am not getting involved - you have your opinion I have mine.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    It's clear we are not going to agree. So lets agree that at least. It's not my opinion it's facts. Fact it is not just a yes and no answer, as you suggest, with a bit of thought there are more answers. Fact, it can be used in Court. Everything I have said is fact, prove me wrong. I only deal in facts, not assumptions or misguided people who make it up as they go along, just facts.   
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering


    Is there anyone on here who has gone on to PIP UC or AA who is better off ? I doubt it.
    PIP and AA are totally different to UC. AA is for those over the age of 65, is similar to DLA/PIP but doesn't have a mobility part. UC is a working age means tested benefit.
    I was asking a general question, as they are all entitlements. And operated by the DWP .
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @Threesticks - just a thought...would it be helpful to post your question about PIP/UC etc as a separate topic? 
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    edited April 2019
    cristobal said:
    @Threesticks - just a thought...would it be helpful to post your question about PIP/UC etc as a separate topic? 
    Yes, I'm sorry, I got a tad off topic here. Thanks for kicking my butt ;)  and getting me back on track.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:
    ilovecats said:
    twonker said:
    cristobal said:
    My advice would be to be totally honest but think for a few seconds before answering just in case your answer might be misunderstood...

    As you say, always be honest. You should not need to think for a few seconds before answering. how can the truth be misunderstood? And more to the point and if by thinking about your answer you will still give the same answer. Hesitation could be seen as deception, trying to think of an answer that you could get away with.

    Driving most certainly has a direct connection to many physical and mental processes. 
    Having a pet animal may well suggest that you can look after it but you claim that you can't look after yourself.

    Anyone who doesn't think about their answer is a fool. This can and does get used in a Court, if it goes that far. As for the Driving question, their answer to that is, you are coordinated and can follow a route. So your metal capacity is capable of conducting multi tasks. Pray tell what has that got to do with osteoarthritis ?

    There are quite a few disabled drivers out there who manage quite well. I was marked down because I drive an Automatic car. To me, this is just another excuse to deliberately mark you down. I can't see how you can defend a very flawed and corrupt system, one that makes massive profits. I don't think anyone was suggesting not telling the truth. But that works both ways, they are not honest or truthful.   
    Cognitive ability aside, if you can drive an unadapted car, even an automatic then a certain level of grip, power, dexterity and power can be assumed. Getting in an out of a car also requires a certain level of physical ability.
    And that's exactly why I drive an Automatic 4x4. I don't have to bend down to get in. I just slide across the seat. I don't have to use my knees at, all brakes are assisted now. It's a misnomer and wrong to assume you can't drive, even with osteoarthritis. Unless, it's in your hands. That's the problem, Assumptions.  
    So you don’t have to move your right foot from the accelerator to brake? You don’t have to twist the steering wheel, turn behind you to look at the blind spot. So you just slide in, how do your legs get off the floor and intot the car, how do you turn in your seat to look in the mirrors. These are all things that every driver of an unadapted automatic car has to do.

    I’m not saying driving a car automatically means you can walk, it does however lend itself to a certain level of ability when cooking washing and dressing. 

    I have scored many people 1-20m (enhanced) for walking even if they drive. Normally for breathing related conditions but it is not just limited to that. Assessors do understand that many disabled people’s lifeline is their car however to score enhanced and therefore keep the car means a person has to be severely restricted. 20m is such a short distance to not be able to walk, therefore the level of disability is expected to be high to award it.
    Hmm, that's weird, my assessor told me she doesn't make the decisions on how many points I get and yet you do. Are you an assessor then ? As I said, this is the problem, Assumptions. I have many conditions, breathing related is one of them. You've assumed quite a lot there. How does an assessor understand in an forty to sixty minute assessment and out trump Dr's and Surgeons as in my case ?
    I used to be. I’ve been very transparent about that so when I give advice about what assessors look for you can be assured it is sound. I have not assumed anything. It is considered medically probably that someone who can drive as a certain level of physical movements. That is a fact. 

    We don’t make decisions but we recommend descriptors which are associated to a certain amount of points. The case manager doesn’t not have to adhere to what we suggest but it’s a well known fact that the majority of time they do.
    Thank you for clarifying your point. I found many lies were told to me from by the company, the assessor allegedly worked for and from the assessor herself. One of which, she informed me quote " I work for the NHS " that confused me very much. I didn't say anything at the time, I just wanted to leave a quickly as possible, I hated every millisecond of it and it probably comes across. I apologize I don't mean to be rude.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • April2018momApril2018mom Posts: 2,869 Member
    No advice but good luck. The whole assessment process is convoluted and in need of a change. 
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Can i just say about the driving i have a mobility car and my disability is my walking. So does this mean that i will be marked down because i drive?
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    It all depends on you disability. But my advise is think about you answer before you give it. Think about why they are asking that particular question. Like, " do you have a dog ? " who walks it ? " " Do you drive ? "  They tell you, it isn't to catch you out, it is, be mindful. Take a witness and get the witness to write everything down. You're not allowed to record without prior notice. But you can take notes. Best of luck.
    If the answer is yes, that they have a dog or they drive what are they supposed to say no when that would be untrue?
    If someone else walks it then yes is the answer to give. Always tell the truth.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    kim7171 said:
    Can i just say about the driving i have a mobility car and my disability is my walking. So does this mean that i will be marked down because i drive?
    But driving a car could very well in some circumstances show that you do have the use of your legs.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,006 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s a shame people don’t use search function on this site.

    https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/56376/esa-medicals#latest
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Hope your assessment goes well @kim7171
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    It’s a shame people don’t use search function on this site.

    https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/56376/esa-medicals#latest
    I wasn't aware of Scope before my assessment and wasn't a member at that time. I thank you for the link and the information there in. It is most useful and wished I had read it last December, thanks again.
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Hi everyone. Well had my assessment this morning... seamed to go well lady was really  nice..wether that changes with the report i dont know..  i was a wreck  ended up in tears a few times when i was asked how does it affect me emotionally as well physically and i was just compleatly honest and  told the truth which got a bit upsetting. Then at the end i was asked to do a few mobility tests..  put my arms up how far i could turn my head each side can i put my arms behind my back can i lean forward to pick something up even in a sitting position. And lastly can i move my legs out to the side without having to turn my body and stretch my legs out and circulate my feet..  all this was sitting in the chair.. i was asked how long i can stand in a still position before i had to sit or move about.  And that was all of it.. i was asked about my dogs and told her the truth that my family excercise them  but i wouldnt do without them as they are the reason i get up in a morning they are my companions  they help with the lonliness and depression without them i have no reason to get out off bed  and would feel more icalated and house bound and alone they keep me going when i feel the world closing in etc. And that was it all toom just over an hour and was told i would get a decition in abouy 6 weeks..
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    edited April 2019
    I'm pleased it went well for you :) .
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Thank you just hope the report does too.. 
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    Is there any updates, @kim7171
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Still waiting to hear something. Got a letter yesterday saying they have all the info they need so will let me know soon..
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    Well at least you're on the path, so to speak. ;)
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Well just got my PIP letter back and they have taken back my higher rate and put me down to the standard rate.. so now i have lost my mobility car.. what can i do? Does anyone know how i can apeal this? Please
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger

    Have you asked for a copy of the assessment report ?
    The first stage of appeal is to ask for a mandatory reconsideration within 28 days of the date on your award letter. You should do so in writing giving 2-3 examples of what happens when you attempt each descriptor. If you have further relevant evience then you should also submit this now.

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    kim7171 said:
    Well just got my PIP letter back and they have taken back my higher rate and put me down to the standard rate.. so now i have lost my mobility car.. what can i do? Does anyone know how i can apeal this? Please
    Hi,

    If you haven't already got a copy of the assessment report then ring DWP to request it to be sent to you.

    You have 1 month from the date of the decision to request the Mandatory Reconsideration (MR). You should put your request in writing stating where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding 2-3 examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you. You should avoid mentioning any lies that may have been told in the report because they won't be interested in any of those.

    They will look at the whole award again and not just part of it.

    Only 18% of MR decisions change so you'll most likely have to take it to Tribunal.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    I have scored 10 points out of 12 on my mobility walking etc it says that it has been note how bad it is. And also i got 9 points for all the other stuff like cooking etc so i dont understand why it has been put down 
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    I got a copy of points they game me and letter from asser on his findings and how he came to the decition
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Sorry i ment i have the information in with the letter of the points i was given for each and the letter from the man whom decided and how he decided. So i have thatt
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    It's no surprise, that they down graded you. All you can do is send an MR and hope for the best. As I've said, it's about getting disabled people off entitlements, nothing more nothing less. And, some folks on here, support that system, you have to think why, yup. 
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    Hi @kim7171 Sorry to hear that. :/ You have the letter from the Decision-Maker, but do you also have a copy of the Assessor's Report (the PA4)?
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Yes i do have a letter with all the points given. And the letter from the assessor..
    I have been taken down  from the higher rate indefinatly to 2 years on the standard rate.. i cannot believe it...
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    There's no indefinite awards for PIP, 10 years with a light tough review is the longest. Is this a transfer from DLA? Either way, you need to do as i advised in a comment above within 1 month from the date of the decision.

    This link will tell you what's in your area for face to face help and advice. https://advicelocal.uk/



    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    @kim7171 So do you agree with the assessor's report?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Yeah, the same happened to me @kim7171 nothing has changed apart from having a diagnoses for something, I'm no better than I was when they first assessed me but according to the assessor I'm magically cured of MH problems lol. Just waiting for the decision.

    Are you going to do an MR? I'm thinking about it, Welfare Rights have said they'll help when I get the letter.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    No i dont agree with the assessors report and i am going to apeal.. i only habe the letter thay sent me nothing like a PA4...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited June 2019
    Isn't the PA4 the assessors report? Did you ask for a copy of the report over the phone?
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    Don't hold your breath. All an MR is, a decision maker, will take another look at it. In my case, and many others, it normally doesn't change the assessors decision. So then you go for the tribunal and wait another year or so, before you go to the appeal (begging) court stage. If that goes against you, you can take it to an upper court. That's a rough time line for you. In the meantime you have to struggle along best you can. Led by some who don't know what they are talking about and others who deliberately mislead you.

    The only folks benefiting out of all this, is DWP and our caring Gov, who save money (which is their agenda)they hope you die whilst waiting, which will be nearly two years, from the start of the whole process. The Courts and Drs And, if you haven't sussed it yet, it's a scam. Scope don't do to badly out of it either, check out their profit from past years. That said, there are many good people on here who do truly want to help. It's a minefield and one you can well do without when you're already I'll. Don't you just love those caring helping humans :D
    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    kim7171 said:
    No i dont agree with the assessors report and i am going to apeal.. i only habe the letter thay sent me nothing like a PA4...
    In a previous comment you said you have the assessors report. If it is this then it will say PA4 on the front.

    You can't appeal without going through the MR process first. Don't expect the decision to change at this point because only around 18% of them do. Most have to take it to Tribunal and appearing in person will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour.

    Was this a transfer from DLA?
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    You seem like my type of person @Threesticks lol. The problem is, we have to do the MR's to get the the tribunal :( 


  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Yes i think so because i have a mobility vehicle which now they are taking back because i am no longer on the higher rate... 
  • KG100KG100 Member Posts: 178 Pioneering
    Can you keep your car untill the appeal ?
    I think I've read about this being possible. 
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    It all depends on you disability. But my advise is think about you answer before you give it. Think about why they are asking that particular question. Like, " do you have a dog ? " who walks it ? " " Do you drive ? "  They tell you, it isn't to catch you out, it is, be mindful. Take a witness and get the witness to write everything down. You're not allowed to record without prior notice. But you can take notes. Best of luck.
    It may well be a catch but you still are required to tell the truth.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    KG100 said:
    Can you keep your car untill the appeal ?
    I think I've read about this being possible. 
    This is only possible when transferring from DLA to PIP if a claimant has been a customer of motability since before the end of 2013. If this applies then motability will be in contact with the customer to discuss their options. I will say though that it may not be as straight forward as it seems.

    I have asked @kim7171 a number of times throughout this thread if they are transferring from DLA and there's been no answer to my question.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Yes i have answered each time that  that yes it if from DLA to PIP
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    I have 1 month to apeal and i can keep the car for 8 weeks only i have asked this and if the apeal  takes longer i still have to give the car back... if my apeal is successful and i am put back on higher rate for atleast  3 years then i would have to go through starting another contract for a vehicle
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    I have also been told that if i except the decsion they will give me £2000 towards buying another car... also that if i apeal i could lose what i already have... well to me that feels like bribary  and intimidation...  in other word except it and take the money and go away...
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    DLA and PIP are different and they have different criteria. PIP is about how your conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activities based on the PIP descriptors.

    The criteria for high mobility DLA was different to what PIP is.

    No one can tell you on an internet forum whether you will rick losing everything you already have if you request the MR. For this you'll need to get face to face advice from an agency near you. When requesting the MR/Tribunal they will look at the whole award again and not just part of it.

    Only 18% of MR decisions change so you'll most likely have to take it to Tribunal. Yes, it's a very long process and you could be waiting in excess of 1 year for a hearing date.

    If you decide to to request the MR/Tribunal and you're awarded Enhanced mobility you need at least a 12 month award to be able to qualify for a motability vehicle, you don't need a 3 year award.

    This link is very useful to read and it will give you more knowledge of the PIP descriptors and what they mean.



    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 2019
    @kim7171 - I don't think that it's intimidation - but it's true that in any appeal process you may end up worse off.

    I think what you need to do is seek face to face advice as to the strength of your case in order that you can make an informed opinion, balancing the potential upside with the possible downside...

    The offer of £2000k to buy a car sounds very attractive to me....



  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Speaking the obvious, you need to look at the  costs of insurance, servicing, breakdown cover, road fund licence as well as the purchase price of a vehicle.
    If you win your appeal and go with a new shiney vehicle, it could be taken away at your next reveiw and the whole proces starts again
    If you do buy a car then it cannot be taken away from you. You may decide to use some kind of finance to purchase a newer vehicle but would need to keep up the repayments
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,006 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 2019
    I used to be. I’ve been very transparent about that so when I give advice about what assessors look for you can be assured it is sound. I have not assumed anything. It is considered medically probably that someone who can drive as a certain level of physical movements. That is a fact. We don’t make decisions but we recommend descriptors which are associated to a certain amount of points. The case manager doesn’t not have to adhere to what we suggest but it’s a well known fact that the majority of time they do.
    I find myself troubled by the contents of this thread and the above post in particular. How can it be that a thread can be more than 60 posts deep at the time of posting and yet not one person points out that the PIP decision making process does not include a medical of any sort! That’s not exactly helping the OP or subsequent posters. It is a functional assessment and cannot involve any medical assessment at all without explicit consent being given at the stage when such an assessment is requested. That consent cannot be proven unless in writing but the only written consent HCPs gather is at the start and not during. See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-1-the-assessment-process#face-to-face-consultation para 1.6.37.

    That an alleged ex HCP doesn’t even correct this is perhaps somewhat symptomatic of the very issues with the HCP element of the process many people become distressed by. [removed by moderator]

    Subsequent advice to the original poster is to a certain degree scare-mongering. There are no “trick questions. There are closed questions to which only “yes” or “no” answers appear to be the option when an accurate answer needs to address reliability. “Yes I can, but not safely, repeatedly, to a reasonable standard or in a reasonable time” for example. That’s very different and also a breach of the guidance at 1.6.8 above.

    It is equally wrong to imply CCTV comes into play or that HCPs know the distances to nearby landmarks. This is likely not true. There are many cases suggesting most do little more than guess and those figures become gospel until challenged. There have been cases where HCPs estimates on the width of a road crossed to a centre was more than 50% out. Think about that for a second. An estimate of the width of a standard 2 lane road and some HCPs can’t even get that right. There have been cases where HCPs have reported claimants walking the length of an internal corridor to the meeting room and they’ve got that wrong too.

    The quote above “when I give advice about what assessors look for you can be assured it is sound” from @ilovecats is one I would frankly treat with a pinch of salt. I am being circumspect when I say that. They are, at minimum, not up to speed with current practice and by their own admission nor could they be! [removed by moderator]

    The quote below is entirely symptomatic of exactly where HCPs consistently get assessments wrong and which get, frankly, ripped to pieces in tribunals. 
    Cognitive ability aside, if you can drive an unadapted car, even an automatic then a certain level of grip, power, dexterity and power can be assumed. Getting in an out of a car also requires a certain level of physical ability.
    Lovely example here of how disconnected ESA and driving are.

    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14378

    Here’s an ever nicer one directly relating to PIP.

    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/13377/

    I especially like the idea that you can actually fail a driving test if you grip a steering wheel. If you’re driving correctly then you’re not gripping the steering wheel in any kind of way that could equate for example to gripping a fork or fastening a button. That’s how far off HCPs are. Driving tells you next to nothing about grip, dexterity or power and most tribunals will accept that without hesitation when presented with the kinds of arguments posited in the threads listed above. 




  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    Ilovecats, your rebuttal?

  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger

    @mikehughescq - Once the DWP have set their ‘guidelines’ to interviewing are Capita/ATOS obliged to train their staff to follow them? Do they have any legal basis?

    The reason I ask is that my assessment didn’t seem follow the guidelines at all (I recorded it so I know this for certain)  There were lots of problems but the main ones were:-

    Consistently using ‘closed’ questions without then clarifying my answer :-

    “Do you do the washing and hang it out?” (the interview took place in my kitchen at home)

    “No”

    [The interviewer still has no idea whether I can and choose not to, whether my wife does it, or whether I’m physically incapable]

    “How do you go to the toilet?”

    “I’m sorry I don’t understand what you mean, how many ways are there?”

    “Well do you just sit down, and then stand up?”

    “Yes”

    [“Yes’ seemed to suit the interviewer who moved on without asking me about the difficulties that I had and how I stopped myself falling]

    There were dozens of examples of this, incorrect assumptions, and leading questions. I said at varying stages that I get very tired and have to lie down - ‘a lot of the time’,’most of the time’, ‘nearly every day’ and this was summarised by the assessor ‘2-3 days per week then?’(anticipating, I think, that I might agree)

    The conclusion I came to was:-

    The interviewer wanted a particular answer and once they had it they moved quickly on without allowing you to explain (like a barrister in Kavanagh QC who sits down and says ‘no more questions’ M’lud)

    The interviewee needs to be confident and stick to their guns when they are being misquoted or their answer is being summarised incorrectly. Not everyone is able to do this - for a variety of reasons such as vulnerability, lack of confidence or part of their medical condition.

    On a lighter note the assessor time me when I went to the toilet and concluded that I could walk at 50m/ sec - Usain Bolt would be proud!!!

  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    I agree with you  there that is exactly how mine went and just reading what has been put and the marks is either yes or no or black and white and each person is  not like that..  on the question washing and bathing it says you need assistance from another person to be able to get in and out of a bath or shower.. they have marked a 3 because my sister washes my hair twice a week even though i said i cant have a bath or shower because even with help i cant life my legs to get in or out so i sit in a chair in front of sick to wash i cant even wash my back or private part properly this way..  and in the coments she says yes i get help that is it... even after i told and showed her evidance that i have had newmerious  assesments by the ocupational health and was deamed that i was  not safe so went to grants and was awarded full grant to have my bathroom fully adapted to help me i told her all this and had the paper work to prove it she just nodded and went on to next question with out putting amything i had said down..
    All my questions were like that.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    cristobal said:

    @mikehughescq

    The conclusion I came to was:-

    The interviewee needs to be confident and stick to their guns when they are being misquoted or their answer is being summarised incorrectly. Not everyone is able to do this - for a variety of reasons such as vulnerability, lack of confidence or part of their medical condition.

    Whilst I agree entirely with you as that is the way to defeat these ridiculous assessment reports, I don't understand how you would know at the time of the assessment if you were going to be misquoted or be summarised incorrectly.

    Yes it would be fine if during the course of the assessment that the assessor read back to the claimant exactly what had been recorded. The claimant would then have the opportunity of clarifying the content. 

    But that will never happen as the claimant would end up in total control of the assessment process and what would appear in the report. Besides which it is possible that an argument could erupt if the assessor refused to change what had been recorded.

    At the end of the day people must accept that without these changes that the whole system is weighted in favour of government policy.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Bottom line is there gonna do whatever they want... we are not people to them we are just a bottom line.. and its the people and our quality of life that is suffering...
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger

    @twonker - maybe I wasn't clear?

    I don't mean that I said 'X' and the assessor typed 'y' although that did happen but there's no way you would know about that as you say. What I mean is when I say "I get very tired most days which stops me doing x" and "there hasn't been a day recently when I haven't been too tired" etc, and the assessor listens, and then before typing says "So you get tired a couple of days per week?" 

    Fairly obviously neither of the above can be summarised as "a couple of days per week" 

    You might also say that this could be an honest mistake and you would be right to ask that but it isn't and here's how I know. Without any doubt.

    I recorded the interview as I say. Prior to asking for MR I made a transcript and checked this against the copy of the assessment that the DWP sent, making a conscious effort to be totally objective about the mistakes, things that I never actually said (i.e. had been made up by the assessor) and leading questions/ incorrect summarising that I challenged at the time.

    I don’t remember the exact figures now as this was several months ago but it was something like :-

    Errors that would support not getting PIP- 20 (probably more)

    Errors that didn’t seem of any consequence - 10-12

    Errors that support I would get PIP - 0

    So it’s riddled with errors but not one ‘counts for me’ 

    Honest mistakes? Make your own mind up.

  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    Yes i agree with you its all stacked against you because everyone is different and have different needs at different times.  I have constant pain that worsen though out the day or the more i try to walk and some days i can barely walk at all.. i cannot say either i have this many days per week when its like this or that  because each day is diferent.  So this point systerm is more robotic so its not realistic the only people it helps is the goverment and there bottom line
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    At the end of the day i really do believe it all comes down to the fact england is it so much debt and trouble there are doing everything they can to save money and its the little people that are suffering because of it...
  • ThreesticksThreesticks Member Posts: 128 Pioneering
    If, you believe that @kim7171 you will believe anything. We give away ( our .Gov ) £250 million every year to India. Whilst India have said stop sending it, we don't need it. The Politicos, constantly give themselves pay rise after pay rise. A basic Monster of parliament, MP gets £80 k a year now. The average working bloke gets £23k and managers around £30k ish. We are the 5th richest Country in the World. And, just earned a place as one of the most corrupt Countries in the World, when it comes to dodgy deals. And, just spit in our faces, cut the mental health budget by £65 mil. Who are they I hear you cry ? Disabled folk, who because of this Governments policies are dying.




    If you fight, you won't always win. But if you don't fight you will always always lose.
  • kim7171kim7171 Member Posts: 23 Connected
    No i wont believe anything and theres no cause to be rude... and like i said this country is in trouble because of a lot of things... 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Hey @kim7171 I just wanted to wish you good luck with your MR, I'm still waiting for my decision letter before I can do anything.

    Yesterday my son was looking through the report and found more inaccuracies, the assessor even contradicts himself.

    Does anyone know what the date at the bottom of the report pages means, please?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger


    Does anyone know what the date at the bottom of the report pages means, please?
    Date? All i have on the bottom of all my reports (4) are NI number, surname and page number.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited June 2019
    Yeah, on both my previous and current reports there's a date on the bottom left of each page.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Strange that because it's my NI number on the left hand side of my pages. I have no idea what that could be.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    Ok, thanks for trying to help Poppy.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,954

    Scope community team

    Hi @kim7171, I hope you don't mind but I'm closing this thread, it has gotten very long and unfortunately off-topic with some members choosing to be inflammatory. 

    Best of luck with your MR. Please don't hesitate to make a new thread if you need some help with this and be sure to let us know how you get on. 

    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

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