PIP, DLA and AA
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Applied for PIP for the second time

ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
edited April 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
I suffer anxiety, depression and panic disorder and I was getting DLA (low mobility and low care component) until March 2018.

When DLA finished I was sent a claim form to apply for PIP from DWP and a while after I sent the form back I had to attend a face to face assessment which I failed because the assessor wrote nothing but lies about me. Unfortunately, this mean’t that I had to appeal against the DWP’s decision.

I got myself a welfare rights officer who told me I have a good chance in winning the appeal at the tribunal. Unfortunately, this wasn’t the case as I failed my appeal at the tribunal miserably.

The panel especially the judge weren’t very nice and I felt like I was at an interrogation which made me feel totally stressed out and increased my anxiety and panic to the point that I couldn’t think or explain myself properly to the panel which resulted in the judge basing his final decision not to award me PIP by looking at irrelevant medical information on my medical records. I should also mention that the appeal was audio recorded by the tribunal.

I then proceeded a request for a statement of reason and a copy of the audio recording. However the tribunal service only sent the statement of reason minus the audio recording. My welfare rights officer demanded the copy of the recording but was told that it got lost. A few weeks later my welfare rights officer asked again only to be told a different story that the recording malfunctioned in the dictaphone.

This has got me thinking that they are trying to cover their backs by lying that the recording no longer exists because it contradicts with the lies they wrote in the statement of reason.

Anyway, I have had to reapply for PIP and since then I have had my face to face assessment but still still waiting on the outcome of that. What worries me is that I got the same assessor who failed me the last time. Things have changed since the first time I got the assessor as I am getting help from a support worker and seeking therapy as an alternative to medication. However I have this feeling I will fail getting on PIP again.

Replies

  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    edited April 2019
    Please advise.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    If you live in the UK you can request a copy of the assessment report to be sent to you, this will give you some idea what the decision is likely to be because they mostly go with the report.

    When you re-applied did you send the same evidence as the first time or different evidence?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    Thanks for the reply.

    When I reapplied I mentioned in the application form and at the assessment that I am seeing a support worker now and attending therapy which I wasn’t doing the first time I applied for PIP last year.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    All you can do is request a copy of the assessment report, as advised. If you're not happy with the decision then it's MR then Tribunal again.

    Did you send evidence that supports how your conditions affect you? Just mentioning the therapy and support worker may not be enough.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    There was no letter from my support worker or therapist sent with the application form. However, my support worker attended the assessment with me and the PIP assessor was aware that my support worker was with me.

    I am dreading another tribunal because the last one was a complete nightmare and made my mental health worse. I nearly ended up in hospital because of it.

    I was wondering if it is possible to appeal without attending the tribunal? I was absolutely disgusted by the tribunal and the missing audio recording is suspicious.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Are you saying you didn't send any evidence to support your claim?

    Yes, you can request a paper hearing for the Tribunal but the chances of success are around 8%.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    edited April 2019
    Are you saying you didn't send any evidence to support your claim?

    Yes, you can request a paper hearing for the Tribunal but the chances of success are around 8%.
    If you mean evidence as in a letter from my GP, support worker and therapist then no I didn’t sent in any letter from my GP, support worker or therapist to support my claim. I just wrote how my disability affects my day to day living and ticked the relevant boxes in the application.

    However, I gave contact information of my GP and support worker on the application in case the DWP needed to contact them for evidence.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes, that's exactly what i meant. Don't expect them to contact anyone because they very rarely do this. The onus is on you to make sure you send evidence to support your claim because it's your responsibility to prove you qualify, not theirs.

    Did you send any evidence at all for your last claim? Did you send any evidence to the Tribunal? :o
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    edited April 2019
    I didn’t send any evidence for my last claim either. However, when I appealed my welfare rights officer sent the tribunal my medical records, GP’s records and a letter from my psychologist.

    However, the medical evidence was outdated because those records only ran from when I was a child up to 2016. I was applying for PIP for the period 2018.

    However, because I was so nervous and couldn’t explain myself well because of the terror the tribunal put me through they decided to base their decision on irrelevant info in my psychologists report which was outdated as my symptoms have since got worse.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    Artmuzz said:
    I didn’t send any evidence for my last claim either. However, when I appealed my welfare rights officer sent the tribunal my medical records, GP’s records and a letter from my psychologist.

    However, the medical evidence was outdated because those records only ran from when I was a child up to 2016. I was applying for PIP for the period 2018.

    However, because I was so nervous and couldn’t explain myself well because of the terror the tribunal put me through they decided to base their decision on irrelevant info in my psychologists report which was outdated as my symptoms have since got worse


    The DWP make a point in telling claimants that evidence that is more than 2 years old is not required nor relevant. I don't then understand why your Welfare Rights Officer ignored that. Quite rightly the Tribunal paid little attention to the medical records as they were outdated.

    Something else that confuses me and may well have confused both the DWP and the Tribunal. You say that your symptoms have got worse so where is the medical evidence of that happening since 2016? It should have been sent in.as it would certainly be relevant for the two year period from 2016 to 2018.

  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    twonker said:
    Artmuzz said:
    I didn’t send any evidence for my last claim either. However, when I appealed my welfare rights officer sent the tribunal my medical records, GP’s records and a letter from my psychologist.

    However, the medical evidence was outdated because those records only ran from when I was a child up to 2016. I was applying for PIP for the period 2018.

    However, because I was so nervous and couldn’t explain myself well because of the terror the tribunal put me through they decided to base their decision on irrelevant info in my psychologists report which was outdated as my symptoms have since got worse


    The DWP make a point in telling claimants that evidence that is more than 2 years old is not required nor relevant. I don't then understand why your Welfare Rights Officer ignored that. Quite rightly the Tribunal paid little attention to the medical records as they were outdated.

    Something else that confuses me and may well have confused both the DWP and the Tribunal. You say that your symptoms have got worse so where is the medical evidence of that happening since 2016? It should have been sent in.as it would certainly be relevant for the two year period from 2016 to 2018.

    The tribunal actually paid attention to old medical evidence. The strange thing is that the tribunal judge decided to base his decision on medical records that were over 2 years old.

    He asked me if I was taking medication while I was seeing my psychologist in 2016 and I couldn’t remember and thought I was to which he said that I wasn’t taking medication according to the psychologist’s report.

    The panel asked me questions to which I replied and tried to answer them but with my anxiety and panic disorder I found it difficult to explain the problems I am having that affect my day to day life and I was a bundle of nerves.

    Anyway, I just received the PIP assessment report and again the DWP have failed to award me PIP. I got zero points except for one where I was awarded 2 points but it wasn’t enough to get me the award.

    Again the assessor wrote nothing but lies about me that I appeared calm and relaxed and spoke normally when in fact at the assessment my support worker had to constantly tell me to relax and take deep breaths.

    I don’t know what to do next. I will ask my support worker if she can write me a letter of evidence to write to the appeal at the tribunal after the mandatory reconsideration from the DWP has been decided.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Sadly, you can have a disability but not qualify for PIP. If you don't fit the descriptors then you won't score the points for an award and doesn't matter how many times you apply you could find yourself being constantly refused, even when taking it to Tribunal.

    Claiming DLA in the past doesn't mean you qualify for PIP because they are different.

    This link may help you understand the descriptors and what they mean.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    Sadly, you can have a disability but not qualify for PIP. If you don't fit the descriptors then you won't score the points for an award and doesn't matter how many times you apply you could find yourself being constantly refused, even when taking it to Tribunal.

    Claiming DLA in the past doesn't mean you qualify for PIP because they are different.

    This link may help you understand the descriptors and what they mean.

    I told the DWP and the PIP assessor that due to anxiety, depression and panic disorder I have problems washing, problems with looking after personal hygiene such as showering as I get panic attacks in the shower. I also have problems with mixing with people as in social anxiety and I panic when I am out my comfort zone and cannot go out because at find it distressing. However, I am still finding it difficult to get awarded PIP.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It's extremely difficult to score points for anxiety alone, unless you suffer from overwhelming psychological distress. Just being anxious around others won't be enough to score points in some of the descriptors.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    edited April 2019
    ilovecats said:
    I would say . . . and I am not trying to be mean or say that you do not suffer with anxiety . . . if a tribunal upheld the assessors decision then just applying again when little has changed will lead to the outcome being the same.

    Anyone can turn up and say they are anxious and have panic attacks. Without the right evidence / input / medication it is hard to prove. If you turned up at the assessment and interacted adequately then that also does not go in your favour. 
    The thing is I wasn’t calm and relaxed at my assessment. My support worker who was with me at my assessment had to constantly tell me to take deep breaths and relax because I was in a state of panic, tense and shaking. However, the assessor lied in the report and wrote that I was calm and relaxed and appeared confident which is utter lies.

    I have good evidence from my support worker, nurse and therapist that I suffer panic attacks and anxiety as well as depression. So the evidence is there.

    However, I don’t take any medication as I prefer the alternative of CBT and therapy and talking to my support worker.
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    Artmuzz said:
    twonker said:
    Artmuzz said:
    I didn’t send any evidence for my last claim either. However, when I appealed my welfare rights officer sent the tribunal my medical records, GP’s records and a letter from my psychologist.

    However, the medical evidence was outdated because those records only ran from when I was a child up to 2016. I was applying for PIP for the period 2018.

    However, because I was so nervous and couldn’t explain myself well because of the terror the tribunal put me through they decided to base their decision on irrelevant info in my psychologists report which was outdated as my symptoms have since got worse


    The DWP make a point in telling claimants that evidence that is more than 2 years old is not required nor relevant. I don't then understand why your Welfare Rights Officer ignored that. Quite rightly the Tribunal paid little attention to the medical records as they were outdated.

    Something else that confuses me and may well have confused both the DWP and the Tribunal. You say that your symptoms have got worse so where is the medical evidence of that happening since 2016? It should have been sent in.as it would certainly be relevant for the two year period from 2016 to 2018.

    The tribunal actually paid attention to old medical evidence. The strange thing is that the tribunal judge decided to base his decision on medical records that were over 2 years old.

    He asked me if I was taking medication while I was seeing my psychologist in 2016 and I couldn’t remember and thought I was to which he said that I wasn’t taking medication according to the psychologist’s report.

    The panel asked me questions to which I replied and tried to answer them but with my anxiety and panic disorder I found it difficult to explain the problems I am having that affect my day to day life and I was a bundle of nerves.

    Anyway, I just received the PIP assessment report and again the DWP have failed to award me PIP. I got zero points except for one where I was awarded 2 points but it wasn’t enough to get me the award.

    Again the assessor wrote nothing but lies about me that I appeared calm and relaxed and spoke normally when in fact at the assessment my support worker had to constantly tell me to relax and take deep breaths.

    I don’t know what to do next. I will ask my support worker if she can write me a letter of evidence to write to the appeal at the tribunal after the mandatory reconsideration from the DWP has been decided.
    That does seem strange. Why specifically ask for medical records back to 2016 which I presume were supplied, yet base the decision on records more than 2 years old? How did the Tribunal do that if they only had records back 2 years?
    It seems that everyone is making up their own rules. 
  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    edited April 2019
    twonker said:
    Artmuzz said:
    twonker said:
    Artmuzz said:
    I didn’t send any evidence for my last claim either. However, when I appealed my welfare rights officer sent the tribunal my medical records, GP’s records and a letter from my psychologist.

    However, the medical evidence was outdated because those records only ran from when I was a child up to 2016. I was applying for PIP for the period 2018.

    However, because I was so nervous and couldn’t explain myself well because of the terror the tribunal put me through they decided to base their decision on irrelevant info in my psychologists report which was outdated as my symptoms have since got worse


    The DWP make a point in telling claimants that evidence that is more than 2 years old is not required nor relevant. I don't then understand why your Welfare Rights Officer ignored that. Quite rightly the Tribunal paid little attention to the medical records as they were outdated.

    Something else that confuses me and may well have confused both the DWP and the Tribunal. You say that your symptoms have got worse so where is the medical evidence of that happening since 2016? It should have been sent in.as it would certainly be relevant for the two year period from 2016 to 2018.

    The tribunal actually paid attention to old medical evidence. The strange thing is that the tribunal judge decided to base his decision on medical records that were over 2 years old.

    He asked me if I was taking medication while I was seeing my psychologist in 2016 and I couldn’t remember and thought I was to which he said that I wasn’t taking medication according to the psychologist’s report.

    The panel asked me questions to which I replied and tried to answer them but with my anxiety and panic disorder I found it difficult to explain the problems I am having that affect my day to day life and I was a bundle of nerves.

    Anyway, I just received the PIP assessment report and again the DWP have failed to award me PIP. I got zero points except for one where I was awarded 2 points but it wasn’t enough to get me the award.

    Again the assessor wrote nothing but lies about me that I appeared calm and relaxed and spoke normally when in fact at the assessment my support worker had to constantly tell me to relax and take deep breaths.

    I don’t know what to do next. I will ask my support worker if she can write me a letter of evidence to write to the appeal at the tribunal after the mandatory reconsideration from the DWP has been decided.
    That does seem strange. Why specifically ask for medical records back to 2016 which I presume were supplied, yet base the decision on records more than 2 years old? How did the Tribunal do that if they only had records back 2 years?
    It seems that everyone is making up their own rules. 
    Yeah and even worse the tribunal lied about the missing audio recording when I requested it when requesting the statement of reason which was full of lies. This has got me thinking that the truth was in the audio recording but for some reason the judge refused to send me the recording and told me it was missing then when asked again it conveniently malfunctioned in the dictaphone.

    I got myself another solicitor who asked for the appeal to be held again because of the missing recording but the Tribunal judge refused. In Scotland it is law that all PIP tribunals are recorded with a dictaphone.
  • ArtmuzzArtmuzz Member Posts: 43 Connected
    It’s been a while since I’ve last posted.

    I reapplied for PIP last year and again got turned down at the assessment who only awarded me 2 points.

    I then appealed against the DWP’s decision and today was the day of the tribunal and I am delighted to say I finally won the appeal for PIP at the tribunal. :)

    The judge and panel were a lot nicer and friendlier than the horrible panel I got last year.

    I am so happy that I am now awarded PIP even if it’s only at the standard rate. :)
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Biggest congratulations @Artmuzz!! Thank you for letting us know. :)
    Community Partner
    Scope

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