Fit for some sort of work?????

fatherinpain

hi all I’m new and after some advice. What does fit for some sort of work mean on work capability? I’m obviously appealing this and am outraged. Here’s why, I have daily chronic headaches, rheumatoid arthritis with joints flaring daily often multiple joints, also been signed of work for the last 12months after jolting my back and discovering I have dddwith hardly any fluid in 2 of my discs. I’m in constant pain and the only med for pain Is 90mg exotorib. Also whilst waiting for appeal do I still need to sent ffw notes to universal credit

poppy123456

HI,

I'm assuming the decision you had was limited capability for work (LCW) is this correct?

fatherinpain

Yes you are correct 

fatherinpain

No sorry I misread your post letter says I didn’t score 15points so I’m therefore fit to do some sort of work I called up as soon as I got letter to ask what sort of work I’m meant to do to be told I have to figure that out and if I don’t try to I’ll be sanctioned 

poppy123456

This means that you won't have to look for work but you will be expected to take reasonable steps to prepare for work, such as attending a skills assessment, preparing a CV, participating in training or an employment programme, and undertaking work experience or a work placement.

A sanction may be applied to your Universal Credit award if you fail to undertake work-related activity. This sanction may be imposed for a period until you meet the compliance condition that you failed, or for up to 26 weeks.

You will not need to send in any more fit notes if you decide to appeal. The first step to appeal is to request the Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) and you have 1 month from the date of the decision to request this.

You should put in writing what you disagree with and why you think you should have been given LCWRA. Have you taken a look at the descriptors for LCWRA? See link and scroll down the page to find them.

• at least one of the LCWRA descriptors applies to you for the majority of the time or on the majority of the occasions that you try to carry out the activity;
• your capability for work and work-related activity is limited; and
• it is not reasonable for you to carry out the activity.

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Your-Situation/Ill-Injured-or-Disabled/Universal-Credit-Capability-for-work-assessment

For mobilising then they will look at your ability to use a self propel wheelchair too.

Only 19% of MR decisions change so you'll most likely have to take it to Tribunal. 71% of those who appear in person have a decision in their favour. Waiting times for Tribunals are huge across most of the country and it could take in excess of 1 year from when HMCTS accept the appeal.

fatherinpain

I’m already at appeal stage and am technically still employed but working zero hours, as without being bigheaded the boss thinks I’m good at what I do and has kept job open until fit enough to return

poppy123456

It's still worth looking at the descriptors if you haven't already done that. Good luck with the Tribunal.

fatherinpain

I can hardly walk at all without being in pain I can’t sit down or stand up for long periods without my back locking up I cannot lift anything as heavy as a bag of sugar without discomfort. And as for the headaches often so intense they make my eye leak like the feeling when you get pounced on the end of the nose. I should at the very least be on 27 points if I’m looking at the right scoring system 

poppy123456

You're looking at the wrong descriptors. LCWRA isn't about scoring points. It's about satisfy at least one of the descriptors the majority of the time that you carry out the activity. For mobilising then they will look at your ability to use a self propel wheelchair as well.

fatherinpain

Clearly is as letter states I didn’t score 15points how silly of me not to pick that up!! I think you should maybe read what I’ve written about what is actually wrong with me before typing in generic responses 

poppy123456

Pardon? As a community champion here on scope i'm trying to help you here, just like i give a lot of other people advice too.

LCWRA is not about scoring points, it's about satisfying at least one of the descriptors the majority of the time, which it does state that in the link i provided in a comment above.

poppy123456

As you didn't score 15 points needed for LCW then you could have been given this through substantial risk.

Substantial risk reg 31 for LCWRA is explained here. This may or may not apply to you. As i have no idea exactly how your conditions affect you then it's impossible to give advice which one may apply. For this then you would need to get face to face advice from an advice centre near you.

https://wcainfo.net/issues/substantial-risk-lcwra

fatherinpain

Try  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/535942/esa214-july-2016.pdf

fatherinpain

Up until the back injury I suffered in silence and knew nothing about benefits, now I have the domino effect from compensating for the back it has irritated the ra so much so that am now awaiting biologics

poppy123456

fatherinpain said:

Try  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/535942/esa214-july-2016.pdf

Thanks but i don't need a guide for work capability assessments. My advice about no points being needed for LCWRA still stands. I will leave you thread now because it seems like you don't need my advice. Good luck for your Tribunal.

poppy123456

Support Group is LCWRA link here explains those descriptors. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors

fatherinpain

So how comes letter clearly states I didn’t score 15 points? I can find numerous info with the point scoring yet you seem to be finding bits without 

poppy123456

It's because you most likely were given LCW because of a substantial risk which isn't scoring points. For ESA it's regulation 29 for WRAG. i'm not sure what the regulation is called for UC LCW, it's the same thing though just a different number.

Substantial risk is explained here in this link. http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/making-exception. It's reg35 for Support Group reg 31 for LCWRA, both exactly the same thing.

The point scoring is for LCW/WRAG not for LCWRA/Support Group. Not everyone gains entry into the groups through the descriptors, lots of people gain entry through substantial risk reg 29/35.

fatherinpain

You’re link does not work 

fatherinpain

Also let’s give you today’s troubles left shoulder swollen painful can’t lift my arm past bottom rib, left knee swollen painful can bend it but makes pain more intense, slight niggle in left foot just behind toes so later on that will be bad as well right foot swollen. Then on top of that I have the back pain but hey I’m capable of some sort of work 👌

poppy123456

I'm not sure why the link doesn't work for you, i clicked the link and it works fine for me. Here it is again. http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/making-exception

If it was limited capability work (LCW) you were given it doesn't mean you have to look for work and they don't expect you do that. They may ask you to attend appointments to prepare for work sometime in the future.

If you can't attend the appointments then i'd advise you to speak to your work coach and explain your conditions to him/her.  You do sometimes get some very understanding work coaches. If you don't like the one you have or they are not understanding and still expect you to attend appointments then you can request another work coach.

I can't advise you which descriptor may apply because i don't know exactly how your conditions affect you and it's impossible to give that advice on an internet forum. For this then you'll need face to face advice from an advice agency near you. This link will help you find what's in your area for help and advice for your Tribunal. https://advicelocal.uk/

fatherinpain

No I have been told I have to go back to work 

poppy123456

You were found fit for work? I asked if you had been given Limited capability for work and you said yes.

If you've been found fit for work then yes, you'll need to continue to send in the fit/sick notes while you wait for the Tribunal and you should have continued to send them even though you were found fit for work.

You also mention not being able to walk because of your conditions so i would look at the mobilising descriptor but for this they will look at your ability to use a self propel wheelchair.

I would definitely get some face to face advice from either welfare rights or a law centre if you have either of those near you. The link i posted above will tell you if there's any of those near you. I don't know how long you've been waiting for the Tribunal but just so you know, waiting times and backlogs are huge right across the country and some are waiting in excess of 1 year for a hearing date.

In the meantime definitely speak to your work coach and explain your health conditions to them and if you're still not happy then ask for a different work coach.

Good luck.

fatherinpain

I said yes but then also said I misread what you wrote. Then you seemed to get the **** with me but obviously you didn’t read that. So back to original question fit for some sort of work? 

fatherinpain

At last a bit of sensible advice. Sound in a similar boat, I’m awaiting spinal injections to try and help my mobility n then hopefully I can return to work. Like you say more you do worse it is especially with this RA I have multiple flares a day atm so will hopefully have the under control once on these biologics 

poppy123456

fatherinpain said:

At last a bit of sensible advice.

I have tried to help you and given you multiple links to read. The confusion has come from you saying "fit for some work" which is why i asked if you had been given limited capability for work (which you haven't) because you've been found fit for work. Fit for work means all work not just some work.

Your condition maybe totally different to @DanOApan and face to face advice is definitely needed here. I will leave it at that now because i've given you all the advice i can. There's only so much help you can on an internet forum.

Good luck.

fatherinpain

That’s not me saying fit for some that is what letter says

fatherinpain

poppy123456

@DanOApan please edit or remove the post with Mandatory Reconsideration link on it. This link contains personal information regarding yourself... Names and NI number. As a community champion here on scope we value our members safety and scope do not allow the use of personal information.

fatherinpain

I can barely walk say 20metrrs most of the time without my walking stick which occupational therapist gave me even with the stick it’s a struggle and I do rest. I’m not so much worried about the Money simply because everything is covered by u/c payments  and pip I don’t get out so don’t really need the money it’s the principle of knowing I’m not fit to work, my dr agrees my rheumatologist agrees but I’m judged to be fit for some type( sorry not sort) of work 

poppy123456

@fatherinpain my advice, use your PIP award and PIP assessment report as evidence and send both of those to HMCTS.

fatherinpain

I’ve r requested both be linked and was told both lots of evidence will be shared between files using my ni number and there’s a possibility depending on who is doing hearings they maybe sat at same time. 

fatherinpain

Poppy123456 I have been on phone with u/c they have told me not to keep sending fit notes unless I wanna start the whole process again/new claim will be started if I post fit note

fatherinpain

@poppy123456. I have received medical report from solicitor stating this injury would normally heal in 18months but because of ra and other issues he has recommended a minimum 3years healing time. This assessment was done by orthopaedic surgeon so a specialist. What’s your advice now seeing as uc are trying to force me back into work when I’m clearly not capable 

poppy123456

Any extra evidence you have needs to be sent to the Tribunal. There's really nothing more you can do until you have a hearing date and the Tribunal make a decision as to whether or not you have limited capability for work. I've never heard of a medical report from a solicitor before.

fatherinpain

Medical was for personal injury at work ie how I injured my spine so this was arranged by solicitor to form part of the case against my employer 

poppy123456

It may or may not help, i have no idea. For the work capability assessment they assess your ability to do any type of work but there's no harm in sending it to HMCTS.

fatherinpain

@poppy123456 I’ve received a letter from tribunal service to forward all relevant info as dwp have not responded to repeated requests. It does say in letter they have 7 days from date on letter which is 28/8 to do so. I called them as I didn’t fully understand the letter, guy I spoke to said that it’s getting more common for this to happen and doesn’t expect them to respond within the deadline, but wasn’t sure what happens after, so any advice welcome 

poppy123456

This happens a lot and DWP will most likely be given extra time. Even if they don't respond the hearing will still go ahead and you'll still need to prove you qualify.

fatherinpain

@poppy123456 who deals with this because u/c say it’s not part of their department and won’t tell who does, 

fatherinpain

@poppy123456

poppy123456

DWP respond but it makes no difference if they don't. Your hearing will still go ahead and you still need to prove the reasons why you think you should be placed into which group you think you should be in. It could possibly delay the hearing date but backlogs are already huge anyway.

fatherinpain

Who can I contact as u/c say it’s not part of their department 

poppy123456

UC is DWP. You should be contacting HMCTS to chase the DWP to respond. You shouldn't be dealing with DWP at this point.

fatherinpain

They have tried that’s y they had 7 days from 28/8 to respond. But turns out it isn’t just work capability they haven’t responded to pip which appeal was sent in January. How can they get away with this? If it was other way round, it would be case closed

poppy123456

It often happens as i advised but it doesn't stop the hearing from proceeding.

fatherinpain

So how can they be allowed to do this? 

fatherinpain

So @poppy123456 I’ve received both appeals same date same time to be heard late November. Tribunal people said it looks like they will be a joint hearing. Also heard from appeals team from pip they are looking at further evidence to see if they can give me the extra points before needing to do the hearing. This all seems strange to me is this common to happen?

poppy123456

fatherinpain said:

So @poppy123456 I’ve received both appeals same date same time to be heard late November. Tribunal people said it looks like they will be a joint hearing. Also heard from appeals team from pip they are looking at further evidence to see if they can give me the extra points before needing to do the hearing. This all seems strange to me is this common to happen?

I've never heard of an ESA and PIP appeal being heard at the same time. I'll tag admin to see what they can advise.

Sometimes awards are given or offered before a hearing takes place but it's rare.

@Adrian_Scope any help here will be really appreciated please.

Adrian_Scope

Hi @poppy123456 and @fatherinpain, I have to be honest I've not heard of them being heard at the same time before either. I've left a message with a colleague to see if they have had any experience of this and will feed back with anything I hear. 

poppy123456

Thanks @Adrian_Scope i'll be very interested if you do manage to find anything out. PIP and ESA are different benefits with different criteria so i'm really not sure how the hearing for both can be at the same time.

fatherinpain

@Adrian_Scope  @poppy123456  So I spoke direct to local tribunal Center both hearings are indeed to be held together. With the pip letter I cannot see anywhere where it says the award may go down does this mean that it cannot?

poppy123456

For PIP if they plan on taking points away then you will be warned before they do this and they'll either contact you before the day of the hearing and you can either proceed and risk what you already or cancel the PIP hearing and take the award you have.

Or at the hearing you'll be warned, the hearing for PIP will be adjourned and then you decide what you want to do, proceed and risk or cancel and keep with what you already have.

fatherinpain

I will proceed regardless out of principle, I want it to be fair like I said before this isn’t about the money it’s about what is right, but thanks for the heads up

Adrian_Scope

Best of luck @fatherinpain, hopefully they'll find in your favour. I'll be very interested to hear how they manage the dual tribunal. 

Adrian_Scope

Hi again @fatherinpain. I've just spoken to my colleague who hasn't heard of them being held together either, so she's spoken to the Tribunal Service for clarification. They've confirmed that this is entirely at the discretion of the judge who is hearing the case.
We would advise being wary and asking for a clear distinction between the two matters. If possible, make sure to get a full transcript of the hearing (especially if the benefits are not awarded) to check they have not applied the evidence to the wrong benefit! There are obviously overlaps between the two and I can see that holding them at the same time could reduce stress.

fatherinpain

Thanks @Adrian_Scope, although they are different benefits, my answers were the same to relevant questions on the forms, I guess they might be taken slightly different depending on pip/uc but I’m hoping pip will be sorted before the date of hearing, though no expectations of that happening. I’ve just started physio program through workplace accident/ insurance, who is doing an assessment report but it’ll take a few weeks to get to me, which maybe to late to submit to tribunal, can I take it along if it has any relevance to why I cannot work?or is there way to let them no that more info maybe forthcoming 

poppy123456

Not being able to work is relevant to the UC work capability Tribunal and not for PIP because PIP isn't about not being able to work.

Do also be aware that the Tribunal will only be able to take into consideration what your condition was like at the time the decision for both claims were made. Any worsening of condition will not be taken into consideration.

It's always better to send the evidence to arrive no later than 10 days before the hearing date. If this isn't possible then take it with you on the day and hopefully they will read it and there won't be any adjournment.

fatherinpain

Hi @poppy123456, yes I’m aware it is for uc and it’s not a worsening of conditions just potential input from yet another person treating me, the work incident is one of the reasons I’m not capable of working. With regards to physio report I’m told it could take up to 30days to get to me  which leaves 23days potentially meaning it won’t be with me before deadline for sending to tribunal, it may or may not contain significant info, so until I see it I won’t no if it would be worth using 

fatherinpain

Out of interest @poppy123456 if I’m awarded either lcw or lcwra how long do these awards last?

poppy123456

You can be re-assessed anytime from 3 months. Any dates given are guides only. LCW is ongoing until you're found fit for work.

If you're awarded LCW and your claim started after April 2017 then you won't receive any extra money. If you're given LCWRA and it's UC you claim you'll receive an extra £336 per month from the 4th month of your claim starting from when you sent your first fit note.

fatherinpain

Is the 3 months for lcw & lcwra?

poppy123456

Yes

poppy123456

This includes any timescale given my the Tribunal, you can still be re-assessed anytime from 3 months.

fatherinpain

Many thanks it’s not designed to be easy to understand 

poppy123456

You're welcome. I agree, the benefits system is complex indeed.

fatherinpain

So @Adrian_Scope @poppy123456 tribunal day tomorrow, just received a call been cancelled, no info on when to expect it to be relisted any advice would be helpful. I’m fuming that they left it so late in the day. Also dwp called last Thursday stating we wanted to award you the points for mobility as the evidence you have sent should entitle you to more but the assessment provider has told us not to. I asked if the call was recorded so I could get a copy of the lady stating this but was told it wasn’t.  To me this whole system is very much broken

poppy123456

I'm sorry to hear that, sometimes these things happen and a hearing needs to be canceled. There could be many reasons why, one of them could be that the judge isn't well and this certainly can't be helped. Hopefully, it won't be too long before you have another date.

Hmm, DWP wanted to award you mobility part but the HCP told them not to? Are you sure?. i've never heard of this happening before.

fatherinpain

That is what she said that’s why I wanted either the recording of the call or transcript, she said only incoming calls  to the initial call Center are recorded. For the record I get standard mobility it was the points for going places that are in dispute, they wanted proof of how I’m affected after nearly being killed physiology wise which was sent via tribunal service. 

poppy123456

Going places? do you mean following and planning a journey?

What about the daily living part?

fatherinpain

Yes planning a journey. Daily living is enhanced. Which bizarrely does include my forgetfulness regarding taking medication 

fatherinpain

@poppy123456

poppy123456

All you can do is wait for another date, i'm not sure what other advice you want?

fatherinpain

Well @poppy123456 I answered the question you asked me to which there was no response.  Here is another one for you. How can I be scored points for how my head affects daily living but not for mobility without a diagnosis? Do understand that I left for dead after being brutally attacked by a complete stranger resulting in subdural haemotoma swelling brain. I had to have a skull plate removed to relieve the swelling and two drain holes drilled into back of head. But it’s ok we will give you points because you are reminded to take your tablets, but we feel you can go somewhere you don’t know unaided because that will not cause you any panic or destress. And on a side note I have called pip about that phone called there is no recording but a note to say I have explained to mr xxx that I have tried to get hp to look again at mobility but was unable to change award

poppy123456

There's not always any answers so i didn't reply. Daily living and mobility are 2 completely different parts of PIP and you don't need a diagnosis to be awarded PIP. It's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors.

Some people are awarded one part but not the other. It just depends on the individual person. I can't comment or advise you on what you should be awarded because despite how awful it is what happened to you, i still don't know exactly how your conditions affect you.

fatherinpain

In a way I’m lucky I can walk n talk, my parents were told to expect the worst and if I did come round I wouldn’t be able to walk or talk because the area of brain that was damaged controls most of these functions. I’m unintentionally aggressive in my tone but can be snappy very forgetful can not look anyone in the eye cannot maintain a conversation mix n slur words. Get dizzy if I moved head to fast. I’m fine with things I know but get stressed with things I don’t which then makes daily chronic headache unbearable which renders me useless until it eases. Then we have spine injury and ra with daily flare ups which is far wise since injuring my spine rheumatologist has stated in a report I’m getting more flare ups waist down as I’m compensating for the back injury. So @poppy123456 there is a rough idea 

poppy123456

Thanks for trying to explain your conditions and i'm sorry to hear you're dealing with all that.

However, i'm afraid i still can't tell you what you should or maybe awarded. I'm not an expert, i'm just a community champion here on scope that volunteers my time to others.

No one on an internet forum can tell you tell you whether you'll be successfully awarded any mobility part. In the meantime all you can do is wait for another hearing date, hopefully that won't be too much longer.

Unfortunately, i can't help you any further at this time but i wish you good luck with your Tribunal.

chiarieds

Hi @fatherinpain - I 'think' I can understand your frustration as I have a little understanding of your undoubted medical problems. However, take this as a chance to be objective before your Tribunal. Not at all easy I'm sure. You need to stand back, & think how a Tribunal may better understand your problems. The 2 parts as far as PIP go are separate as you know; daily living & moving around. On the one hand it's commonsense that if your daily living has been acknowledged to be affected, then so too may the 'moving around ' component. However, the onus is upon you to better explain this.

Have you looked at the 'descriptors?' Here's a link to this indicating where points may be gained, which is what you need to do. See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

A better understanding about this (& my apologies if you already know) 'may' further your case.

As @poppy123456 has said, no-one, even in such a great internet forum as Scope, can say/suggest whether you should receive any component of PIP. Please be kind, she has helped many, many, people due to the knowledge she has learnt about benefits hoping to help others. Sadly, there's not one 'cookie size fits all' as an American neurosurgeon I know says. She has advised you as best she can.

fatherinpain

Hello @chiarieds the frustration is because of the phone call I received from the pip lady and the fact I cannot get a transcript/ recording of it. The sarcastic mmm never heard this before like I’m making it up has made me feel quite aggrieved and wish I could prove that I am not but like I stated above she left a note on the system 

Chloe_Scope

Morning @fatherinpain, I'm so sorry that they cancelled the tribunal at the last minute! I appreciate how frustrating this must be, especially when combined with the phone call.
I really hope you get a new date soon!

fatherinpain

I have now submitted a SAR asking for full copy and transcript of calls between dwp and myself and will endeavour to prove what was said to me by dwp 

Chloe_Scope

I hope this is successful for you @fatherinpain!

fatherinpain

So today was the big day, unfortunately they didn’t do pip because they didn’t have a third member of panel. So we turned up and handed in a few new pieces of evidence. 15 min later we(partner) were called in and question after question surrounding what causes the pain and how long it lasts. Questions about how far I can walk with resting to which they whipped out a map with a scale of length to determine the exact distance of how far. Questions then stopped and told to wait in waiting room until being asked back. Was awarded lcwra after scoring 21points from just 3descriptors. With a statement of “because the threshold of schedule 6&7 had been reached the tribunal did not consider other activities” and was told that “we can not see reason or reasons for it to have to come to before us” 
Success after 19months now just for the pip

Adrian_Scope

That's brilliant news @fatherinpain! I'm sorry it took so long but what a great result. 

I'd have been really interested in how they handled the joint tribunal and it's a shame you still have to wait for your PIP one but it must be a huge relief to finally be awarded what you're entitled to for UC.

fatherinpain

Yes huge relief @Adrian_Scope but also disappointed with pip one being delayed. I vaguely remember reading  a similar thread about there being an error in the way I was awarded lcwra by way of it being through points is this correct

poppy123456

Great news. Not sure what you mean about the error in points being awarded. Could you explain more please?

fatherinpain

I thought I read on here you don’t get lcwra through the points scoring 

fatherinpain

Also @poppy123456 what’s is the process now as I couldn’t take in everything the panel was explaining 

anisty

As far as i know @fatherinpain, being placed in LCWRA is not to do with points scoring at all.

You just need to meet one of the condtitions listed in their criteria for the group. I have them all somewhere in my tablet here but not at hand to post a link. Maybe someone else will do that.

My son was put into the group as he cannot sequence 2 personal actions. That automatically qualified him for LCWRA


Have a look at benefits and work site. They are all listed there. Ive a feeling this forum doesnt allow links to other sites.

poppy123456

It's because each LCWRA descriptor is 15 points anyway but you only need one of them to apply the majority of the time.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/universal-credit-uc/uc-faq/3904-limited-capability-for-work-related-activity

@fatherinpain the process now is it can take between 2-8 weeks to receive backdated money owed and for your award to be put into payment. You need to continue to send in the fit notes until you're award is in payment or until you hear from DWP.

fatherinpain

Hi @poppy123456 after mr they said I didn’t need to send fit notes in anymore, but I do have them

poppy123456

Ah, are you claiming UC and not ESA? if so then yes, that's why you didn't need to the fit notes.

fatherinpain

Uc my old friend

fatherinpain

Hello again @poppy123456 through all the confusion me and my significant other cannot workout when payment will be back dated to,I will give  a rough idea I’ve been signed off since 2june2018  Jc took copy of dr’s note on 20june2018 and booked us an appointment for 1july2018 to enrol on uc (first date of rollout/going live in ourarea) only started uc1july2018. It really is stumping us as we can’t seem to come to same conclusion. Also I read link you posted to some body else which reads confusingly as in either 3months after date of first dr’s note or if you waited over 3months for assessment it will be backdated till the assessment. The last point I can’t seem to get my mind to read it any other way. Hope you can unravel the mystery 

poppy123456

There's a full 3 month assessment period waiting time and then LCWRA is paid on the 4th month of your claim. As you send the fit note the same time you started your claim, you will be owed backdated money from October 2018. Approximately 16 months backdated money. Hope this helps.

fatherinpain

Many thanks @poppy123456, one down one to go.

fatherinpain

Hi @poppy123456 is there away to private message it’s about how much back pay I was meant to recieve

fatherinpain

Or @Adrian_Scope

poppy123456

@fatherinpain i will PM you now and you can reply to me. I will answer your PM as soon as i can.

Adrian_Scope

Hi @fatherinpain. Was Poppy able to help you with this? I hope it's all sorted.

fatherinpain

@Adrian_Scope between me and poppy we almost got to the bottom of it but a phone call to uc just  added to the confusion so it’s now being left as it is FOR NOW!