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Advice about PIP tribunal?

DumplingDumpling Member Posts: 24 Connected
edited May 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Can anyone offer any advice about pip tribunal? Thanks

Replies

  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,653 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Dumpling and welcome to the community! I'm sorry you are having to take your PIP decision to tribunal, I imagine this is very stressful for you! Here is some information about the process. Many of our members have gone through this process so I hope they will be able to offer you more advice on this. We wish you the very best of luck and please do stay in touch regarding your progress :)
    Scope

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger

    REPRESENTATION AND ROLES

    You can be 

    - a representative - you don’t talk for the appellant because they’re there but you do get to outline what award you’re looking for and what the legal case is as well as pick up on any issues the tribunal or appellant miss or misinterpret.

    - observer - sits away from the tribunal but you are watching only. You do not and cannot take part.

    - witness - you give your own evidence to support the appellants own case. You don’t get to comment on anything else. You watch silently, do your bit and you’re done.

    - appellant - the person making the claim being appealed. The only person allowed to present their evidence and answer questions on it unless they have an appointee. 

    Most family members struggle to be observers as it’s hard to be silent. They struggle to represent as they don’t know enough of the law, case law or guidance and confuse the role with speaking for the appellant and get shot down in flames to the detriment of the case. They often make poor witnesses as they haven’t been prepared by a rep and want to rehear the whole case instead of focusing on what they know. 

    The temptation to talk for any appellant needs to be resisted. You’ll always get people saying “but...

    - they’re not articulate.

    - they’re nervous.

    and many other arguments. Bottom line - nothing makes the case for the consequences of someone’s ill health better than a poorly appellant. 

    The other side of having representative is that, as you’ll read on here, people get incredibly stressed with the process; what comes when; what letters mean; what is good evidence; what will happen on the day. A good rep explains all and covers all the bases. It’s typical that people think representation is just about what happens on the day and the outcome. That’s about 10% of what gets done. A good rep should also keep you off web forums (seriously). All your questions should be answered by them. If people come on here because they need answers and they have a rep. that is concerning. 

    Now, having said that, tribunals are inquisitorial so it’s perfectly possible to win a case without a rep just as it’s equally possible to lose a case with a rep. However, a badly presented case can win with a decent tribunal but won’t with a poor one People who have won without representation tend to almost always ascribe this to something they did rather than the skill of the tribunal pulling out what was relevant. Having seen tribunals over three decades, including many times as an observer, it’s almost never the case. I’ve never yet heard of anyone unrepresented winning two tribunals for themselves. 

    Finally, don’t confuse an organisation with a good reputation as meaning all their reps will be good. Good organisations have bad reps. Reputationally poor organisation have good reps. How can you tell? Walk away from anyone who wants to tell you their success rate? It’s a fave tactic of organisations that charge but also of inexperienced or renegade/boastful reps. That tells you that they’re either lying or cherry picking only cases which are clear cut winners and probably would be anyway with a decent tribunal and without them. Good reps do not guarantee a win but they will take in winnable cases rather than likely winners and they’re the more likely to turn a marginal case into a winner. They’ll also know their law, case law and guidance and be able to cite it but in plain English. 

    TRIBUNAL

    1 - Concentrate wholly on what you were like on the date of claim.

    2 - There are no “trick” questions. Tribunals are usually listed 20 to 40 minutes apart so, apart from the appeal papers, they need questions which cut across lots of functions. So the car question is brilliant because it indicates grip; mobility; dexterity; the ability to do something repeatedly; concentration and stamina. Instead of thinking negatively about such stuff think about what they’re getting at and your answers will be much better and more detailed. Similar questions include whether you’ve been on holiday recently. It feeds into mobility (getting across an airport); stamina; the ability to cope alone; the need for aids and appliances.

    3 - There are no set rules or order for a hearing beyind the requirement that it must be seen to be fair. 

    4 - Watch the judge’s pen. All 3 members may take notes but only the judge writes a record of proceedings. If you don’t want them to miss anything then remember that they can’t write as fast as you can speak, so watch their pen and slow down. Don’t worry about going too slow. They will tell you if you do.

    5 - Never interrupt any tribunal member. It is perfectly okay to challenge them provided it’s not rude or aggressive. However, think about whether what you’re challenging them on is directly related to points. If it’s not then better to focus on points. This is especially important because loads of people second guess the demeanour of tribunal members as determining whether they are pro or against and it’s largely nonsense. An aggressive, challenging member may well just be a poor communicator and wholly on your side right up to the point you challenge them etc.

    6 - Get yourself a representative and travel to the venue by whatever means makes you feel comfortable. It’s only ever an issue if you don’t explain what you did in full and if doing so contradicts your other evidence in some way for daily living and /or mobility.

    7 - Same goes for clothes. You need to wear whatever makes you feel comfortable and relaxed. If you’re not relaxed then the likelihood of you presenting well are much reduced. Dressing down is not a good idea unless that all you can afford. A person who feels naked without make-up or a suit and tie will similarly be over stressed if they try to pretend they’re in their comfort zone dressing down. 

    8 - Other people’s tribunal experience can be valuable but it’s just that. Their experience. If they lost then it’s the tribunal to blame. If they win they everything they did is why they won and what you must do. The truth is usually very much in between.

    9 - Know your case. What points are you going for and why. What’s your evidence? “The HCP was a liar” is neither evidence nor a winning strategy. Also, know the appeal papers. What’s where. 

    10 - Do not be tempted to claim you’ve worsened since the date of claim. That’s a recipe for a failed appeal and an invitation to make another claim. Even if you have got worse always concentrate on your date of claim and what you were like then.



    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • tinka1992tinka1992 Member Posts: 97 Connected
    I'm looking for advice I applied for pip had assessment got copy of my assessment report witch what she says I am so upset i told my cpn nurse at mental health serves as the assessor at actos scored me 4 points I'm under mental health service on and off for good 8 years it's looking like I'm going to have to appeal it's making my ainexty and depression really bad everyday qith worry I also sent supported letters 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    tinka1992 said:
    I'm looking for advice I applied for pip had assessment got copy of my assessment report witch what she says I am so upset i told my cpn nurse at mental health serves as the assessor at actos scored me 4 points I'm under mental health service on and off for good 8 years it's looking like I'm going to have to appeal it's making my ainexty and depression really bad everyday qith worry I also sent supported letters 
    Hi,

    It's confusing when asking the same question on multiple posts, please try to keep to the same thread.  I answered your other question with this.

    You need to wait for the decision but they mostly go with the report. Your next step is to request the mandatory reconsideration and you'll have 1 month from the date of the decision to request this.

    You should put it in writing stating where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding 2-3 examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

    Avoid mentioning any lies that may have been told in the report because DWP and the Tribunal won't be interested in any of those.

    Most MR decisions remain the same so you'll most likely have to take it to Tribunal.

    If this was a review and you currently have an award or you're moving from DLA then your money will stop 4 weeks after the decision is made if the decision goes with the report.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • tinka1992tinka1992 Member Posts: 97 Connected
    My worker is going to help me I dont get dla I used to couple of years ago my worker said the assessor has made a few errors on my assessment report also DWP havent looked at it yet and are allowing me to send in further information from my workers
  • DumplingDumpling Member Posts: 24 Connected
    I would just like to know would a statement from my sister help towards my pip trubinal? I have my tribunal next week so will have to take it with me.

    Thanks.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    A signed testamonial will do no harm
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • twonkertwonker Posts: 617 Member
    A signed testamonial will do no harm
    Even better if the sister was to appear as a witness so that her evidence can be tested by the Tribunal.
    Anybody can write anything - it's more a question of whether it is treated as good evidence on it's own.
  • DumplingDumpling Member Posts: 24 Connected
    My husband is the one who will be attending with me as he deals with me everyday but he will be there to support me.
  • DumplingDumpling Member Posts: 24 Connected
    Thank you everyone! I had my tribunal today and I won. Soon as i got in there, they said we had made a decision as you have provided a lot of medical evidence.
  • buzzerbuzzer Member Posts: 107 Pioneering
    @Dumpling well done on your tribunal result.

    Try & be kind to one another even if we may have different views. 

  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,998

    Scope community team

    Brilliant news @Dumpling. Congratulations. :smile:
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope
  • DumplingDumpling Member Posts: 24 Connected
    Hello! I won my tribunal on the 7th June, I know I have to wait 28 days as the dwp can appeal. I heard it goes through debt management before you receive back dated money, is this right? What is the debt management?
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    Dumpling said:
    Hello! I won my tribunal on the 7th June, I know I have to wait 28 days as the dwp can appeal. I heard it goes through debt management before you receive back dated money, is this right? What is the debt management?
    That will be the DWP checking to see if you owe any debt and if you do, they will take that off the backdated money.
  • DumplingDumpling Member Posts: 24 Connected
    @Pipquestions2

    The debt is that dwp debt like social loans etc?
  • Pipquestions2Pipquestions2 Member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    Dumpling said:
    @Pipquestions2

    The debt is that dwp debt like social loans etc?
    Loans, overpayments, things like that.

    I'd you're currently paying them back then I'm not sure if they will touch it, but they probably will 
  • DumplingDumpling Member Posts: 24 Connected
    @Pipquestions2

    Thank you. Far as I know I don't owe any money to them.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 949 Pioneering
    @CockneyRebel
    Unrepresented (had a bolshy friend with me) and have won multiple tribunals.
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