Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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DWP Appeal - nightmare

I have an appeal today and am expecting to be treated badly by DWP. I have an undiagnosed condition which was purely awful for the last 6 months and lead to reduced kidney function and a hospital stay just a few weeks ago. The health investigation is ongoing so referred to a colon specialist. There lies the problem. So I have left and right flank pain, pelvic and back especially, usually kicked off by a trigger, like trying to carry something, water or food. It is hard to narrow it down - My query is I transferred to UC after failed assessment leading to this appeal and as I have been waiting weeks and had this kidney failure/reduction of function I provided fit-notes but was sent to employment groups to look for work then they stopped the commitments and sent me a new application for limited capability. I decided not to purse that as the experience has been too horrific. DWP told me my meds were those of a 13 year old and get myself to work with pain management. 

True story. So when I go to appeal am I only asking for the 4 week gap payment transition from ESA to UC. As this seems very harsh and brutal process for 4 weeks of £29. 

I am in a lot of pain and have reduced eating and drinking to work through the physical symptoms I take pain relief when out off to medical appointments which they say I shouldn't be able to get to if sick. I would walk over glass to get to Dr and have absolutely no alternate support to get me there. So sure I do struggle there in all manner of condition and I look dreadful on the way and when I arrive am generally a mess. 

What am I going to do if I don't pursue the limited capacity - fill up with pain killers and hold my breath until my surgeons appointment in September. Its been a rough time and even my Dr said it has been too hard for you - recently (referring to DWP) My Dr is supportive of appeal but of course this seems to mean nothing. 

Replies

  • zakbloodzakblood Member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    good luck for the appeal, and hope it all goes well for you
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    Thank you. If it is civil it would be all I ask - strangely at this point winning the appeal seems to be least on my mind. Rather than getting it over and done with. I changed from this experience. I feel calm but I have changed. 
  • zakbloodzakblood Member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    the hearings tend to be informal or mine was, there's not you and them, your all like together, so it's not about taking sides, it's more of a answer and question sessions and tbh quite relaxed, mine was anyway, and hope others feel or felt the same, it's not a criminal court, so very very civil and not so formal, there are precedes to follow, but not so stick that you can't be relaxed, but still stressed
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    As you claimed UC and were sent a work capability assessment form for that then i'm afraid you won't receive the full backdated money if you win your Tribunal today. However, how much will be backdated is a very good question. Despite my very good knowledge of the benefit system i'm unsure of the answer to that question.

    @Adrian_Scope do you know the answer to this please? Any help is appreciated.

    Good luck today but please bare in mind they will only take into consideration how your condition was when the decision was made. Any worsening of condition will not be considered.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    edited June 2019
    Ok well that is good to know. Good information. As it was a deteriorating situation due to inability to find the diagnosis. I had had a seizure prior to the assessment that failed and then fainted again after the assessment (each time with injuries) leading up to the partial renal failure. So it will be interesting to see how that goes. From what I gather it is a short period of monetary value I am guessing, although really I had no choice as so ill than to go to appeal. The relief from intravenous fluids was immense although the issue is ongoing
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    It is a catch22 as to which box you fit into isn't it ? Possibly my treatment at the onset was not the best but now on track. Maybe there is a support group or something for us inbetweeners.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger

    Those are the support group descriptors above. Or it's reg 35 which is substantial risk explained here. http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/making-exception


    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    edited June 2019
    Just a thought, are the Incapacity Benefits and the disability benefit assessments similar ?  Is there an element of near-deaths door before someone is eligible for the extra assistance (greater than UC) My medical bills and transport phone etc for emergency after hours were £180 in April, from a UC OF £69
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Incapacity benefit no longer exists. UC is now the only benefit available for those with limited capability for work.

    PIP isn't means tested but to claim that will depend how your conditions affect you. It's not about a diagnosis, it's how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors.


    A face to face assessment will most likely be needed for this and you'll need evidence to support your claim.

    If you have a limited capability for work then your only option is to send in fit notes for UC and go through that work capability assessment again. If the Tribunal goes in your favour today then the decision won't apply to your current UC claim.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    edited June 2019
    Yes, that has happened already the employment group I was assigned to by DWP, said I was too ill for their service and rang DWP. Evidence is easy as Paramedics had to come when I fainted for the injuries. Really I am not going to fit into any of these requirements for PIP now June, even if stood down by an agency. It will be good to be rid of today and put it all behind me. This life changing experience has made me sombre and I would never discuss my health with a soul after this, I'm just glad we are on track and maybe colon surgery will sort it all out so I can move on. When DWP abused me in March the phone call was not recorded as ESA decision-makers are not required to. It is the only department that you have to request the call to be recorded. She told me her epileptic colleague sitting behind her managed to get to work and so ought I with my pain medication.  I noted time and name. I did a formal complaint as CAB advised and the response was - could not find a worker of that name. I used the 0800 number so it is not on my phone bill unfortunately, although I was transferred to her. Terrible behaviour. If I could have avoided it all I definitely would have. Thank you for the links though. 
  • zakbloodzakblood Member Posts: 419 Pioneering
    i have the same happen at my local council office, and was told be a lady there who said, my husband has the same illness as you and looks a lot worse, so not surprised you go kicked off, there's a job out there for everyone now days in all but words, which was fine, but all i was asking is how it effect our council tax, such a simple question got a off the cuff and somewhat snotty reply, seems some are upset, with others just plain rude, and some just not caring one bit at all, but as everyone needs a hand sometimes in there life, i just feel sorry for when if it's there turn
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    Privatisation. The relationship between government and the public has changed. There is no going back. So the only way forward is to do what you can. 
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,954

    Scope community team

    Hello @katiesymon, sorry for the late reply (and thanks for the tag @poppy123456), I've been trying to find out the answer as to how long you may get backdated should you win but unfortunately it's not a simple answer so I don't have any news for you yet. I will keep working on it though and will get back to you ASAP.

    What time is your tribunal today? Have you had it already? Please let us know how you get on. :)
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    One thing that comes to my mind. When you were sent the work capability assessment for UC you said you didn't return the form, is that correct?

    Were you found fit for work for failing to return that form? Usually when you don't return the form within the time scale you'll be found fit for work.

    Also when you started sending in fit notes for UC were they for a worsening of condition or for a completely new condition?

    How did the Tribunal go?
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    edited June 2019
    Appeal over. I was successful on Regulation 29 of the ESA  Regulations, no thanks to me. Unfortunately I could only answer questions but I was too distressed to say anything planned at all. I'm not sure if the Secretary of  State will accept that decision or re-appeal it. CAB's presence clinched it for me as they discussed the issues with me, that I had with coping with the whole thing otherwise I would have bailed out and suffered dearly for that.

    I'm not sure what will happen from here on in, I was sent a Limited Capacity Application and I'm not sure if I will want to face the difficult time I was given again but I will persevere. The Appeal, recommends I am not assessed for 24 months that part is not legally binding. I did not walk away feeling as if I had won something, like a victor.  I came away thinking about how I got there, the rocky road, about healthcare and about myself. It is a tough road, so I really feel for anyone in this process.  CAB really gave immense support by their presence, wisdom, understanding and background work. The monetary value in my case will be small. in the short-term but is protected as it is needed futuristically.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Great news. Reg 29 is WRAG not Support Group. If your ESA claim started after April 2017 then they won't owe you any backdated money. ESA WRAG for those that applied after this time will remain on the same amount they were on for assessment rate, which is £73.10 per week.

    The recommendations for the time don't apply to you because you claimed UC and were sent the WCA for that claim. When you didn't return that work capability assessment for UC were you found fit for work?
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    edited June 2019
    No I was kicked out off a work support group as not fit. They rang DWP and said they couldn't place me in work as I had a partial kidney failure with ongoing health. Id had fit notes for sure, AKI and due to see surgeon in September. I was hospitalised between those committment appointments. 
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    edited June 2019
    I think I understand what you are saying, it was a WRAG group sent me off as unfit and rang DWP. This work assessment, this new LC this is still within the dates. Due 20th but I have to 27th of this month to send it in I think. My ESA started in 2016 but sure I did go onto UC when ESA was cancelled. I think the £29 protected element is the amount we were trying to preserve. I see a surgeon in 9 weeks so we are nearer to a resolution.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Ok, i see thanks.

    If you don't send in the work capability assessment by that date they will find you fit for work for failing to return the form on time. If this happens then the whole process because a lot more complicated. My advice is to please fill it in and made sure it's returned on time.

    The 2 year time scale the Tribunal gave you today doesn't apply to you because you have a new work capability assessment form for UC.

    You should receive some backdated money from the ESA Tribunal decision but how much you'll receive for how long, i don't really know. It's complicated now because of the new work capability assessment form you've received.

    It can take DWP 8 weeks to pay any money owed.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    edited June 2019
    I'm not sure now I see what you mean. We knew any backdating would be a week or maybe 2 weeks. £58. I guess Ill be sent back to WRAG at £73. It reminds me of a legal story about not using the toilet paper twice. 
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    I'm sure CAB said the element was what they recommended should be protected. They are aware of the new form for LC. What a god awful mess this whole thing is. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You can't ever go back onto ESA because you claimed UC. As you've now been sent another work capability assessment form, any decision made on the will overrule the decision the Tribunal made today.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    Yes, I think CAB might have intimated if we had a problem with it we could end up back at Tribunal. Id say that is what they meant. Now you have me thinking as isn't the UC £73 a week ? (its just the commitments, you are suggesting that make the difference ?) Hmmm …. systems, systems.... I'm sure you are correct. I wonder what CAB are talking about the £29 per week. I better research it. At the end of the day I'm heading to surgery and by hook or by crook there is no changing that, whether I stagger into WRAG, faint at an employers, or whatever occurs, My primary goal has to be my health. Tribunal write, 'if she is found capable of work this would result in substantial risk in her health' and to be quite frank - there would be no doubt of that.  
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    As your ESA claim started before April 2017 then you will receive some backdated money, how much you'll receive and for how long i don't know, sorry.

    Your ESA decision at the Tribunal today was for your ESA claim and you're now claiming UC.

    Yes DWP should honour than decision for UC as well BUT you've now received a work capability assessment form which must be filled in and returned no later than the date stated on the letter. If they don't receive that form by that date then you will be found fit for work.

    It doesn't matter what the Tribunal have awarded you today because any new decision made for your UC work capability assessment will overrule the Tribunal decision.

    You really must return the work capability assessment form and that's really what you should concentrate on next. Yes, it's a never ending process sadly.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    You sound informed so Ill send the form off and ring them tomorrow to check lateness and just see what transpires. By the time all that occurs I should have treatment decisions. That WRAG don't want me back and the Job Centre locally are not too keen either. This is not good news at all.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    found it Poppy123456  

    What is happening to the Work-Related Activity Component?

    In Summer Budget 2015, it was announced that the Work-Related Activity Component paid to those in the WRAG would be abolished for new claims from April 2017. The equivalent element in Universal Credit will also be abolished. This will involve a reduction of £29.05 a week (2017-18 rates) and aligns the rate of payment with those claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance (£73.10 a week). Existing claimants will not be affected, while there will be protections for those who may move into the WRAG or Universal Credit equivalent from the Support Group.

    https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7649

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    found it Poppy123456  

    What is happening to the Work-Related Activity Component?

    In Summer Budget 2015, it was announced that the Work-Related Activity Component paid to those in the WRAG would be abolished for new claims from April 2017. The equivalent element in Universal Credit will also be abolished. This will involve a reduction of £29.05 a week (2017-18 rates) and aligns the rate of payment with those claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance (£73.10 a week). Existing claimants will not be affected, while there will be protections for those who may move into the WRAG or Universal Credit equivalent from the Support Group.

    https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7649

    That doesn't apply to you for your ESA decision today because your ESA claim started before April 2017. This is only for new claims starting after April 2017.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    The Government have said that if you are receiving more money from your existing benefits than you would do under Universal Credit you will receive ‘transitional protection’ which is a payment that will mean that you won’t be worse off. That might affect you if you are receiving the ‘Severe Disability Premium’ or if you receive the ‘Work Related Activity Component’ on your ESA claim.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Unfortunately, the transitional support protection hasn't started yet and doesn't expect to be started until sometime next year.

    Please concentrate on your work capability assessment for for UC for now.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    It is transitional protection for those with ESA prior to 2017. For new claims after April 2017 the £29 will be abolished Poppy, in line with UC. My ESA was cancelled due to a decision by the Secretary of State, I did the Mandatory Consideration then the Appeal. 'The cancellation decision of the Secretary of State is set aside'. I transitioned from the Support Group....'there will be protections for those who may move into the WRAG or Universal Credit equivalent from the Support Group' UK Parliament House of Commons.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    So we were not concerned with backdated monies today at all, we were looking for the appeal to re-constitute the transitional protected amount of £29.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You're appeal today was because you were found fit for work for ESA which is why you claimed UC. The transitional support protection hasn't started yet because managed migration for UC doesn't start until at least next year.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    edited June 2019
    Sorry Poppy I see the confusion here and look any conversation is good - conversation is (provides information) I'm not from your region. I live in a fully immersed, full digital service area is sometimes called a “full service area” or a “digital service area”. Sorry I can see the confusion here. We have been fully serviced area for some time - I hope I can stay on SCOPE
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The £29 your talking about is the extra money paid to those in the WRAG that started their claims before April 2017, it's not the transitional support protection. I did previously advise that you will be backdated that money but how much and for how long it will be paid for, i'm unsure.

    When you return the work capability assessment form for UC then please make sure you send evidence to support your claim. You should also receive a Tribunal decision letter in the post very soon, i'd advise you to send a copy of that with your form as it could help your work capability assessment. Good luck with the assessment and i hope a decision goes in your favour without the need for a fight this time.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    For example if I moved house last year prior to the assessment I failed, I would have automatically have been changed to UC
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    We are only allowed use the digital service to talk with the work coach and to ask questions or record and respond to Tasks.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry Poppy I see the confusion here and look any conversation is good - conversation is (provides information) I'm not from your region. I live in a fully immersed, full digital service area is sometimes called a “full service area” or a “digital service area”. Sorry I can see the confusion here. We have been fully serviced area for some time - I hope I can stay on SCOPE
    No problem. All areas are now a full Universal credit area and have been since December 2018. The confusion is because you claimed UC after you were found fit for work for the ESA claim.

    Of course you're welcome to stay. As a community champion here on scope we always welcome everyone!


    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    edited June 2019
    CAB are exceptional in this field. You sound as if you do this for work as well, maybe you work for Scope. CAB didn't speak for me today, I spoke for myself. I did not expect my appeal to be allowed. I don't think in the future we expect DWP simply to say here is £29, per week, that is a political topic and personally I am not one for debating on the principle of it (nor any topic for that matter). Some groups do believe in it's validity and they take it seriously, Those groups campaign, lobby  government and press forward accordingly. They take the peoples needs in community and run with it, beyond expectation and when I am allowed my appeal, they have some small reward for having thought of me when they went home after work, or after piling through all of my personal records and emotional statements of nonsense. The House of Commons believed in the need for this component of £29 and the best, the rule of law could provide for, in this changing welfare policy was that 'limited protection' for it. I am sure if unscrupulous enough, DWP should by nature, give me a hard time again, and they can challenge the HMC Tribunal as well if they like. They got me rattled  last time - They won't be as effective as they were, next time, in taking my confidence. I am a statistic, nothing more. - and after discussion with you and the further shock of your advice, I would not allow it to become as consuming as it did, so you are right, it is quite likely to become a challenged application. I hadn't thought of it as becoming controversial again - in fact I wasn't going to fill in the LC as this process was difficult - I was naïve, and unprepared for it. So I will fill it in, I'll follow the process that WRAG and the Job Centre wanted me to follow as neither see me fit for work, and if £29 is a part of that I will ask for it because I was not the only person attending that process today. Backdated monies barely come into the equation, nor payment due dates that you keep reiterating on. That would be the far from my priority, apart from the measure of what that money represents. A total of £58. The £29 would be less than the difference between what I was entitled to prior to the assessment decision and todays overturning of that decision. It is only representative of the frequent emergency room visits I couldn't afford that generally a jobseeker does not have to think of. It probably represents 100 different people with many stories to CAB. Groceries you fail to buy because money is spent on Regent Strips, BP Monitors or exasperated phone calls. I know you have to be pragmatic and speak to me this way accordingly - but take it easy, we already have very firm purveyors of bad news. As much as you would wish me luck (thank you for that) and set the record straight - not that way and not today. I shall definitely take all of that information on-board when DWP respond and ask me in for another Health Assessment.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No, i don't work because i have a disability. I don't work for scope either i am a community champion here on scope, which means a volunteer.

    My knowledge is purely based on my own experience and all my research in trying to understand the benefit system.

    Good luck with the work capability assessment and please do make sure the form is returned on time.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    Ok well maybe a lighter on the bad news and less emphatic in your delivery of it. I am relieved to have that one day, over and quite frankly in our area we have the grace of 7 days lateness for an LC Form,  I don't want your bad news today. You gave me a fright.   - and then luck -. these men and women train very hard at what they do, they don't do it to lose and they are very humble . So I'll pass.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Really? ...If i hadn't of told you that the form needed to be returned within the time frame and you hadn't returned it, you would have been found fit for work because of that. You would have come back here asking why i didn't give you that advice. I spent hours of my time advising you............ I will not comment any further on your thread but i'll wish you good luck.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,954

    Scope community team

    edited June 2019
    I hope neither of you mind me jumping in here, but I can see the confusion and wondered if I may be able to clear it up a little. It comes down to the terminology you’re using and the different uses for it in the benefit system.
    @poppy123456 is right that transitional protection hasn’t yet started, this is ONLY for those who are forced to move to UC and will begin with Harrogate next month. Applying because of a change of circumstances etc doesn’t offer the same protection. 
    However, @katiesymon you (and CAB) were fighting to have your WRAG payment status protected. If you had failed the ESA appeal (even if UC eventually put you in the same group) you would lose the additional monthly money as it would mean your claim for WRAG/LCW began after the 2017 cut-off. By having it awarded at tribunal it will be viewed as a continuation so you’ll continue to receive the additional money while in this group under UC.
    The backdating gets complicated because your WRAG group should transition over to LCW, so you should receive backdated money from ESA for the period before you applied for UC and your LCW should be transitioned onto UC so you’d also receive backdated money from them. However, as they’ve started a fresh application for you it gets complicated as to whether or not UC will backdate as well. 
    CAB may be able to answer this for you, but I have also asked our expert here at Scope and will let you know as soon as I hear back.
    As an aside, it’s important to remember tone isn’t always conveyed correctly over the Internet. 
    I hope that helps, and congratulations on your success at tribunal yesterday.
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    That would be appreciated Adrian. - what comes to mind from that then is am I not better not to do a new LC Our area has been a fully-serviced area for close to 2 years all of my reporting is online with the journal.. One of the tricks I noticed when speaking with the original decision team who declined my MC is that she said start a new claim for your illness as I was going to appeal was going to appeal. The job centre ignored the fit-notes so I met  commitment's per the journal system - but the WRAG group I was sent to, cancelled that commitment and said I was too ill to place in work, rang DWP is send out the forms. I went into JC and the coach strangely said you are not on UC for unemployed person - could I be on LC already to have been sent to WRAG in the first place and have not realised ? I have a print out of income and the style of UC is not described. Our area is fully serviced - Northern UK.
  • katiesymonkatiesymon Member Posts: 59 Connected
    I understand tone, I am in very challenging pain, generally a by-product of leaving the house. I'm awaiting surgery Today was the first time to relax and realise CAB had a win.In that respect I am an in-between (undiagnosed with failing organs) usual criteria.That alone has been difficult. My days are not normal at all but alone I walk to the GP and struggle off to hospitals - right now I await colon surgery. 
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