Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.

Housing Benefit with ESA help!

My partner has been in receipt of ESA (income related with EDP) for 11 years and has previously had housing benefit when living with her ex.

She moved back in with her grandparents over 2 years ago after they split up.  They told her they would give her a year to get herself straight, clear some debts her ex started (she was the victim of financial abuse), etc.  

It has been well over a year and as we await a PIP tribunal (10 months and waiting) her grandparents have said to her that they are struggling without more money, as her conditions require lots of water, heating, and electricity use, as well as a special diet, and so on.

She wants to make a claim for housing benefit to be able to give to them, which will solve so many problems.

Two things:

1. If she draws up a tenancy agreement now, will they accept that as proof she has started paying them rent/board and lodge, when she applies shortly?

2. It says on her local council website that housing benefit has been replaced by Universal Credit but she does not want to go that route as she is terrified of losing her ESA and being refused Universal Credit.  She gets PIP daily living at standard rate, if this helps.

Thanks.

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2019
    Hi,

    She won't be able to claim housing benefit because all areas are now a full UC area. I do believe from previous threads that she's not entitled to severe disability premium in with her ESA because she's living with her grandparents. Which means for her to be entitled to this her grandparents would both need to be claiming a qualifying benefit such as DLA mid/high rate care, PIP daily living or Attendance Allowance. As she's not claiming SDP then she can't claim housing benefit.

    How has she been paying for rent in the past or has she been living there rent free at anytime at all? If she has been living there rent free then this will cause problems when trying to claim for help with rent through UC.

    This is extremely complicated and not really something anyone can help with on an internet forum. Your partner needs to get some expert face to face advice before proceeding any further.


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Hi again Poppy.

    She has been living rent free as they were kind enough to let her live there a year, but it has now become a struggle and they need money from her.  Why will this cause problems?  Her grandparents can no longer afford to keep her rent free.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It is possible to claim for help with rent when living with family members as her grandparents are not classed as close relatives but it will be extremely difficult.

    She will need to prove that it's a commercial arrangement rather than an informal family arrangement and this will be extremely difficult to do because she's been living there all this time rent free.

    As she won't be able to claim for housing benefit, it will have to be UC for the housing element and then her ESA will transfer across to this. She really does need to get expert face to face advice before claiming UC. It will very likely go to a decision maker and It could very likely be a long process.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    A couple more questions. Do the grandparents claim housing benefit theirself?

    If so, you say that she moved back there 2 years ago, did she previously live there before this?


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    She lived there from 15 to like 19 I think, then was with her ex from 19 to 25 I believe.

    She asked this in a Facebook group and everyone seems to think it is easy and she should have no trouble, some even saying they were in a similar situation.

    Also, with the transfer from ESA to UC, which is being rolled out in her area until 2023 anyway, is there a risk she could lose it all?

    She said she was successful with ESA 11 years ago because she met the descriptor for being incontinent weekly, but with UC the requirement has relaxed and its once per month.

    She is actually incontinent 3-5 times a week, as she has had severe Crohn’s and a doctor was negligent with a gastroscope last year which has ruined her back passage, so she’s now more incontinent than ever and has letters proving it.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    I’m very sorry but I missed one of your questions.

    No, her grandparents are private home owners and mortgage free.

    Another thing, why will the UC go to a decision maker?  According to this website, anyone who is in receipt of the Support Group ESA will not have to take the Work Capability Assessment.  Is this true?

    https://www.mind.org.uk/about-us/our-policy-work/benefits/where-you-can-find-help/moving-from-esa-to-universal-credit-faqs/

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes, yet another facebook story where the advice isn't quite right, i'm afraid. I really wouldn't rely on the stories and the advice you've been given on there.

    My advice above is correct. She will need to prove that it's a commercial arrangement rather than an informal family arrangement and this will be extremely difficult to do because she's been living there all this time rent free.

    If she claims UC then her ESA award will transfer across. If she claims UC then she will be assessed again at some point, the same as she will be re-assessed again on ESA.

    It will go to a decision maker for UC because of the housing element and not anything else. A decision maker will decide if she can be paid the housing element or not. Which is why i said she needs to get face to face advice because of the complicated situation. This really isn't a question for a forum or facebook. Remember she's been living there for all this time rent free and now suddenly she want's to claim help for rent which she hasn't been paying and they will definitely ask questions about that.



    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Thanks for the help.

    Am I correct that, even if she does not get help for housing, she will get slightly more money for Limited Capability for Work and Work Related Activity under Universal Credit than she does for ESA Support Group?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No problem. Yes, when worked out on paper there's slightly more money but if she can't claim for help with the rent does she really want to move across? It's a complete nightmare and her ESA award will most likely not be transferred across straight away because it rarely happens. She will be asked for fit/sick notes to start with until her ESA award has been transferred across and she most likely won't receive the LCWRA element in her first payment.

    In all honesty if it was me and the housing element couldn't be claimed then i'd leave UC well alone but that's my opinion. Please do get some expert face to face advice.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    It seems like you're saying it's futile even trying for rent.  I do not understand why the DWP have a problem with this.  People's situations change, and her grandparents' private pension ran out, leaving them just on state pension now, hence charging her rent as they cannot maintain their home so charging her rent is a must.

    Not only that, the reason she was rent free is they gave her a year after splitting with her ex in September 2017, but it has been well over a  year now, and unless she can give more, they just cannot keep her.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    I'm on the phone to her now.  She said she is going to ask for help at the Job Centre.  Is this expert face to face?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Asking for help at the job centre is not expert advice!

    It could be a problem because she's been living there rent free and they will want to know if it's a commercial arrangement and not an informal family arrangement. They will consider whether or not it's a contrived tenancy.

    Her grandparents should also have a benefits check at an advice centre near them. They maybe entitled to pension credit to top up their income.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Can they not backdate a tenancy agreement and sign it, but claim she has not actually paid the rent owed over the past year, etc. so she is in debt to them for £1,000's?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    That is not advisable and could be seen as benefit fraud.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Doing this they will want to know why she hasn't claimed for help with the rent in the past, why her grandparents are allowing her to live there rent free for all this time without doing something about it. This could potentially lead to a very difficult situation and i really wouldn't advise them to do that.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Yeah, that's probably not worth the risk.  It's just the situation is genuine.  The money is needed.

    What would you consider expert advice if Job Centre is not?  Citizens Advice?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm not saying it's not genuine but this situation is complicated and even more so because she's been living there rent free for all this time.

    CAB, welfare rights or a law centre. Check this link to see what's available in her area. https://advicelocal.uk/

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    No I know you didn't say that, I was just venting, sorry.

    And so Citizens Advice Bureau it is!  Thanks!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No problem. Let me know the outcome, i'll be very interested to know. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    Thanks @poppy123456

    Same as I will let you know the PIP outcome... if the tribunal ever arrives.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @Adrian_Scope i'll be interested to know your thoughts on this one please? Thanks!
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,937

    Scope community team

    Hello @PIPnewbie
    It is possible to claim for rent when living with grandparents but they would need a formal (commercial) tenancy agreement in place.
    I'd strongly advise that you don't have a tenancy drawn up and backdate it as this would be seen as fraud. But there's no reason they can't draw one up now and start the process. It would be worth looking into the LHA (local housing allowance) for a shared room/1 bedroom rate in the area as that's the maximum they'll help with. https://lha-direct.voa.gov.uk/

    I couldn't say for certain whether her claim for rent costs would be accepted by Universal Credit. As @poppy123456 mentioned, it would go to a decision maker who would look at whether they believed the tenancy contrived or not. The fact she has lived there rent free previously may work against her, however they don't always ask. Shelter has a little bit of information about this and may be able to help you further. Shelter - Renting from family.

    If she applies for housing benefit, this will be via Universal Credit so her ESA would also be transferred over. Some people have no problems with this as Regulation 19 means that her ESA award will move to UC, but unfortunately it isn't always a smooth transition and can mean a period of time where she's having to iron out any issues that arise.
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks @Adrian_Scope, there's really not enough of information on the shelter website other than to confirm than renting from grandparents is possible. I did find something on the internet last time about the rent free period could possible be an issue but now i can't find what i read.

    Personally, i would still get some face to face advice before applying for UC because there's no guarantee that it will be possible to claim for help with the rent because they may know more about dealing with the rent free period since living there. 


    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    @poppy123456 @Adrian_Scope

    Thank you for the help guys. I appreciate it!

    Btw, what issues might arise that need ironing out?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    PIPnewbie said:

    Btw, what issues might arise that need ironing out?
    That will be the transition from ESA to UC if she claims it because the Support Group (LCWRA) isn't always automatically added. Lots of people have constant issues regarding this.

    Of course if the housing element can't be claimed then she won't need to claim UC, which is why the face to face advice is needed before proceeding any further.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Thanks again.  So Citizens Advice is the best step next?
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,937

    Scope community team

    Hello @PIPnewbie, as Poppy said, the ESA transition doesn't always happen as smoothly as it should and claimants are asked to hand in fit notes (when they shouldn't be), resulting in triggering a new WCA instead of the transferal of ESA. It should be a straight forward process but sometimes needs to be argued for. 

    Citizen's Advice may be able to give some information on the tenancy but Shelter may be better versed with how likely it is to be approved and not considered a contrived tenancy. 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @Adrian_Scope

    Thanks for the advice.  How does she contact Shelter?  Their national helpline, or do they have individual offices? 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    They do have individual centres but that will depend on your area. Check here. https://england.shelter.org.uk/get_help

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,937

    Scope community team

    Thanks for answering @poppy123456
    I hope that helps @PIPnewbie. Please let us know how you get on. :)
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    Thanks @Adrian_Scope and @poppy123456

    She is definitely contacting Shelter tomorrow as well as going to Citizens Advice.

    In the meantime, she is wondering if she applies for Universal Credit to get the help with housing and for it to replace her ESA, and it takes 2-3 months, will she still get her ESA payments in the meantime?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No, if she applies for UC her ESA will stop and transfer across, as previously advised. Her Support Group award will be honoured in UC but this most likely won't happen straight away. If it doesn't then she won't be paid the extra LCWRA element until it is.

    I would not advise her to apply for UC for the housing element until she's got that advice because it may not be possible to claim for housing because of that rent free period, which could potentially cause problems.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Hart86Hart86 Member Posts: 394 Pioneering
    I just wanted to add that some people do claim UC without any problems and their esa is transitioned for the first payment without any hassle. I think it’s important to be informed so that if they do miss her esa off you know what you’re looking for and what to ask them.

    If she applies for uc her esa isn’t transferred she’ll only get the standard rate for her first payment (£317). But once it’s sorted they will backdate any owed money. Good luck with the tenancy side of things!
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456
    @Adrian_Scope

    Help time again guys.

    So my partner went to Citizens Advice and they said because she lives with grandparents and they aren’t classed as close relatives she should be fine.

    They also said because she applied for housing benefit back in Jan ‘18 but didn’t follow up after a visit they attempted to the property, it will show she has attempted to pay rent since the beginning of her living with her grandparents.

    Anyway, I am visiting again so we just applied for Universal Credit on the laptop and we put all the info about her being disabled, on ESA, and PIP... and it’s defaulted to a standard job seeking page where she has a job coach, has to attend an interview, show how she’s looked for work, etc.  How did this happen?  I thought it automatically migrated.

    Now she is panicking and rightly so because if her ESA stops at all she can’t even pay her grandparents the rent they require!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It's hardly ever a straight forward process when applying for UC, had you posted the question before applying then someone would have advised you.

    That process is correct, i'm afraid. She will be given a work coach for now and she will have to attend her local job centre for an appointment to confirm her identity. During this appointment she needs to ask her work coach to send the MPG1 form to ESA for her ESA award to be transferred across to UC. Until this is done she won't receive the extra LCWRA which is £336 per month. Once it's done they will add that element but it may take a few weeks or more. Hopefully it will be done by the time she receives her first payment but again this doesn't always happen. If it hasn't been done by that time, when it is done they will backdate all the money they owe her.

    Do bare in mind that there's a 5 week wait for her first payment for UC but she can ask for an advance payment to see her through this period. This will need to be repaid from future payments.

    She will also need to take a tenancy agreement with her to her local job centre, it will then be down to a decision maker to decide whether they will pay her any housing element. I really do hope that the advice she was given by her local CAB is correct. Do let us know the outcome.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Thank you so much for the advice.

    Wish the government website itself will say that. 
  • Hart86Hart86 Member Posts: 394 Pioneering
    Just to add, if she’s asked to submit a fit note to UC she shouldn’t!! Doing so will trigger a new work capability assessment under universal credit which is wrong. They should honour her esa and if she’s asked to submit a fit note she needs to make it clear that she already has a determined ESA award and under transitional regulation 19, this has to be honoured under universal credit.
    I can’t emphasise this point enough. Good luck to her! Xx
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    Hart86 said:
    Just to add, if she’s asked to submit a fit note to UC she shouldn’t!! Doing so will trigger a new work capability assessment under universal credit which is wrong. They should honour her esa and if she’s asked to submit a fit note she needs to make it clear that she already has a determined ESA award and under transitional regulation 19, this has to be honoured under universal credit.
    I can’t emphasise this point enough. Good luck to her! Xx
    Wow, excellent catch there.  I will pass that along to her.

    Thank you so much guys.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Sorry, one more thing, but her ESA was due a week tomorrow (30th), and then two weeks after.

    At what point does it stop?  Has her ESA already stopped now she’s applied for UC?  Or will it be when the work coach applies for the ESA to be brought over? 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It stops as soon as you apply. Hopefully her ESA will be honoured by the time she receives her first payment but don't be surprised if it isn't.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    Thanks Poppy.

    So if it all goes through smoothly and her ESA is honoured in time, etc., with her payment date being 29th September, over 5 weeks away, will she get the weekly rate calculated to 5 weeks on her first payment?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    ESA is paid in arrears so she will be owed money from that. Her first UC payment will be for 1 months money.

    Standard allowance over 25, £317.82 + £366.20 if LCWRA is added. If she's awarded housing element then that will be paid as well. Otherwise it will be just £317.82.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    How many weeks of arrears? 2 or 4?

    Thanks.  I tried using the calculators for her but I don’t get the non-dependents thing and council tax relief.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    And @poppy123456 is that £317.82 and £366.20 paid monthly or four weekly?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2019
    ESA is paid 2 weeks in arrears.

    UC is paid monthly not 4 weekly. Non dependents are others in the house but her grandparents circumstances won't affect her UC amount.

    It will be the figures you said above. If LCWRA isn't added in time then it will just be £317.82, when it's added it will be backdated. Hopefully this won't happen but it happens a lot so don't be surprised if it does happen.

    If she's a awarded housing element then this will also be added but i believe it will need to be decided by a decision maker because of her circumstances.

    Council tax reduction doesn't apply to her because her grandparents are responsible for that.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    Right definitely leaving you in peace now @poppy123456

    Can’t thank you enough!
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No problem. Do let us know the outcome, i'll be very interested to know because my concern is she hasn't paid any rent to her Grandparents in the past and they haven't made her homeless because of it. It could be classed as a contrived tenancy.

    Also just to remind you, when she attends her first job centre appointment to confirm her identity she needs to ask her work coach to send the MPG1 to ESA, once this is done her ESA award will be honoured in UC. She'll also need a tenancy agreement to claim for the housing element. Good luck.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Thanks Poppy!  She already has the tenancy agreement signed and ready to go :) 

    On her journal entries for the claim they’re telling her to phone a number for the interview but also to bring a fit note.  Should she mention on the phone when booking the interview that her ESA needs to be honoured?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes she needs to tell them that she already has LCW and is in the Support Group for ESA and no fit note is needed.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering


    Thanks @poppy123456 I’ll definitely get her to say that.

    This is what her journal says btw!
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Sorry, one more thing but under ESA my partner has always been left alone because of her LCWRA status, and has just received her ESA payments for years without issue.

    Obviously at some point there will be a reassessment in future but until then she’s just left to be.

    Will this be the same under Universal Credit?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes, once here ESA award is honoured it will be the same. They can also re-assess her anytime from 3 months, just like ESA.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Is that from AND including every 3 months?  And does this happen in real world experiences?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It's every 3 months from the date of the decision and yes, i've actually heard of people being re-assessed again after just 3 months.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    In her case, she qualified for the LCWRA of ESA for having incontinence at least once per week, but under UC it’s less strict and it only needs to be once per month, so surely with her condition and this never ever going away, they won’t waste their resources reassessing her every 3 months? 

    Also, if she got her last ESA payment on Friday 16th, she will now get one last ESA payment on Friday 30th next week correct?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    ESA Support Group descriptors are exactly the same as LCWRA descriptors. The only ones that are exempt from further assessments are those that have been placed into the severe conditions group and there's very specific criteria for this, as far as i know there's not many people been placed into this group as yet. This means that she can be re-assessed anytime from 3 months.

    I have no idea when she'll receive her next ESA payment i'm afraid. DWP would be able to tell her.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    edited August 2019
    @poppy123456

    I believe they are slightly different regarding my partner’s condition.

    ESA’s descriptor says:

    8. Absence or loss of control whilst conscious leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting), despite the wearing or use of any aids or adaptations which are normally, or could reasonably be, worn or used.

    At least once a week experiences 
    (i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or
    (ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device;
    sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing.

    UC’s descriptor says:

    Absence or loss of control whilst conscious leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting), despite the wearing or use of any aids or adaptations which are normally or could reasonably be worn or used.

    9(a) At least once a month experiences: 
    (i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or 
    (ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device, sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing. 
    Score 15

    9(b) The majority of time is at risk of loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder, sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing, if not able to reach a toilet quickly. Score 6

    9(c) Neither of the above applies. Score 0

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    PIPnewbie said:

    UC’s descriptor says:

    Absence or loss of control whilst conscious leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting), despite the wearing or use of any aids or adaptations which are normally or could reasonably be worn or used.

    9(a) At least once a month experiences: 
    (i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or 
    (ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device, sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing. 
    Score 15

    9(b) The majority of time is at risk of loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder, sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing, if not able to reach a toilet quickly. Score 6

    9(c) Neither of the above applies. Score 0

    I'm afraid that's the LCW descriptors not LCWRA. the work capability assessment and criteria are the same for ESA and UC.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It took me a while to find it but here's the link, it's descriptor 8 here.  https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/universal-credit-uc/uc-faq/3904-limited-capability-for-work-related-activity

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    What is it for LCWRA?  That’s where you are in the Support Group right?

    My partner is saying for ESA support group you needed 15 points and her incontinence got her that award in one descriptor.

    I am so confused here.

    LCWRA is higher than LCW right?
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456 sorry I only just saw your link.

    So LCWRA is the higher one and it’s still incontinence once per week, which is fine, because she is multiple times a week and that’s noted down on vast amounts of medical records.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    LCWRA is same as Support Group and no, it's not about scoring points for either of those. This is the highest group.

    LCW is WRAG and for this you need 15 points.

    Please take a look at the benefits and work link i posted above.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    LCW descriptors are here and descriptor 9 is evacuation of bladder or bowel at least once per month. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/universal-credit-uc/uc-faq/3903-limited-capability-for-work

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    PIPnewbie said:
    @poppy123456 sorry I only just saw your link.

    So LCWRA is the higher one and it’s still incontinence once per week, which is fine, because she is multiple times a week and that’s noted down on vast amounts of medical records.
    Yes, i know which is what i've been trying to advise you but you kept saying it was once a month.

    Either way, re-assessments can take place anytime from 3 months for either of the groups.

    My advice right now is to concentrate on her new UC claim and making sure her ESA award is honoured in UC. Any problems come back for more help but for now, i can't give you anymore advice. Good luck with her UC claim and i hope it goes smoothly.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    So there’s a lower and higher LCW, lower is 9 points, higher is 15?

    And Support Group/LCWRA are a different animal and nothing to do with points? What determines getting into this then?

    She got her ESA like 11 years ago, so perhaps she’s forgotten a few things.  She’s never been reassessed once.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    There's no lower or higher of LCW it's just LCW and it's 15 points for this group, not 9.

    The links i posted above will tell you the criteria for both groups.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Never mind I have read the second page on your link.

    LCWRA isn’t about points, just meeting a single severe descriptor. Got it.

    She meets that descriptor and has vast amounts of proof she does, so she is all good, no matter the reassessments they throw at her.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    She just added this as a journal entry as a message to her work coach on the UC website.  The same journal that told her she needed a fit note.

    Hello, I am already under an ESA award of LCW and Support Group (LCWRA) and under Universal Credit Transitional Regulation 19 this must be honoured, so no fit note is needed.

    Is this correct?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    She needs to ask for the MGP1 to be sent across to ESA for her ESA award to be honoured in UC. Until this is done her award won't be honoured and she won't receive the LCWRA element. She can ask for this to be done when she has her first appointment.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    This will be done at the appointment, we just wanted to let them know we are aware and she will not be bringing a fit note, so not to get any funny ideas of tripping her up.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Thank you for your advice @poppy123456.

    I really hope you get this sorted @PIPnewbie :)
    Community Partner
    Scope

    Tell us what you think?
    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,937

    Scope community team

    Hi @PIPnewbie, does she have a date booked in for her initial interview now? 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    I hope it goes well @PIPnewbie!
    Community Partner
    Scope

    Tell us what you think?
    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456 @Adrian_Scope @Chloe_Scope

    hey guys it went really well thanks

    the work coach was the one insistent on how she wouldn’t have to attend anything else, wouldn’t have to have regular meetings, and then laughed and said as your journal entry says the ESA will transition over

    As far as the housing was concerned he didn’t see an issue.  He entered the details of the tenancy agreement and rent onto the system, and said everything has gone through.

    I know it will probably pass through the eyes of somebody who authorises it and she is not out of the woods yet, but fingers crossed.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    That's great news @PIPnewbie!! Thank you for letting us know! It's so good that the work coach was understanding. :)
    Community Partner
    Scope

    Tell us what you think?
    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    He was a credit to his job @Chloe_Scope

    a truly lovely bloke
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Glad everything went ok. Yes, the rent element will pass to a decision maker to make the decision.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,937

    Scope community team

    Hi @PIPnewbie, thanks for updating us, I was wondering how you'd gotten on! It's great to read that the work coach was so good, it makes a huge difference. 

    Was she offered an advance and was it explained how they work? 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456 I will let you know the outcome. She should find out on the date the work coach said she will find out what she’s getting, which was a date 6 days before she gets paid?

    @Adrian_Scope she did get offered an advance but she said with the cash in her purse and her last ESA tomorrow and her PIP next week will see her through.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,937

    Scope community team

    That's great @PIPnewbie, it's definitely better to get by without it if you can afford to. 

    Just in response to your message to Poppy, yes her statement should appear on her online account 6 days before she's paid. It doesn't always show at the weekend or on bank holidays and be aware this is the earliest a statement can show, so if it isn't available on that date, don't panic!
    If it isn't showing 2-3 days before the payment is due, it's best to give them a call to check nothing is blocking her payment (sometimes a simple thing like they haven't verified something or pressed a button to release the statement, but always worth checking). 

    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @Adrian_Scope thank you :D

    You guys are awesome!
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456

    Sorry, I know I’ve just had great news for my partner, but onto the next hurdle.

    She was due to find out what her UC payments will be on the 22nd but it’s suddenly changed to the 24th, with her first payment being bumped from 29th down to 28th.

    Any reason for this?

     And considering she has not heard back regarding the housing from any decision maker, is that in the bag now?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The 22nd is a Sunday so that's most likely the reason why. No idea why the payment date is a day early but that's not a bad thing.

    Can't answer the question about the housing element either but she'll find out for sure on the 24th because what she'll receive will be on her journal.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    edited September 2019
    @poppy123456

    Thank you 😃 

    Again, if you’re interested, I will report back!

    (And just realised the 29th is also a Sunday!)
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456 @Adrian_Scope

    Just thought I would let you and the rest of the group know that my partner just checked her Universal Credit account...

    And during the same 7 day period she is informed she is getting Enhanced Mobility and backpay...

    She is getting her full Universal Credit claim, with the LCWRA component included...

    AND housing too!

    Wow, I am overjoyed for her. What a turnaround in fortune.

    Thank you so much for all your help guys.  I cannot tell you the relief to her and hopefully and improvement on her health this will mean.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,937

    Scope community team

    Hi @PIPnewbie
    Sorry I haven’t spotted your query regarding the statements sooner. I know she’s received it now but I wanted to add that they updated the system last week to change the date it says the statement will be released to 2 days after an assessment period ends. They’ve not revealed why but I can only imagine it’s to give them a few extra days to process and stop all the queries asking where the statements are.

    Anyway, I’m so glad to read her UC has been sorted too and they’ve included her full housing element and LCWRA! What a rollercoaster of a week the two of you have had!
    As her payment day is on a weekend she’ll actually be paid on the working day before (so this Friday). 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Great news! :)
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    Hi @PIPnewbie
    Sorry I haven’t spotted your query regarding the statements sooner. I know she’s received it now but I wanted to add that they updated the system last week to change the date it says the statement will be released to 2 days after an assessment period ends. They’ve not revealed why but I can only imagine it’s to give them a few extra days to process and stop all the queries asking where the statements are.

    Anyway, I’m so glad to read her UC has been sorted too and they’ve included her full housing element and LCWRA! What a rollercoaster of a week the two of you have had!
    As her payment day is on a weekend she’ll actually be paid on the working day before (so this Friday). 
    Great news! :)
    Thanks so much again for all the help :) 

    For some reason they're taking £165 from her first payment because she got an ESA payment after her application.  I thought it would be the opposite where they paid an extra week on top of the monthly payment as she applied a week before the last payment date. 

    Oh well, so long as she gets it fully from next month :) 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome.

    Any payments of ESA received after she claimed UC will have been deducted from her first payment.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    That's great news @PIPnewbie, thank you for sharing!
    Community Partner
    Scope

    Tell us what you think?
    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • PIPnewbiePIPnewbie Member Posts: 268 Pioneering
    @poppy123456 I guessed so and it is just a one-off :) 

    @Chloe_Scope thanks so much :)
Sign in or join us to comment.