PIP, DLA and AA
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Dressing and Undressing

BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
Hi there. I've just had my F2F on Friday, I applied back in Feb but it's taken this long to get an appointment. She came to my home. She seemed kind and made me feel at ease. I feel like I have an idea what I scored in most daily living sections (mainly because I have OT fitted aids and she had the OT report proving it) but I am unclear in the washing and dressing sections what to expect. So she arrived about ten mins early at 9.50. I was not washed or dressed. I tend to be whacked from the drugs I take overnight, then I have to take more drugs and wait for them to kick in, before I can dress. Most days that will be about around 11am, around the time she left. I explained I find it impossible to do up a bra which to me is an essential part of being dressed, but I can otherwise dress myself some days, but never in a timely manner (as explained above). So what points should I expect here? As I read that if it applies for part of the day, it should apply for the entire day? I also may have contradicted myself as she asked me to touch my head, and I did. But I never raised my arms. I literally tapped my forehead.

Secondly, I use a bath board (OT fitted). But explained I need help getting the shower down and that on top of this I will sometimes need help to wash my hair. I also explained I struggled to use the board without help getting on it. So would I just score points for having the aid, or for needing help getting in or out? I will phone maybe Wednesday to ask for the report, but want to be clear in my own mind what I should score.

On the mobility said she refused to have me stand up and wouldn't let me attempt to see her out the door. So I assume that's a positive. I worry I've talked myself out of some of my problems, however the aids alone show the need there, as I don't feel the additional parts would add any points to the next descriptor anyway. 

Any help greatly appreciated. 

Thank you! 

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    2 points could be scored for needing/using an aid but it will depend what aids you have. You will always score points for using an aid if it's reasonably expected for you to use one, even if you don't use one. If assistance is needed then you need to explain why it's not safe for you to use an aid. Needing assistance doesn't mean you'll score points for this.

    Dressing and undressing, needing assistance for the upper body is 4 points but whether you'll score this depends on how often you need assistance. Saying you can dress yourself some days doesn't really help.

    Very difficult to speculate anything at this point. Once you receive that report you'll be able to add up any points that maybe recommended, they usually go with the report.

    once a decision's made if you're not happy you'll have 1 month from that date to request the MR good luck.





    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,294 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello and welcome, as poppy123456 has stated get a copy of your assessment report and on receiving it you can workout what you're award may should be but you still have to wait for the official award confirmation letter. 
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Thank you. If anyone is able to delete the other post as this posted twice, that would be great. What about the fact I am unable to dress at all for hours after I wake up, any day? I know I need to wait for the report then decision, but I was hoping to have an idea myself on what criteria I fit, otherwise I can't decide if a Mr would be needed if that makes sense? On the aids alone I feel I would score standard award, the dressing section could be the deal breaker for enhanced.

    I can dress myself maybe 4 days a week. But never ever upon waking. It takes me hours to sort myself out to be able to dress. On no days can I do up a bra. I don't get dressed every day. I can spend 3/4 days a week not dressed. I also spend weeks at a time housebound in pj's. I just was hoping to know what descriptor applies to me so I am in a position to disagree or agree with the report when I see it. Its the 'if it applies to part of the day, it should be taken as the whole day' thing. As in that case it would be unable to dress at all! Hope I've made myself clearer?

    Thank you =) 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You'll need to wait until tomorrow for admin to delete the other thread, unless they see this evening but usually no admins work weekends. Only Community champions like myself are around on weekends.

    PIP is about how you're affect at least 50% of the time over a 12 month period. If you say you can dress yourself 4 days a week but not as soon as you wake then you may score points here. A bra is not specifically included, it's the upper part of your body in general that's counted and this will be 6E.

    I'd advise you to have a look at this link, it will give you more of an understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Hi Poppy, thank you for your super speedy replies. I did go through this forum and found that link on the descriptors hence why I said I think any other info in other areas were irrelevant, as the aid alone was the deal breaker if that makes sense? But I cannot get my head around the dressing and Undressing more than anything. And a bit of the washing one. It could be a full 8 points as I cannot dress for hours after I wake and that fits the 'applies to the whole day' thing. Or it could be 4 points for the bra, or they could argue you don't HAVE to wear one. In that case it could be zero 🤷🏼‍♀️ I wouldn't go to MR to argue against things that are not in the descriptors, I just almost want another opinion on which descriptor most likely fits. I've waited 10 months to get a F2F, I am exhausted with the entire process already x
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    2.1.13 The timing of the activity should be considered i.e. whether the claimant can carry out the activity when they need to do it. For example getting washed and dressed usually happens in the morning. For example If a claimant takes medication (such as painkillers) allows the individual to carry out activities reliably when they need to throughout the day then the claimant can still complete the activity reliably when required. For example, if a claimant takes painkillers as soon as they wake and they can get washed and dressed soon afterwards they would not score under these activities.

    2.1.14 If however, the medication did not start to work for a significant period such as to delay the claimant going about their daily business then the HP should consider a scoring descriptor. For example, if a claimant takes painkillers as soon as they wake but they have to delay the task of getting washed and dressed for 2 hours until the painkillers take effect then the HP should consider what help is required to carry out the activities reliably at the time the claimant would normally carry out those activities.

    This is what I was referring to x
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I have no idea if a bra in included with this activity. I know i've never been able to put a bra on in the way it should be put on but i wouldn't expect to score points for this, even though i claim PIP.

     First they will consider whether an aid would help, if it would then it would be 6B 2 points. If an aid wouldn't help they would look at needing assistance for the upper body it would be 4 points. In my opinion based on what you stated here you wouldn't score 8 points for not being able to dress/undress at all.

    For washing then as i advised, if an aid can reasonably be used then you would score 2 points here. 

    You're trying to guess what you maybe awarded but that's impossible until you see that assessment report and add up the recommended points. Once you've done that then consider your next step if need be.


    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    I'm simply trying to apply myself to the criteria, otherwise how else do we know to apply and if our award is correct? I have no idea what the HP will put, I am simply trying to see what I think so when I get the report I am clear on its accuracies in terms of my condition and the tight criteria. A lot of the way my problems affect me have no bearing on the criteria. That is all I am trying to do, and I thought I had explained that a few times. Thanks for your help. 
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 1,998 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2019
    I had my f2f at home in October. I felt the assessment went ok.
    But I was not left with the feeling that I would get the award I knew I should get. I just couldnt tell either way.

    Then like you  I pondered, then worried about various sections and the answers I`d given.

    I decided against asking for a copy of the report.....I knew I couldn't change any of what I`d said or written.

    I waited for the result letter. It came about 3 weeks later. The result was brilliant. Full award for both parts.

    Becboo.....I feel you are driving yourself silly...thinking too much...going over and over it wont change the outcome.

    There have been posts from a few other PIP claimants, who ask for reports before the decision, who read good results, but it doesn't give them a definitive answer. And they still build u so much stress. So why give yourself even more angst than necessary.

    Yes, I did get the right result first time, but it could have gone the other way, causing me to do an MR.
    I just don't see the point in asking for reports before decisions. That only adds to the crisis.

    I don't mean to sound uncaring Bec, I just want to help ease things for you.

    Take care hun xxx

  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Thank you, I had a phonecall from a manager this morning thay I missed, phoned back and a decision has been made but the decision is still showing as pending on the system despite it saying its been made 🤦🏼‍♀️ I've got to call back. I think it will be no award, not got a good feeling. I'll let you know ps. Pollyanna I hope that's your real name as it's my favourite name in the world! 😍
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Standard daily living, standard mobility!!! 
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    I've received my report and the assessor HAS gone against it! She awarded me only 6 points in total for daily living. And suggested 2 year review. Its 4 years it's been awarded for. My letter hasn't arrived with the award but I've been read it over thr phone. Do you get an explanation in the letter of what the dm decided upon or not? I do feel I should have gotten enhanced mobility, but standard care is fair. The report has put me off even going to MR x
  • worried33worried33 Member Posts: 399 Pioneering
    Which descriptors didnt you get?
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    The report has only ticked 1b, 4b, 5b, but she's written massively contradicting statements which obviously the decision maker has spotted as they have awarded me. I pray my MP gets voted back in today so I can discuss it with him x
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Oh and 8 points for mobility but states I can only walk too and from my car which is parked outside x
  • worried33worried33 Member Posts: 399 Pioneering
    Just read your posts, I can tell you what my assessor told me.

    He told me if i dont do an activity every day, he told me to pretend I did it, would I be able to do it.  So in your case you dont get dressed every day, but if you know that you wouldnt manage it most days, then you would be ok saying that.

    On the underwear, I would assume it counts the same as any other piece of clothing, as after all you still have to change it to wash it, take it off to have a bath/shower, so for me I dont know why that would be excluded.  Did you tell them you go without having the bra on? if you did they may have took that as you dont need to wear it and so can ignore your problems with it.  But thats speculation on my part.  I think that may have been how they interpreted it, you cant put it on, but then skip it and carry on getting dressed without it, they would perhaps count that as successfully getting dressed.  If you on the other hand decide to not get dressed without it, and have to wait for someone to put it on for you to finish getting dressed then I would expect you to get the descriptor.
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    She's basically noted upon physical assessment or examination my shoulders are limited in their movement (I knew they were stiff but didn't realise I had restricted movement, I thought I was just slow), and she's noted that I take a massive amount of amytriptlyne which causes me to be a fuzzy mess in the mornings and that i need to take painkillers and wait for them to kick in before getting dressed. Then said I can reliably get dressed. It is not reliably, for the reasons she's stated. I cant dress myself til the afternoon most days. She noted the bra. She has noted my conditions are degenerative (I'm only 34, I have sever rheumatic disease and severe asthma with two other breathing disorders) and suggested a review of 2 years. The decision maker awarded for 4 years. It is the fact that I've already had a decision maker who's gone against the report thay puts me off challenging the fact I think I should have been awarded enhanced mobility. She's stated herself I cannot walk! 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    The assessor has gone against it? Sorry but gone against what? The assessor doesn't make the decisions, the decision maker does. If you've already had the decision then the decision maker went against the report and this is a good thing.

    You're right in being worried about requesting the MR because the next decision maker may not agree with the decision already been made and they may disagree, which may mean you could lose those points and everything you already have. For this very reason before requesting the MR you really should get some face to face expert advice.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Apologies I used the word assessor when I meant decision maker. Yes they went against the report. I have got an appointment next week at citizens advice as she's also put things like I have said I'm fine with communication (I am) and I never ticked that there was a problem on the form, but she's written this is not consistent with the finding because I was able to communicate, kept eye contact etc. I think I will not risk the award being lost, but I am going to get the entire thing looked over. The report she contradicts herself in nearly every area. Writes how I have problems but then it's not a problem 🤷🏼‍♀️
  • worried33worried33 Member Posts: 399 Pioneering
    I had the same reasons given to me on that anxiety descriptor.  Its nonsense, but I didnt fight it as I already had an award.  They should probably be using people who have a speciality in mental health for these descriptors if they want to f2f.
  • BecbooBecboo Member Posts: 25 Listener
    In mobility she's written she found restrictions in my joints on examination, I was observed walking slowly with a waddled gait, I cannot repeat walking to my local shop (about 25m) away in a day and only go 1-2x a week. Then says so I can reliably walk 20-50m?! Yet reliably is safely, to an adequate standard, in a timely manner etc 🤷🏼‍♀️
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