PIP, DLA and AA
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Audio recording for P.I.P

ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
Hi everyone,
Its been a while since ive been on the site, a question i would like to ask Audio recording is it allowed? due to having a Assessor who lied at my last assessment, i recorded assessment i had a couple weeks ago, and i was right to make that recording as what this other assessor has said, he has basically contradicted himself at the assessment, and i have the evidence to prove it, (Now i know im not  loosing it) can this be submitted as evidence, i feel that theres a red flag against my name, thats why i am been given a hard time, any advice would be really [email protected]@[email protected][email protected] 
Thank you in advance
Ebeneee

Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,284 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello, for starters you shouldn't covertly record your assessment it's illegal. As I take it you have a copy of your assessment report then you can prepare evidence for your Mr if this is required. Give real examples of what happens or happened each time you attempt or tried to do preform the descriptors your contesting on no account include evidence that you recorded the assessment or refer to it in any way. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    Did you get permission to record the assessment and did you hand a copy in at the end of that assessment?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2020
    @ebeneee - yes it is allowed.

    Just have to give them a couple of days notice, using certain recording formats and produce two copies - one of which goes to the assessor.

    The conditions in more detail are on the assessment providers websites...

    Edit - IIRC you have to sign a form saying that you won't use it for anything unlawfull..
  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    Thank [email protected]@[email protected]
    No the Assessors  was not aware that i was recording assessment, i had a date early january this was cancelled, support worker and i was not aware of this, we sat and waited, support worker called capita and was informed the appointment was cancelled and rescheduled for 2 weeks later, no message was sent to my mobile number of cancelled appointment and rescheduled one, so the ner one a week later, we did not know if this was going to happen, so when the door knocked i just turned on mobile phone and started to record, i also have  audio recorder (tape) due to issues with the last assessment i had, i was second guessing myself, and wandering if i was saying thing and not aware i was saying them, for instance in the assessors report he stated that i was calm had good eye contact, he also said that i had no suicidal thaughts and i didnt seem anxious, but in the recording i was crying the assessors asked me if i had sucical thaughts and it is clear as day in the audio recording that i said yes, i also raised my voice as i was frustrated as i said that i feel like i am going off my head,  it just doesnt make sense whats in this report, so im able to use the audio as evidence to contradict what the assessor was saying, other than my support worker supporting me and at times had to step in to clarify things with the assessor, it is my only hope of been treated fairly, Thank you all for advice given
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Thankfully you didn't get caught covertly recording the assessment.If you've added up those points and it doesn't recommend and award then once the decision is made then it's the MR route within one month of the date of the decision.

    The request should be put in writing stating where and why you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you. It's not about what did or didn't happen during the assessment because that's not going to score you points. What will score you points is proving where and why you should have scored them.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    [email protected],
    Thank you for responding to my message, ive taken all on board what you have said example, i have medical problems that i need support to have personal care ie washing of my back, legs support to put on clothing and take off clothing care plan was sent in as evidence, also consultant letters which are 3 months old of issues with neck spine and lumbar care plan which stated i am assisted in the shower room and to put on clothing by the carer, but assessor has scored me 0 for getting dressed and undressed and 2 points for using an aid in the shower room, even though ive stated what happened the last time i tried to do this, and care plan provided also consultation paperwork, assessor still scored me low, i dont understand his reasoning, when it is clear that i get support poppy123456
  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    This is the reason why i recorded the assessment, its my word against theirs, in life theres others who dont have to provide much and they get a fair hearing and theirs people like myself who have to fight for what they beleive they need.

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome. If they think you can reasonably use an aid then you will score points for needing an aid, rather than needing assistance. For washing/bathing, assistance for washing hair and below the waist is 2 points, assistance to get into and out of the bath/shower is 3 points, washing between the waist and shoulders is 4 points.


    Has an award been recommended when you add up the points?

    To use the recording you will need to get it transcribed.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    Hi poppy123456,
    No once again no daily living standard mobility, i cannot use an aid like a brush because i have frozen shoulders as well as cabulant tunnel syndrom of both arms because of elbows, so i need support to do my back, legs and shoulder so that should have been 4 not 2 poppy, Thank you i will try and see where and who can do transcript for audio, thank you for taking time out poppy, making me aware of what i can do so appreciated Thank you
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No problem. Just so that you're aware, a long handled brush is most likely not classed as an aid because it will be classed as an everyday item. Very few able bodied people wouldn't be able to wash there own back, so 4 points may not be possible here. This is why i advised to have a read of that link.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Member Posts: 7,428 Disability Gamechanger
    @waloc please be mindful of your comments.
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    HI @blah,
    your comment these people are spies for DWP,, who is the spy ?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2020
    @ebeneee as a community champion here on scope, i'd like to tell you that the person that made that comment has now be removed from the forum.  We are a safe community and there are no spies here.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,931 Disability Gamechanger
    No problem. Just so that you're aware, a long handled brush is most likely not classed as an aid because it will be classed as an everyday item. Very few able bodied people wouldn't be able to wash there own back, so 4 points may not be possible here. This is why i advised to have a read of that link.
    I think we need to be careful on such a broad brush (pardon the pun) statement. 

    Items are not excluded because they’re everyday items but rather because they’re being used for an everyday purpose. It’s the reason why case law decided that a bed would not ordinarily count as an aid to dressing. Most people use a bed to dress. On the other hand many day lamps sold by certain charities are no more than everyday table lamps. However, they do count as an aid specifically because the majority of people do not ordinarily use a table lamp, or indeed any light, during the day.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,931 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry, perhaps Scope could add this into my previous post. 

    If you’re recording for private purposes then you do not need consent and it’s not illegal. The moment you share the contents then you need consent. That said, tribunal rarely exclude evidence no matter how obtained so it likely would be admissible. 

    On the other hand it’s likely to be a side issue. Proving a HCP recorded inaccurately or even lied (which you cannot prove as you have no evidence as to intent) will never get you PIP. The better use of your time would be to focus on what points you ought to score and why and the anecdotal evidence go back that up.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    I agree with @mikehughescq....

    I recorded my assessment and found it useful as a record of what was said (and also what I thought I'd said but hadn't)

    However it did take me a long time to transcribe it - the time I spent on this was probably better spent concentrating on MR...


  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    [email protected],
    Thank you for that info regarding blah, as i thaught that i was missing something, coments were been made and i couldnt see, thank you for clarification on that.
  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    [email protected],
    Thank you for responding to message  really appreciated, i will be getting support to complete this, explaining the reason when i attempted something last and what happened when i did this, i hope that i dont have to go back to the tribunal stage again, as it was  time consuming,  i appreciate advice given  regarding audio recording and if it can be used, ive taken everything you have written on board, and i appreciate the time you have taken out to respond to message.
    Thank you mike.
  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    [email protected],
    Thank you for responding to message, as i explained previously i recorded the assessment because i needed to know if i was saying something, and wasnt aware that i was saying it, my memory is not that good, to compare to assessment and what was said, i have to admit that the assessor wasnt that bad but vital information that was spoken and seen was not recorded, that would have given the extra points, but on the audio you can hear but taking all advice on concentrating on the MR when support worker can support me with this.
    Thank you cristobal
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No problem,

    With the MR success rate being so low, you should expect to have to take it to Tribunal. If you can get face to face advice/help and support from an advice agency near you, then i'd advise that. If it does get to Tribunal then representation from an advice centre would be even better. https://advicelocal.uk/

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    [email protected],
    Thank you for replying, im just hoping that this dont get to the tribunal stage, as i went throught this last year, all for the sake of points, points were taken away from me, so i had to complete change of circumstances, and here we go again, looking at assessors report again, i am tutting and wandering how do these assessors get away with the lies, in my report assessor stated that my feet was not swollen( i have odema of the feet and legs i take frusemide wear stockings and had amlodopine reduced by gp, i was not aware that my feet were swollennot until i went to surgery as my feet couldnt fit on my shoe), assessor said that i was not in pain, (i take tramadol 50 mg, pregablin 300 mg, fenbid cream capacin cream to be rubbed in knees) Assessor wrote i stood up out of the chair with no problem with left arm holding the crutch, i am right handed cant use my left hand with the crutch, and he was the one who told me to sit down i was ina lot of pain, as when i stand im unable to stand straight due to servical spondylosis in neck spine and lumber, frozen shoulders cabulant tunnel syndrome of both arms because of elbows, all that i have stated have been diagnosed by scans and  blood test, i have consultants gp pain management, district nurse now involved, i have support of carers as well as a support worker, care plans and daily notes have been ignored, also all information from consultants which are current and up to date,anxiety, depression claustraphobia agraphobia has also been ignored current paperwork from mental health stating this has been ignored, they dont see my asthma, hypertension diabetes, cronic regional pain syndrom of ankle as anything, the dont see cronic pain syndrom of the body as anything either even face tumour is classed as nothing, im on meds for all or brain injury as a problem(short term memory loss) im at a loss poppy
  • ebeneeeebeneee Member Posts: 87 Courageous
    I know its not about the amount of health condition you have, its about how it afects me, im in pain when it is cold i just dont want to do anything, as my body aches i cant do the norm things like i use to do without help support, when i do anything it takes a lot out of me menatlly as well as physically.
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