PIP, DLA and AA
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Assessor lied for pip

star05star05 Member Posts: 10 Listener
I had a f2f 3 weeks ago. I got my report yesterday. I cried she had blatantly  lied. I rang the dwp up and was so distressed on the phone. They have written down what I said that she has lied about. Decision has not been made yet but I scored no points. I have spent since last night writing up every point that she lied about and the real truth. Do I send it of to the dwp. Can I get her sacked she claims to be a mental health nurse I have told them she needs sacking 

Replies

  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 2,866 Disability Gamechanger
    Firstly you need to get your claim sorted out and forget about if she lied or not, I assume this was for PIP? when you get the decision from the DWP you can ask for an MR (mandatory re-consideration) at this point you should concentrate on telling them where you think you should have scored points but didn't, if the MR fails then you will have to appeal, again they won't be interested on why you think the assessor lied.
    When you get your award then perhaps consider complaining to the people who carried out the assessment but i'm afraid it wont get you very far.
    Not exactly what you wanted to hear i'm afraid.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2020
    Hi,

    I have to agree with @woodbine here sorry. You can't prove what did or didn't happen during the assessment and DWP won't be interested in any of the lies/contradictions. Any complaints about the report should be sent to the health assessment providers.

    It's unlikely that the HCP will be sacked because again you can't prove what did or didn't happen. Once the decision's been made you'll have 1 month from that date to request the MR.

    When writing the MR letter it will also be very useful to add a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

    May i also ask if this was a transfer from DLA? i see from another thread that you were claiming this.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • star05star05 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Yes it was a transfer.  I have picked the report apart and she said I did not need support for anything. I scored zero.  Why can they lie and get away with it. 
  • star05star05 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    May I add that I work and I feel that this has gone against me even though I struggle on a daily basis and have only just gone back after being of sick due to my heart 
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 2,866 Disability Gamechanger
    star05 said:
    May I add that I work and I feel that this has gone against me even though I struggle on a daily basis and have only just gone back after being of sick due to my heart 
    many people claimed DLA and worked, and many claim PIP and work, you can still have care and/or mobility issues and work, it would not have gone against you.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes people do claim PIP and work BUT if the work you do contradicts the reasons why you're claiming PIP then it can go against you.

    Please also be aware that DLA and PIP are completely different. PIP is about how your conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors. It's not about a diagnosis.

    If it gets to Tribunal and most do then concentrating on the report will not be appreciated. It won't get you a PIP award. The only thing it will do is weaken your case. You need to state where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why then add those real life examples.

    Send relevant evidence with the letter to support your claim.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 1,999 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi, many people are very upset when they read their PIP assessor`s report.

    This subject has been thrashed about on here and other support groups I use.

    Getting the right result cannot be guaranteed.....even if you have been on DLA for years.

    As Poppy and others have said, go back into the descriptors and pick them apart with a fine toothcomb.....using them to explain how certain activities are difficult for you...what equipment you use and when you need the help of another person, to compete the activity safely and often.

    After you receive your decision, go for an MR.......see how that goes....go to tribunal if necessary.

    As wrong as it is, DWP take no notice when claimants say assessors have lied. I got a right bee in my bonnet about this..on behalf of other people! 

    Do your letter about this after your award has been made..if any.

    I hear what you`re saying. xx
  • star05star05 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Do you know what this means at the bottom of my report. 

    Based on the available evidence, I consider there to be no requirement to arrange a review of this claim as significant change is unlikely and then the box is ticked. 

    It then says 
    no significant restrictions identified and review is not required 



  • soconfusedsoconfused Member Posts: 101 Courageous
    Hi @star05

    I think it means she says that's it and there is no need to review as you don't have anything wrong with you, which is totally wrong. The DWP just got exposed for over 7000 PIP reports altered or binned - it's such a massive thing 

    I had a home visit for my F2F and the assessor left out the whole conversation regarding my anxiety and going places and planning journeys - she tried to justify it by saying as I had held a driving licence and drove I had no mental health issues. 

    I got 10 points for Mobility and therefore standard. I asked for the Mandatory Reconsideration and that was also rejected - end of the day the case managers are not qualified so they go 100% off the points given - which is why so many people say get the report so you can work out what the decision is likely to be - It's not guaranteed but it most always is what they wrote down.

    I then waited 5 months for a Tribunal which I had last Thursday - and all they did was concentrate on the section the DA had left out - In the end I was awarded another 4 points for planning a journey and so I am now on Enchanced Mobility

    Keep the fight my friend, I was so scared I had done the wrong thing I nearly pulled out of my Tribunal - but now I am glad I stuck at it - the people on the panel were lovely and the DWP rep also got a roasting from the judge which made me smile inside :)
  • pollyanna1052pollyanna1052 Member Posts: 1,999 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi, I have heard that Tribunal panels give DWP a roasting for denying claimants a fair deal. They are decent human beings, which sadly, some assessors aren't.

    Mine didn't even ask me about `following a unknown route alone`...but said I can in her report. I cant! I don't go anywhere alone.
  • star05star05 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    I rang them and they told me to send in a letter so o have typed it up and sent it. She said that I did not require support in the bathroom. I pulled the report to pieces and said that she did not observe me in the bathroom so how can she know that and also that I can walk more then 200 meters without anything distressing me. Again she did not observe that and also she said that I had given consent for a physical examination that everything was ok. She never asked me so she lied. I have also picked to pieces the descriptors and told them how certain descriptions affect me.  How on earth can you assess someone in 55 minutes.  
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Observations are part of the assessment process and even though you obviously weren't observed in the bathroom some of the things that "may" have happened during the assessment for the observations and the evidence you sent is most likely where the conclusions came from. For example, you may have got up from the chair you were sat in with ease or you may have bent down to take something from a bag, without any problems. You may have been observed walking from the waiting room to the assessment room, without too much difficulty. I'm not saying this is what happened of course, it's purely an example.

    Pulling the report to pieces and mentioning and lies/contradictions is not going to get you a PIP award and they won't be interested in any of that. What they will be interested in is where and why you think you should have scored those points. Then add a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you, will also help.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • star05star05 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    I have I have done this and given them examples. It may not get me the pip award but at least I actually felt better. I know I have to give my notice in at work and leave because without that support I will not be able to go to work. The woman who did the assessment I’m surprised she sleeps at night like I said how can you know someone in 55minutes.   
  • soconfusedsoconfused Member Posts: 101 Courageous
    edited March 2020
    Well they can't - but they don't want to - they just want to keep the awards down so will do anything they can to stop the claim - or so it seems.

    I now have up to 8 weeks to wait for my letters and money - I will have just under 3 years of award so I intend to use it to it's fullest - first thing will be a nice new mobility scooter as I don't have one right now and I would be able to get out again.  
  • CressidaCressida Member Posts: 681 Pioneering
    star05 said:
    I have I have done this and given them examples. It may not get me the pip award but at least I actually felt better. I know I have to give my notice in at work and leave because without that support I will not be able to go to work. The woman who did the assessment I’m surprised she sleeps at night like I said how can you know someone in 55minutes.   
    I work and receive pip, it is possible. Please don't resign from work because of the report. As long as the work you do doesn't contradict what you put on the form. Good luck. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @star05

    I think it means she says that's it and there is no need to review as you don't have anything wrong with you, which is totally wrong. The DWP just got exposed for over 7000 PIP reports altered or binned - it's such a massive thing 

    I had a home visit for my F2F and the assessor left out the whole conversation regarding my anxiety and going places and planning journeys - she tried to justify it by saying as I had held a driving licence and drove I had no mental health issues. 

    I got 10 points for Mobility and therefore standard. I asked for the Mandatory Reconsideration and that was also rejected - end of the day the case managers are not qualified so they go 100% off the points given - which is why so many people say get the report so you can work out what the decision is likely to be - It's not guaranteed but it most always is what they wrote down.

    I then waited 5 months for a Tribunal which I had last Thursday - and all they did was concentrate on the section the DA had left out - In the end I was awarded another 4 points for planning a journey and so I am now on Enchanced Mobility

    Keep the fight my friend, I was so scared I had done the wrong thing I nearly pulled out of my Tribunal - but now I am glad I stuck at it - the people on the panel were lovely and the DWP rep also got a roasting from the judge which made me smile inside :)
    Nope. It simply means that, had they recommended an award, it would have been an indefinite or 10 year award. 

    As regards the original post there are three things to say.

    1 - you cannot legally prove that someone has lied. You can only prove that they made an inaccurate statement. They only “get away with it” where decisions are unchallenged. 

    2 - a HCP is entitled to form their own opinion and make recommendations based on that. It’s not their role to simply repeat and rubber stamp what you tell them just as it’s not their role to listen to your story. The focus is solely on functional ability. Can you reliably perform a points scoring activity or not.

    3 - proving a HCP report to be factually inaccurate will not get you PIP. What gets you PIP is the evidential examples of when you last attempted those points scoring activities. 


  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2020
    @mikehughescq - I agree with you...

    Also, in my opinion, the assessors don't conclude that there isn't "anything wrong with you" - most of the time the fact that there is something wrong is beyond dispute because a doctor says so.

    It's the impact it has on you that they disagree with - our old friend 'functional ability' again...

    Regards...
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    Yup, exactly that @cristobal. People read the report and either conclude it wasn’t about them or that the assessor lied or that the DWP are saying there’s nothing wrong with them. None of those are ever the case.
  • skullcapskullcap Member - under moderation Posts: 182 Courageous
    ilovecats said:
      
    They don’t want to keep the ‘awards down’.
    The assessors do not have any targets for awarding. 
    If anything they are picked up on under awarding.
    They are also not very astute at picking up on when a claimant under states their difficulties and where they over state their abilities so as not to be seen as some poor old guy who is finding just living extremely hard work but by human nature will always tend to overplay how they are able to cope.
    I remember in my last assessment being asked if I drive or have a driving licence. I told her no I had handed it back to the DVLA. She clearly didn't believe me because her next question was that if I did have a driving licence would I still be able to drive a car - of course I could but wouldn't want to. You can imagine what was in the report. It was said that I would have no difficulty driving a car hence no mental illness and physically fit!!

  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    @skullcap yadnad ...

    Following my assessment I got some points in 2 activities where I'd put 'no problems' on my application, and left the rest of the box blank.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    skullcap said:
    ilovecats said:
      
    They don’t want to keep the ‘awards down’.
    The assessors do not have any targets for awarding. 
    If anything they are picked up on under awarding.
    They are also not very astute at picking up on when a claimant under states their difficulties and where they over state their abilities so as not to be seen as some poor old guy who is finding just living extremely hard work but by human nature will always tend to overplay how they are able to cope.
    I remember in my last assessment being asked if I drive or have a driving licence. I told her no I had handed it back to the DVLA. She clearly didn't believe me because her next question was that if I did have a driving licence would I still be able to drive a car - of course I could but wouldn't want to. You can imagine what was in the report. It was said that I would have no difficulty driving a car hence no mental illness and physically fit!!

    Actually under the circumstances; given their poor training they do fairly well in a small majority of cases at doing exactly that. They are exceptionally poor on mental health and sensory loss but there’s little they can do if people overplay, which is essentially giving dishonest/inaccurate answers.

    If you stated that you’d handed your license back then the next question I think any reasonable person would expect would have nothing to do with belief and would be a clarification as to whether that was a choice or an obligation. They rephrased it to ask it as you describe but it’s essentially the same question. I can’t see how it would come as any surprise that, if you’ve just admitted that you handed it back voluntarily; could have it back but wouldn’t want to, that there’s nothing really to go at. 
  • jack13jack13 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    Sorry for butting in. I had a f2f which was full of lies. I put a complaint in not expecting anything but received a letter. The serious complaints department as taken over and 2 men are coming out on Thursday. As anyone eles got this for. Im still awaiting if i get enhanced in daily living through reconsideration 
  • jack13jack13 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    The main thing she did wrong is say i have no cognitive diagnosis. I have ME. You have to have cognitive sensory sensitivity to get a diagnosis of ME. She said i see no specialist im under a team of specialist she even as letters from them. She said i don't need help with things because im on mild prescription pain meds. Im in chronic pain and been on 2 lots of painkillers for 18 years she also misgendered me twice.  It was a complete copy and paste report and she had no idea what ME or FND is
  • skullcapskullcap Member - under moderation Posts: 182 Courageous
    ilovecats said:
    Picking up on people who were coping and underplaying their restrictions is one of the few times where I actually felt like I was doing a good job.

    commonly, people saying they are fine going to the toilet but I can see they are in pain sitting down. 

    People who manage their toilet hygiene but actually it’s very painful and they don’t want to admit they cannot do a thorough job is a big one. Makes the difference between 2 / 4 points for activity 5!
    Are you suggesting that everybody who is in pain whilst sitting down must have difficulties with going to the toilet?  Fortunately my assessor did pick up on that particular matter and made reference to it in the 'moving' part of the assessment. Yet she made no mention at the time of the assessment and if she had have done I would have explained that Social Services had actually assessed me as part of an overall assessment of my difficulties and had provided and fitted increased height toilet seats and support frames for each of the three toilets that we have in our home. But by not questioning what she had noticed none of that information had been obtained. The resulting report mentioned nothing regarding those difficulties.
     
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    Again, you can’t prove they lied. You can only prove that there were inaccuracies. It’s a huge difference. 
  • skullcapskullcap Member - under moderation Posts: 182 Courageous


      

    Actually under the circumstances; given their poor training they do fairly well in a small majority of cases at doing exactly that. They are exceptionally poor on mental health and sensory loss but there’s little they can do if people overplay, which is essentially giving dishonest/inaccurate answers.

    If you stated that you’d handed your license back then the next question I think any reasonable person would expect would have nothing to do with belief and would be a clarification as to whether that was a choice or an obligation. They rephrased it to ask it as you describe but it’s essentially the same question. I can’t see how it would come as any surprise that, if you’ve just admitted that you handed it back voluntarily; could have it back but wouldn’t want to, that there’s nothing really to go at. 
    Quite revealing that as for mental health and sensory issues I do wonder if there is any real reason then to want to bother making the case for points in respect of those as whatever you have written down or disclosed at the assessment is likely to be given any real attention by the assessor.
    Your comments regarding the asking of the second question I would dispute. The question that I expected should have been asked was 'why?' The answer from me would have been two fold. One that given the quantity of daily Class A medication I would have been breaking the law if I attempted to sit in the drivers seat never mind drive and secondly I have a health condition that would have rendered my licence invalid if I had not returned it voluntarily. But that question was not asked of me only that if I could physically still drive a car. Consequently the failure to ask the right question did not enlighten the assessor for handing the licence back.
  • FlorineFlorine Member Posts: 38 Connected
    ilovecats said:
    Picking up on people who were coping and underplaying their restrictions is one of the few times where I actually felt like I was doing a good job.

    commonly, people saying they are fine going to the toilet but I can see they are in pain sitting down. 

    People who manage their toilet hygiene but actually it’s very painful and they don’t want to admit they cannot do a thorough job is a big one. Makes the difference between 2 / 4 points for activity 5!

    Clearly they could do with more people like you at the assessors :(
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    I have sadly seen numerous assertions over the years by people who insist they had to give their licence back because of x, y or z. The reality is that you only have to give your licence back in very limited prescribed circumstances. They do not include medications or quantities. It’s based on conditions and they’re all listed on the DVLA site at https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/disability-health-condition.

    The moment you say you voluntarily surrendered then, if your condition is not listed, I’m afraid nothing will be inferred in your favour. 

    If your health condition was listed then there’s nothing voluntary about it. It’s a legal obligation and the HCP would have been misled by such an answer. 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq - even if your condition is on the list it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to give up your licence - just that you have to notify DVLA.

    Sometimes you just fill out a form, sometimes they contact your consultant or ask you to take a test.

    My condition is a notifiable one - DVLA are happy for me to continue driving but I have a 3 year licence. And I can't drive a minibus!
  • skullcapskullcap Member - under moderation Posts: 182 Courageous
    I have sadly seen numerous assertions over the years by people who insist they had to give their licence back because of x, y or z. The reality is that you only have to give your licence back in very limited prescribed circumstances. They do not include medications or quantities. It’s based on conditions and they’re all listed on the DVLA site at https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/disability-health-condition.

    The moment you say you voluntarily surrendered then, if your condition is not listed, I’m afraid nothing will be inferred in your favour. 

    If your health condition was listed then there’s nothing voluntary about it. It’s a legal obligation and the HCP would have been misled by such an answer. 
    I actually handed back my licence as required based on advice from my GP. I have difficult to control Diabetes type 1 along with Epilepsy.
    In addition my blood level will always contain over the prescribed limit of Morphine. The pharmacist told me that I was not to drive and should hand my licence back.
    Both of those reasons were put on the form that I filled in enclosing my licence.
    As such it was a case of voluntary surrendering before it would have been taken off me by the DVLA. Are you suggesting that it would have been better if I killed someone whilst driving and having an attack or maybe if the police tested me for drug driving and was convicted with my licence being taken off me?
    As I have said, the assessor asked the wrong question. It should have been why did I feel it necessary to surrender it. Not if I still had the physical ability to drive albeit illegally.

     
     
  • skullcapskullcap Member - under moderation Posts: 182 Courageous
    cristobal said:

    My condition is a notifiable one - DVLA are happy for me to continue driving but I have a 3 year licence. And I can't drive a minibus!
    You lose the category to drive a mini bus in any event when you reach 70. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    skullcap said:
    I have sadly seen numerous assertions over the years by people who insist they had to give their licence back because of x, y or z. The reality is that you only have to give your licence back in very limited prescribed circumstances. They do not include medications or quantities. It’s based on conditions and they’re all listed on the DVLA site at https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/disability-health-condition.

    The moment you say you voluntarily surrendered then, if your condition is not listed, I’m afraid nothing will be inferred in your favour. 

    If your health condition was listed then there’s nothing voluntary about it. It’s a legal obligation and the HCP would have been misled by such an answer. 
    I actually handed back my licence as required based on advice from my GP. I have difficult to control Diabetes type 1 along with Epilepsy.
    In addition my blood level will always contain over the prescribed limit of Morphine. The pharmacist told me that I was not to drive and should hand my licence back.
    Both of those reasons were put on the form that I filled in enclosing my licence.
    As such it was a case of voluntary surrendering before it would have been taken off me by the DVLA. Are you suggesting that it would have been better if I killed someone whilst driving and having an attack or maybe if the police tested me for drug driving and was convicted with my licence being taken off me?
    As I have said, the assessor asked the wrong question. It should have been why did I feel it necessary to surrender it. Not if I still had the physical ability to drive albeit illegally.
    I think you’re missing two key points here. 

    1 - in the same way that choosing to be sight-impaired says nothing about functional vision so not having a driving license says nothing about the functional abilities associated with driving. Volunteering to be sectioned does not necessarily make your functional abilities different to a person who was compulsorily sectioned. All potentially feed into several descriptors and whether or not you had a choice is literally nothing to the point. The HCP absolutely did not ask the wrong question. You wanted them to focus on why you gave up. They understood perfectly that it didn’t matter. All that mattered was the specific nature of your functional loss. What can’t you do? Could you score points for it? No more complex than that.

    2 - I take great offence at your suggesting I was inferring “that it would have been better if I killed someone whilst driving and having an attack or maybe if the police tested me for drug driving and was convicted with my licence being taken off me?”. Clearly that’s not what was being inferred but equally clearly it also wasn’t what was being discussed. Your response was a classic straw man.

    To deal equally directly with your straw man. Actually, you cannot possibly infer that having those conditions and driving would conclude with death or arrest. As the DVLA site makes crystal clear there are plenty of people with those conditions who retain their license; are legally entitled to do so and who continue to drive safely. A tendency to catastrophise is not a qualifying route for PIP.

    If you choose to give up your license that’s up to you but it’s wholly disconnected from the PIP points you might score. 
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