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Telephone Hearing

OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
edited April 2020 in PIP, DLA and AA
I've just had an email asking for a telephone number for a telephone hearing.  

I don't give out my phone number (or give fake ones) because I find it extremely difficult to use telephones, I don't even allow family members to call me on the telephone unless it's absolutely essential.  Even then I can't usually answer.  

If I can answer the call, I won't be able to stay on the phone for long, presumably they want you to be there for around an hour for the whole thing?

What happens if I can't answer or have to leave part way?

I don't know what to do now.  I'm no longer in a position to attend the court as my conditions have worsened since starting the appeal (not in a way that would affect PIP) and are not likely to improve even after Corona has passed.  I don't have any chance of winning a paper appeal as I don't really have any evidence (ironically, due to me not being able to deal with medical or social situations so virtually no human contact).  So the only option seems to be a telephone hearing or just give up altogether.

Is there a way I can word the email asking them to try 2 or 3 times if I can't answer, and to make sure it's kept as short as possible, without coming across as a ****? :D

Replies

  • dolfrogdolfrog Member Posts: 440 Pioneering
    OverlyAnxious 
    do you know what the underlying cause of your phone phobia is.
    Auditory Processing Disorder, a listening disability or the brain not being effectively able to process the sounds that the ears hear is the cause of my phone phobia. I am not able to process what the person the other end of the phone is saying especially those who for me talk too fast, which for some seems to be part of their training.
    If you have an auditory processing disorder you can have problems processing what others may say, and have verbal self advocacy problems. 
    I was the first adult in the UK to be diagnosed has having auditory processing disorder back in 2003, to help the Medical Research Council gain government funding for a 5 year research program 2004-2009.
    You could have a look at one of my Evernote web pages which tries to explain these issues 
    The Four Types of Auditory Processing Disorder
    https://www.evernote.com/shard/s329/sh/35c143f8-30d8-4b16-81d9-bb9bbd34449f/23638e20a161955c968bedd5bf0e59c9 
    and may be 
    Gaps in Sound - Auditory Gap Detection and Auditory Perception 
    https://www.evernote.com/shard/s329/sh/1c87aa56-9c56-4b25-9849-417d96b86db9/8a2821317cfcc4fe1488acb63fc606a6 

    I hope this helps
  • worried33worried33 Member Posts: 399 Pioneering
    This is one of those lose/lose situations, a paper based appeal has a quite low chance of success, but of course if you try to answer the phone you may just not be able to handle it, or you might be able to get through but then they could use the fact you got through it to argue you dont have mental issues.

    I would be inclined to try and get through the phone process, as I think the paper route is not the way to go.  I dont see any harm in asking the request you want to ask, but if they going to try and call you 2 or 3 times, I expect they wont be too far apart, as they will have an allocated time slot for you.
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks both of you.

    I took your advice @worried33 and did email back on Wednesday evening, providing the number and asking to keep it as brief as possible.  Just have to wait and see what happens now, though I doubt they'll be working until Tuesday next week and probably have a lot of emails to deal with.  Will be cutting it a bit close to the original date of Friday.

    Regarding the phone phobia, there's a lot of components to that one!  It is very likely that I'm on the autism spectrum and potentially have some sort of APD as well.  But I've been refused an ASD diagnosis, let alone anything else in that area.  Also been unable to find any suitable free treatment for my other anxiety disorders so far.  It's also about feeling attacked in my own home (which should be my 'safe' place away from everything else), the unpredictability of the phone being able to ring at any time (unlike email or messenger where I choose when to open them within my daily routine), and the fact that people can't see you're struggling so keep pushing confrontationally until you give some form of audible answer, whereas in real life I can just nod or force a smile.  I also get very nauseous trying to speak, both in real life or on the phone which triggers reflux and makes it physically difficult to speak and keep swallowing.  Of course, the more I do it, the worse it gets, so I've spent most of my life just avoiding speaking...fortunately I'm good with reading & writing instead, but there are some areas of life where this just doesn't work, as I'm sure you've found yourself.  Interestingly, I spent about 12 months totally deaf in one ear and really missed music, but didn't really notice any difference in social situations!  I have regained full hearing now.
  • Hart86Hart86 Member Posts: 394 Pioneering
    This has come around so quick @OverlyAnxious but probably seems like forever for you!! 

    Have you had another look through the descriptors? Without meaning to sound horrible I’m still really concerned you’ve not understood them properly because so many seem to apply to you (from things you’ve said on here) that you just don’t see. I worry you’re going to talk yourself out of an award.

    Please please remember it’s not about the help you get or even the help you’d be able to get, it’s the help you need. 
    For example with cooking, I know you can’t let anyone else prepare your food for you because of your contamination OCD and having people in the house etc, but in terms of the PIP criteria you NEED someone else to do it for you because you can’t regularly and reliably do it for yourself. It doesn’t matter that despite the need, you wouldn’t actually let anyone do it for you.

    Have they said a date or anything? 
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2020
    Hart86 said:
    This has come around so quick @OverlyAnxious but probably seems like forever for you!! 

    Have you had another look through the descriptors? Without meaning to sound horrible I’m still really concerned you’ve not understood them properly because so many seem to apply to you (from things you’ve said on here) that you just don’t see. I worry you’re going to talk yourself out of an award.

    Please please remember it’s not about the help you get or even the help you’d be able to get, it’s the help you need. 
    For example with cooking, I know you can’t let anyone else prepare your food for you because of your contamination OCD and having people in the house etc, but in terms of the PIP criteria you NEED someone else to do it for you because you can’t regularly and reliably do it for yourself. It doesn’t matter that despite the need, you wouldn’t actually let anyone do it for you.

    Have they said a date or anything? 
    Yeah, it was about 6 months since I applied for the tribunal, but just over 12 months since I originally applied for PIP.  Not sure how that compares to the average wait currently!  Of course, if I do win, it'll probably be a 2 year award, and with the next assessment being 6 months before the end, that means I'd have to go through the whole thing again towards the end of this year!

    I am fairly familiar with the descriptors but don't see how I fit any at all really.  I seem to just slip around the edges of most of them.  I'm still aiming for food prep (for the reasons you mention above) and mixing with people.  But I'm unlikely to get 8 points between them and don't really see any others that I fit into.  I know I won't get any mobility as I'm still able to drive to the local supermarkets so it's not worth trying to argue that one until I'm completely housebound.  All I need is standard living to allow me to get SDP and then finally remove the LHA cap on housing benefit so I can afford the rent on a non-shared place.  I don't live alone through choice, it's purely because of my health conditions, so I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.

    The original hearing date was April 17th (this Friday) and another member said they had their telephone hearing at the same time & day as the original so that's what I'm expecting for mine.  I haven't had a confirmation email back yet though, and assuming they're not working today and have others to reply to before me, I don't expect to get a reply until Wednesday really - which will be close to Friday but maybe that's not such a bad thing if I have less time to worry about it...
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    Hi @OverlyAnxious. Have you had any updates as to whether your hearing will be today?
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    Nope. :s 

    Will make sure I've been to the toilet before the original time just in case though! :|
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    edited April 2020
    If it is today, best of luck @OverlyAnxious. Be as honest as you can and try, as others have said, to put the fact you don't have the help (and couldn't accept it) out of your mind. Think about what things you find difficult to do, so would therefore benefit from help, were you able to accept it. 
    if you're able, have another look through the descriptors and try to think about them in a broader sense. 

    Community Manager
    Scope
  • Hart86Hart86 Member Posts: 394 Pioneering
    edited April 2020
    Good luck today @OverlyAnxious!!

    I wouldn’t agree that there are the only two descriptors you should score in. You’re thinking very literally!
    I only know you from stuff you’ve put here but a few areas to look at:

    Taking Nutrition - you’ve said before you’re underweight and need those shake things and you need prompting to take them! 

    Washing and bathing - could you benefit from supervision to help stop the excessive bathing and cleaning? It’s disruptive to your entire day. 

    Do you always dress appropriately for the weather or circumstances? 

    Communicating verbally - please please look into this one more. From things you’ve said you meet a lot of this. 

    Engaging with others - DITTO! 

    Some of the mobility areas you fall into as well. 

    Have you looked at any explanation guides for the descriptors? They’re not always completely black and white 
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,181 Disability Gamechanger
    You can do this @OverlyAnxious - We're all willing you on. Great advice given here, so just adding my very best wishes. :)
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    If it is today, best of luck @OverlyAnxious. Be as honest as you can and try, as others have said, to put the fact you don't have the help (and couldn't accept it) out of your mind. Think about what things you find difficult to do, so would therefore benefit from help, were you able to accept it. 
    if you're able, have another look through the descriptors and try to think about them in a broader sense. 

    You're not gonna believe this...the moment I pressed 'post reply' with a mouthful of crisp, the phone started ringing! :o

    Witheld number...couldn't answer it.  They immediately tried again so I assumed it had to be something tribunal related and forced myself to answer it, not having been to the loo or had a drink, shaking like a sh*tting dog, and wondering how I was going to get through a whole hour on the phone without this afternoons prep and didn't even have the bundle to hand!

    It wasn't the actual tribunal, it was the clerk of the court, saying the judge had decided to award me on paper alone...  And not the standard daily that I was expecting, but enhanced daily!  No mobility, but I didn't expect that at all anyway.  For 3 years (I only expected 2) and backdated for around 10 months.  She said not to expect a phone call at 3pm as it was all sorted - so for anyone else that gets no confirmation, I would continue to assume your phone tribunal will be at the original expected time until you hear otherwise....and expect a phone call earlier on the day...irony is I was specifically eating lunch early to get that out of the way well before the phone call! :D

    I honestly don't know how or why they've done that, especially enhanced, so will be very interesting to see where I've scored the points if they're shown on the letter.  Either way, it certainly wouldn't have happened without the help and advice of everyone on here - @Adrian_Scope @Chloe_Scope @poppy123456 @Hart86 @thespiceman @66Mustang and everyone else so thank you all! :) 

    (Of course, it wouldn't be a post from me without some negativity, so of course the extra money won't change any of my current health issues, but it will now allow me to look for a more suitable flat and potentially some private treatment as well as not having to justify every penny I spend on food & fuel etc!)
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    edited April 2020
    That is brilliant news @OverlyAnxious. I'm really happy for you. What a huge weight off of your shoulders.
    I know it won't change your health but it may lesson some of your stresses which can only be a positive. 
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • Hart86Hart86 Member Posts: 394 Pioneering
    edited April 2020
    OMG yeyyyyy!! 
    I’m so so happy for you @OverlyAnxious!! That’s amazing! 

    Well done for answering and how awesome you won’t have to sit through the whole tribunal either!!  

    Next step, getting your backdated UC for housing element! Let me know if you need any help with it!! 

    I’m absolutely made up for you! 

    As you know I have a lot of similar conditions to you and never fought for mine to be recognised so o had a bit of an invested interested in following your story. I’m just so pleased they’ve acknowledged your struggles!! Hope you’re proud of yourself for fighting!! 

    ❤️
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    Looks like I couldn't type quickly enough! :D  Thanks @chiarieds & @Hart86 :)
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,181 Disability Gamechanger
    Congratulations @OverlyAnxious I'm so pleased to read your great news. :):):)
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,751 Disability Gamechanger
    Fantastic news @OverlyAnxious you can finish your food now in peace! :)
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    Hart86 said:
    Next step, getting your backdated UC for housing element! Let me know if you need any help with it!! 

    I’m absolutely made up for you! 

    As you know I have a lot of similar conditions to you and never fought for mine to be recognised so o had a bit of an invested interested in following your story. I’m just so pleased they’ve acknowledged your struggles!! Hope you’re proud of yourself for fighting!! 
    I'm not on UC yet, still on old ESA, so need to apply for SDP, and then have the LHA cap lifted at the council (I think that's how it works!).  I'm going to assume that means more telephones though lol. 

    Yeah I'm very glad to receive an award, I've been so sure that the last 12 months would all have been a waste of time by the end of today!  As above though, I would never have got any further than the failed F2F without this forum!  

    I'll definitely let you know where I scored the points though...as you seem to know my problems better than I do! :D
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,653 Disability Gamechanger
    Great news @OverlyAnxious!! Really happy for you, must be a big relief!
    Scope

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2020
    worried33 said:
    This is one of those lose/lose situations, a paper based appeal has a quite low chance of success, but of course if you try to answer the phone you may just not be able to handle it, or you might be able to get through but then they could use the fact you got through it to argue you dont have mental issues.

    I would be inclined to try and get through the phone process, as I think the paper route is not the way to go.  I dont see any harm in asking the request you want to ask, but if they going to try and call you 2 or 3 times, I expect they wont be too far apart, as they will have an allocated time slot for you.
    Just started reading this thread and came across this before reading the outcome so apologies if what I’m about to say sounds a but smart alecky/wise after the event. 

    Salaried judges are previewing all cases on the papers and awarding if they think they can do so. However, that’s a preliminary decision without consent and doesn’t stand until the appellant says yes I agree. Originally paper hearings had a success rate of between 5-8% but anecdotally it’s currently 80%+ because of the change of approach.

    It only goes to a telephone hearing if 

    - the appellant disagrees with the paper decision.
    - the tribunal feel they can’t award on the papers alone
    - the tribunal need to dot the i’s and cross the t’s.

    The third of those takes very little time at all. 

    Had @OverlyAnxious opted for a paper hearing the panel would have decided they couldn’t decide it on the papers and proceed as per option 2 above. Thus we now know that asking for a paper hearing in this specific case would have been a waste of time. It was only ever going to happen over the phone.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    I'm not on UC yet, still on old ESA, so need to apply for SDP, and then have the LHA cap lifted at the council (I think that's how it works!).  I'm going to assume that means more telephones though lol. 

    Yeah I'm very glad to receive an award, I've been so sure that the last 12 months would all have been a waste of time by the end of today!  As above though, I would never have got any further than the failed F2F without this forum!  

    I'll definitely let you know where I scored the points though...as you seem to know my problems better than I do! :D
    Hi @OverlyAnxious, that's correct, you should now receive the 1 bed LHA instead of the shared rate I believe you were receiving? This should be backdated to the same date as your PIP.
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2020
    I'm not on UC yet, still on old ESA, so need to apply for SDP, and then have the LHA cap lifted at the council (I think that's how it works!).  I'm going to assume that means more telephones though lol. 

    Yeah I'm very glad to receive an award, I've been so sure that the last 12 months would all have been a waste of time by the end of today!  As above though, I would never have got any further than the failed F2F without this forum!  

    I'll definitely let you know where I scored the points though...as you seem to know my problems better than I do! :D
    Hi @OverlyAnxious, that's correct, you should now receive the 1 bed LHA instead of the shared rate I believe you were receiving? This should be backdated to the same date as your PIP.
    Yep that's right, I am on shared rate currently.  I've been told that both the SDP & housing benefit should all be done automatically now so I shouldn't have to phone for it which is a bonus!  I expect it to take a bit longer than normal under the current circumstances though.

    Can I also just double check that any backpay doesn't count as savings for the first 12 months?  And if so, when does that 12 months start?  I assume the back pay will be separate from PIP, SDP & housing and it will put me over £6k of savings (if my rough maths is correct!).  So does the 12 months start from the first payment, or the last, or whichever puts me over £6k?  Or something else? 

    Also, where does PIP get paid?  I honestly can't remember if I've already given bank details for it on the original form?  Or do they use the same account as ESA?
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    Hi @OverlyAnxious
    SDP has to be applied for, so you may need to call ESA. Where did you hear it was being done automatically?

    The backpay is disregarded for 12 months from when you receive it. PIP will be paid into the account specified on application (but most people receive a phone call to confirm bank details). SDP backpay will be paid by ESA (and then included with your ESA payments). And housing will come from housing benefit. 
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @OverlyAnxious
    SDP has to be applied for, so you may need to call ESA. Where did you hear it was being done automatically?

    The backpay is disregarded for 12 months from when you receive it. PIP will be paid into the account specified on application (but most people receive a phone call to confirm bank details). SDP backpay will be paid by ESA (and then included with your ESA payments). And housing will come from housing benefit. 
    It says SDP is automatic on the .gov website here, unless I've misunderstood.  https://www.gov.uk/disability-premiums/how-to-claim

    Thanks for info on bank accounts, I have switched one since starting the application so it might have been that one lol.  Everything should be redirected anyway though, all other payments were moved successfully.  

    Still not 100% sure on the backpay though, so I'll try to explain my question a bit better.  Say I receive the PIP backpay in May, and then the Housing backpay in July...does the 12 months end the next May or the next July?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    @OverlyAnxious the link you have posted is for the Disability Premium not the SDP. Two different things. You need to call and ask for an ESA10. There may be considerable delays getting through at present but I honestly don't know. Varies from day to day hugely depending on staffing levels. 

    In some cases staff will process SDP whilst you're on the phone but given current pressures... who knows. 

  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    Hi @OverlyAnxious. As Mike said you need to apply for SDP unfortunately. You can often do this on the phone but you can request they send you the form. 

    With regard to back pay, my understanding is that the amount you receive from each individual benefit will be disregarded for 12 months/52 weeks from when you receive it. So if you get PIP in May and HB in July, the amount you receive from PIP will be disregarded for 52 weeks from the date you receive it and HB for 52 weeks from when you receive that. 
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2020
    Hmm, that's very misleading on the .gov site then.  That's the only page about claiming disability premiums, if you look at the previous page it shows the eligibility for DP, SDP & EDP.  

    https://www.gov.uk/disability-premiums/eligibility

    It doesn't say anywhere how to claim SDP or EDP specifically or that the process would be different from DP.  How would anyone know to do it without a checking somewhere like this forum? 

    Thanks for the clarification on backpay.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m not sure not mentioning it at all counts as “misleading”. They don’t mention it because, unlike other premiums, it exists across numerous benefits so there never could be one definitive claim process. 

    FWIW gov.uk is a poor source of information and I would never recommend it. A quick search for “claim SDP” or similar solves your problem.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    It isn't particularly clear, I agree @OverlyAnxious
    Unfortunately as @mikehughescq said, when it comes to reliable information particularly with regards to benefits, Gov isn't the best source. 

    Have you managed to give ESA a call? 
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    Fair enough, I always assumed the Gov site was the best one to trust as it's direct from the source lol!  Will know now for future reference. :) 

    I haven't phoned them, no.  After the tribunal call I was really quite ill for a few days and don't want to repeat that.  I've read a few posts saying people were sent letters/forms in the post after the ESA system had been updated so I'll just hope & wait for that.  I have also read that I can post them a change of circumstances so may have to do that if not, I did buy a few stamps before lockdown and there's plenty of postboxes around here.  I know most people take phones for granted and it seems daft that I can't use them - but equally in the internet age I don't really see why anything can't just be updated online now.

  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,001

    Scope community team

    I'm sorry to read how ill you were after the tribunal call @OverlyAnxious. It doesn't seem daft at all that you have difficulties with phone calls. I know a lot of people who are similar and if I'm honest, it's an area that causes me a great deal of anxiety too. I'll always look for any other option before making a call and I've missed out on plenty of things over the years because a phone call was listed as the only option.
    I agree entirely - there should be a wider range of ways to apply or report changes and offering the option of doing things online seems a logical next step where possible.
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2020
    Fair enough, I always assumed the Gov site was the best one to trust as it's direct from the source lol!  Will know now for future reference. :) 
    Frankly it IS ridiculous that gov.uk is not a source to be trusted but it’s very poor and they seem to be driven by a conviction that less is more.
  • MangyWolfMangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    The problem with everything to do with benefits is that the government / DWP as the source are never trust worthy, and even lass so are capita or Atos.

    I will never be agreeing to a face to face assessment again until they are video recorded. If it's not recorded or you don't take a witness, you are screwed no matter what you say.
  • MangyWolfMangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    Also on this note of telephone anxiety, I personally haven't ever been able to speak to anyone for non essential things on the phone. I've never phoned a family member or friends, and never accept social or casual calls. I've also never phoned for a taximand always ask for email or text communication. However even if someday this became a benefits descriptor, they would probably still say 'you can have telephone appointments for doctors / benefits so zero points'. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    MangyWolf said:
    The problem with everything to do with benefits is that the government / DWP as the source are never trust worthy, and even lass so are capita or Atos.

    I will never be agreeing to a face to face assessment again until they are video recorded. If it's not recorded or you don't take a witness, you are screwed no matter what you say.
    Not sure it’s a matter of whether they’re trustworthy. Organisations are as trustworthy as you want them to be. Even the Work and Pensions committee, overseeing one of the largest set of claimant submissions in history, concluded there were issues with a significant minority i.e. the majority, even if it’s only a small majority, are fine. 

    Now, that’s obviously nowhere near good enough but if an organisation is untrustworthy then you couldn’t trust it on anything whereas DWP get things right just about most of the time. Overall I’d go with unreliable rather than untrustworthy. Poor processes and lack of oversight rather than conspiracy theories. 

    Sadly you’re going to have a long wait for video recording. Pilots were mooted 2 years ago but they’ve not got off the ground and likely never will. Video recording is simply inappropriate for so many health conditions. 

    Audio recording can arguably help but I’d say not. The reality is that recordings have only helped when people have submitted them as evidence for appeals i.e. they certainly didn’t improve initial decisions nor mandatory reconsiderations. Is the problem the lack of a witness or just the over focus on the HCP assessment by both claimants and DWP? The people who want to record these things are fed by paranoia which might be their own health but could equally be argued to be wholly or partly media fed. It’s the same focus which leads them to want everything documented but totally forget to document their own incidents performing each activity. 

    Claimants can go all the way to appeal and not know what it is they’ve claimed. No idea  what the claim pack wants (because DWP notes are dreadful) and no idea what evidence to submit. Note that I didn’t say medical evidence there. Most claimants still refer to and challenge the HCP process like it’s a medical when it’s nothing of the sort.

    In other words the issue is not the lack of a witness but the focus put on a poor quality face to face process by knowing that DWP culturally wholly rely upon it but not realising that tribunals do not.
  • MangyWolfMangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    edited April 2020
    The point of a video recording isn't for evidence of medical conditions, it's to stop the HCPs making everything up. If they haven't been recorded giving you a physical assessment, then they can't claim to have given you one and make up perfect results all the time. It doesn't need to be mandatory for all assessments, but available for those that feel the need to have it during their assessment, or simply let the claimants record using whatever they want!

    If I can't even video record my assessment on my phone, then there's no point to me going for one again.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    MangyWolf said:
    The point of a video recording isn't for evidence of medical conditions, it's to stop the HCPs making everything up. If they haven't been recorded giving you a physical assessment, then they can't claim to have given you one and make up perfect results all the time. It doesn't need to be mandatory for all assessments, but available for those that feel the need to have it during their assessment, or simply let the claimants record using whatever they want!

    If I can't even video record my assessment on my phone, then there's no point to me going for one again.
    I didn’t say it was for evidence of medical conditions. I talked about appropriateness. Many people don’t want to be videod. Many people can’t cope with seeing the,selves on video and so on. 

    However, my point is that it doesn’t stop anyone making anything up at all. We already know this because people request audio recordings or do them covertly and the discrepancy between what is said and what is recorded remains. Thus people still end up doing MR and appeals. 

    They get to appeal and most times the audio doesn’t even get listened to simply because, as numerous threads on here attest, most tribunals need little help identifying obvious flaws in HCP reports and simply don’t need audio or video to do that. They move rapidly on to your own anecdotal evidence.

    So, if it doesn’t stop that discrepancy between what’s said and written and tribunals don’t need them... there’s not a lot of point. 
  • MangyWolfMangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    edited April 2020
    While it might not help or need to help for the appeal, it would help if you are also wanting to complain through ICE and potentially press further for a case of clinical negligence, something which I still want to do. It would also help when submitting an initial complaint to the health assessment company as the main thing they will dismiss complaints on is not having any evidence.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 2020
    It’s of no relevance to an ICE enquiry because their focus is solely on (mal)administration. Did DWP do what they were supposed to do at the point they were supposed to do it? 

    You can’t bring a claim of clinical negligence because you’re not the patient of an HCP and they’ve no responsibility for diagnosis or treatment.

    Yes you could use it for a complaint to an assessment provider but to what end? At best they’ll either recommend additional points (and that’s all it is, a recommendation) or send you for... another assessment. 
  • MangyWolfMangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    edited April 2020
    I guess I'm just still naive and think there's something more that can be done with such evidence. Personally I won't even attend another assessment if I cannot record it with consent.

    Maybe clinical negligence isn't a thing that applies for this but deprivation of capital would be.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m sorry but there’s no deprivation of capital here. PIP is a 4 weekly payment i.e. an income. Being turned down for PIP is not grounds for multiple legal fronts to be opened other than in the most extraordinary circumstances and this is not that. 
  • MangyWolfMangyWolf Posts: 40 Member
    I’m sorry but there’s no deprivation of capital here. PIP is a 4 weekly payment i.e. an income. Being turned down for PIP is not grounds for multiple legal fronts to be opened other than in the most extraordinary circumstances and this is not that. 
    My case was deprivation of capital - I had it and they lied to stop it. If I had an actual recording I would be able to get compensation for damages for both my gardens dying due to losing the money I should have had, and also loans repaid.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    So completely off topic then!
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm not sure gardens dying is a priority of the DWP when some people can't afford to eat or heat...but let's bring this back on topic... :D  

    For anyone in a similar position and wondering about timescales, I've received my PIP backpay already (just 2 weeks after tribunal!) and first PIP payment will be the end of May.  Probably different across the country but it might be helpful as a guide.  SDP & LHA lifting is the next step now...

    I've just checked the local council site to see if I can make the change of circumstances for LHA on there.  I've done rent increases on there before without issue.  I couldn't find a specific tickbox for SDP or LHA, but was surprised to see that they know I'm in receipt of PIP already!  I thought it'd take a while for all the systems to update.  So given that DWP systems must all have updated, how likely is it that they'll send me the 'offer' of SDP via post now?  I've seen several other posts mention it but none particularly recently and none that say how long it took between the award and the SDP letter.  Has anyone recently received a letter regarding SDP?  I know most people phone up immediately so I appreciate it's not likely to be many.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    You have to claim SDP. There’s nothing automatic about it at all.
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    You have to claim SDP. There’s nothing automatic about it at all.
    You have to claim SDP. There’s nothing automatic about it at all.

    I'm not disputing that, but some people seem to have been sent the claim forms after a PIP win instead of having to phone for them.  Generally people that didn't even know they were entitled to SDP.

    Annoyingly I can't find the most informative post I saw again now, sods law, but this one certainly seems to mention it - 

    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-esa-queries-results/105779-received-letter-about-severe-disability-premium
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    Yeah. That’s a thread from 4 years ago!!! I’m afraid things don’t stay the same in social security for more than a week at present they haven’t for a long long time. SDP is payable in 4 means-tested benefits so there’s no 1 claim process. You need to make a call. 

    We also live in a world where the government want you on UC so no-one is actively going to promote SDP as it’s a route to avoid UC until managed migration. 
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,438 Disability Gamechanger
    Got the letter offering me SDP this morning.  Patience is a virtue haha!



    So, hopefully the last question on this for a while...does housing benefit automatically update to the next tier of LHA when SDP is in place or is there another process to go through for that?  If they need to be notified, what exactly do I ask for?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    Well that’s a nice illustration of the issues around consistency at present. Basically it’s a lottery. Without putting a timescale on this I’ve had 3 cases recently where 1 got the letter and 2 did not. Go figure.
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