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PIP Issues

Jamesd49
Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
Hi 

I applied for PIP in February 2018. 

Due to various issues with me filling out forms and assessments been cancelled. 

I finally had my phone assessment on 14th April 2020. 

After the assessment I was not happy with the phone call, I was concerned the person wasn't listening and had misheard me on things.

Due to issues with me being ill I never filled out my book or provided further evidence such as medical reports. 

After the phone call on the 14th April, I rang the DWP and said I would still like to present my book and evidence, they said that was fine and they would put a note on my file. 

They told me very clearly that my PIP would not be assessed until I had provided my book or further evidence. 

They sent me an envelope which I only received a few days. 

I received a letter today, dated 21st April, with the outcome to my PIP assessment. I failed. 

Shock the person failed to write in the report half the stuff I said and the report isn't a true reflection on the call and what was discussed.

What is the best way to move forward? 

Clearly the DWP lied, they told me in a very clear and straightforward way they would wait for my evidence before reviewing my account. 

I don't think I had even received my envelope by the time they posted the outcome. 

Thanks
James 

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Comments

  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    I have just spent over an hour on the phone to PIP trying to get help. 

    Their phone service is so difficult to use, I have autism so struggle with communication. I am left feeling so update. 

    The call centre advisor told me that nothing can be done other than a mandatory consideration. 

    Then I spoke a case manager who said because it was their fault, they can review it again before it goes to a mandatory consideration. 

    So I am not sure what is happening, as every person I spoke to has said something different. 


  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    They had no obligation to wait for your evidence but they’re correct. There’s nothing to stop them looking again.
  • charlotte441
    charlotte441 Member Posts: 45 Connected
    @Jamesd49 they do lie and don’t write half the stuff down I agree! they just don’t expect you to go in for a MR or a appeal ..... just don’t give up! three people I no was going to go to tribunal the DWP contacted two of them to say they have been awarded it a few days before there appeal hearing and the third person went and it went in her favour and she got 10.6K backdated as it went in her favour. but that’s not the case for everyone. so be mindful. good luck 
  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    They had no obligation to wait for your evidence but they’re correct. There’s nothing to stop them looking again.
    Surly they do, when they told me in a very clear way - we will not look at your claim till you provide all the evidence. You would sort of expect them do that. 
  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    @Jamesd49 they do lie and don’t write half the stuff down I agree! they just don’t expect you to go in for a MR or a appeal ..... just don’t give up! three people I no was going to go to tribunal the DWP contacted two of them to say they have been awarded it a few days before there appeal hearing and the third person went and it went in her favour and she got 10.6K backdated as it went in her favour. but that’s not the case for everyone. so be mindful. good luck 
    Thank you, I am UC and have had no end of their lies, been sworn at down the phone and all sorts. 

    I told them I was concerned about having a phone interview as I struggle, hence why as soon as the call ended I rang up the DWP and said I wanted to present extra evidence and they said no worries we will wait for your evidence and then look. 

    Clearly they didn't. 

    For me I got told two different bits of info today, how am I meant to know who to trust within the DWP/PIP. Surly everybody should be on the same page. 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    Jamesd49 said:
    They had no obligation to wait for your evidence but they’re correct. There’s nothing to stop them looking again.
    Surly they do, when they told me in a very clear way - we will not look at your claim till you provide all the evidence. You would sort of expect them do that. 
    You spoke to someone in a call centre. It’s highly likely they don’t even work for DWP. There’s a legal principle that nothing said by another can bind a decision maker. It’s been the case since at least 1966 so, yes, they are correct. The decision maker absolutely was not bound to wait for anything. 
  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    Jamesd49 said:
    They had no obligation to wait for your evidence but they’re correct. There’s nothing to stop them looking again.
    Surly they do, when they told me in a very clear way - we will not look at your claim till you provide all the evidence. You would sort of expect them do that. 
    You spoke to someone in a call centre. It’s highly likely they don’t even work for DWP. There’s a legal principle that nothing said by another can bind a decision maker. It’s been the case since at least 1966 so, yes, they are correct. The decision maker absolutely was not bound to wait for anything. 
    Well I rang the DWP PIP number, so I would hope to speak to somebody within the DWP. 

    I am really not sure why your commenting? You just seem to be criticising everything I say and not actually offering any advice or anything 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    edited April 2020
    Jamesd49 said

    Well I rang the DWP PIP number, so I would hope to speak to somebody within the DWP. 

    I am really not sure why your commenting? You just seem to be criticising everything I say and not actually offering any advice or anything 
    There are 2 levels within DWP call responses - 1 and 2. Level 1 is outsourced whilst level 2 generally isn’t. So, for example, if you were on DLA and had to make a call to start a claim for PIP your call could be to PIP or a company acting on behalf of PIP. Same with the Pension Service. Some calls are taken in house and some are not. It’s been this way for around 20 years or more. They won’t tell you which they are because they don’t consider it relevant. There are occasionally ways to tell but only occasionally. 

    I’m commenting because you asked if they could do what they did and what the best way forward is. I’ve answered both those points - yes they can, and, the best way forward is a further challenge.

    After that then it was actually you who asked me further questions and challenged me. So, I’ve answered those too. 
  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    Anybody else got any advice for my PIP issues 
  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    Anybody else got any advice for my PIP issues 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 12,265 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Jamesd49 - I'm sorry to read about the problems that you've had, & the mixed messages you've received when ringing. As you have only got 1 month, usually, from the date on your PIP decision letter in which to apply for a Mandatory Reconsideration, perhaps go with that. This would be best done in writing, so long as you put your name & NI number on each sheet. It might be easier for you to explain the difficulties you face this way, as you said you struggled with talking on the phone.
    Concentrate on any activities you have problems with detailing why, & give a couple of examples (at the time of your assessment) saying what happened, how did you feel at the time/afterwards; could you do the activity safely, or if you just couldn't do it. Have a look at the following link which shows the different activities (descriptors), & the points that may be gained.
    For many this is just something that has to be completed before facing a tribunal, as less than 1 in 5 are successful. The outcome with tribunals is much more favourable.
    Hope some of this helps. :)

  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    chiarieds said:
    Hi @Jamesd49 - I'm sorry to read about the problems that you've had, & the mixed messages you've received when ringing. As you have only got 1 month, usually, from the date on your PIP decision letter in which to apply for a Mandatory Reconsideration, perhaps go with that. This would be best done in writing, so long as you put your name & NI number on each sheet. It might be easier for you to explain the difficulties you face this way, as you said you struggled with talking on the phone.
    Concentrate on any activities you have problems with detailing why, & give a couple of examples (at the time of your assessment) saying what happened, how did you feel at the time/afterwards; could you do the activity safely, or if you just couldn't do it. Have a look at the following link which shows the different activities (descriptors), & the points that may be gained.
    For many this is just something that has to be completed before facing a tribunal, as less than 1 in 5 are successful. The outcome with tribunals is much more favourable.
    Hope some of this helps. :)

    Thanks for your reply. I am not doing a MR first, they are reviewing it again then I can do a MR if needed. 

    Thanks 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    If they’re reviewing it again then that effectively is an MR. That’s important to know because, if needs be, it means you could go straight to appeal if you wished. However, you can do as many MRs as you want. Unfortunately the success rate for an MR remains at 16%.
  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    If they’re reviewing it again then that effectively is an MR. That’s important to know because, if needs be, it means you could go straight to appeal if you wished. However, you can do as many MRs as you want. Unfortunately the success rate for an MR remains at 16%.
    Well it's not a MR Mike. Because of their error they are reviewing it again with my book. 

    No you can't it's only one MR. 

    Then an MR then I can go to tribunal if need to. 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    I’m sorry but that’s wholly incorrect. No. matter who initiates it any review which takes place within a month of the original decision is an MR. If you look at the legislation you’ll find no reference to MR because legally it’s just an any grounds revision. If you look at that same legislation you will find nothing within it which restricts you to one bite of the cherry. This is especially important because of course you can do a late MR up to 13 months after the original decision. 

    Feel free to look at the original legislation at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/381/contents/made

    You’ll see no mention of MR, just any grounds revision. You’ll also see nothing which it’s only an MR if you do it - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/381/regulation/5/made  could not be more explicit on the point - and nothing which limits you to one go. 




  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    I’m sorry but that’s wholly incorrect. No. matter who initiates it any review which takes place within a month of the original decision is an MR. If you look at the legislation you’ll find no reference to MR because legally it’s just an any grounds revision. If you look at that same legislation you will find nothing within it which restricts you to one bite of the cherry. This is especially important because of course you can do a late MR up to 13 months after the original decision. 

    Feel free to look at the original legislation at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/381/contents/made

    You’ll see no mention of MR, just any grounds revision. You’ll also see nothing which it’s only an MR if you do it - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/381/regulation/5/made  could not be more explicit on the point - and nothing which limits you to one go. 




    Once again your wrong, I read another thread today about PIP which you was wrong in and somebody corrected you and you was adamant you was right when you wasn't. Clearly you don't understand the rules and your telling people the wrong info. 

    I have three stages to my appeal - 
    1 - A review because they made a mistake
    2 - A MR
    3 - A tribunal. 

    You can only have one MR. 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    Sorry @Jamesd49 I don’t wish to cause you any distress but I’m quite comfortable holding my ground on this. I’ve posted a link to the law. I work with social security law every day of my working life. You are absolutely welcome to point out where the law says I am wrong.

    Your case is being reviewed under 5(1)(a) of the above regs i.e. a review initiated by the Secretary of State. It’s an MR. Regardless, you have a right to a review under 5(1)(b) which is also an MR. 

    You can go do as many MRs as you want as the legislation does nothing to prevent that. 

    Once the Secretary of State has done their MR you can go straight to appeal if you wish without doing a further MR. This is clearly allowed by 7(1)(b) - see https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/381/regulation/7/made

    As regards other threads I’ve no idea which one you’re talking about. 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 12,265 Disability Gamechanger
    Whilst I would wish your comments to be correct about this, as you'd been given conflicting 'advice' recently when you rang, I can only endorse that asking for your claim to be looked at again likely 'triggers' a MR.
    Case managers do sometimes ask more questions, I personally found, to find out more about an initial claim. In my case, I had to go to another assessment, & go through it all again soon after. If this isn't the case, then, as @mikehughescq has said, you're most likely to be at the MR stage. Altho I don't have his knowledge, my response earlier today was because I also thought you'd be going down the MR route.
    No-one probably 'gets it right' all of the time on such a forum as this, as everyone's situation is different, which is why members are often advised to seek local advice, etc. On the balance of probabilities, I would very much doubt mikehughes has given you incorrect advice.
    You could ring the PIP enquiry line to confirm what stage you're at perhaps.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,845 Connected
    LOL. On the “balance of probabilities” it’s spelt out unequivocally in the links to the legislation I posted. DWP won’t call it an MR but that dues to mean it isn’t. 
  • Jamesd49
    Jamesd49 Posts: 147 Connected
    Sorry @Jamesd49 I don’t wish to cause you any distress but I’m quite comfortable holding my ground on this. I’ve posted a link to the law. I work with social security law every day of my working life. You are absolutely welcome to point out where the law says I am wrong.

    Your case is being reviewed under 5(1)(a) of the above regs i.e. a review initiated by the Secretary of State. It’s an MR. Regardless, you have a right to a review under 5(1)(b) which is also an MR. 

    You can go do as many MRs as you want as the legislation does nothing to prevent that. 

    Once the Secretary of State has done their MR you can go straight to appeal if you wish without doing a further MR. This is clearly allowed by 7(1)(b) - see https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/381/regulation/7/made

    As regards other threads I’ve no idea which one you’re talking about. 
    Once again your wrong, I believe you do it on purpose to annoy and wind people up. 

    I feel bad for who you work with and your clients. 

    No you can't, I have checked numerous websites and they all say 1 MR. So I would trust them over you. 

    I can easily find this thread where you was telling people the wrong info 
This discussion has been closed.

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