PIP, DLA and AA
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Is this true?

DizerDizer Member Posts: 2 Listener
edited May 2020 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi everybody,  I have been on DLA for many years. Last summer I was told I had to move to PIP. I applied Sept 2019 and had my assessment in Feb 2020. I was pleased to receive my award letter today and my payments will be increased by quite a bit. However  my award doesn't start until June 3rd. I was told months ago that my claim would be backdated, but on my letter it states that by law, my award can only start 4 weeks after the decision on my award has been made. This does not make any sense to me. If this is true it means that the longer you are made to wait, the more money you can miss out on. Does anyone have any advice or information that might help? Thank you and kind regards 

Replies

  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,965 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Dizer - Welcome to the community, & thank you for joining. As you 'migrated' from DLA to PIP, your DLA will continue until 2nd June, & your PIP then starts from 3rd June. I'm pleased to read that with PIP your benefit amount has increased, but, for some people, they get a lesser award, or none at all. The 4 week period is to allow people in the latter group, when their DLA would continue for that time period only, & would then end, to 'adjust' financially.
    So, unfortunately, you're not due any backdated monies as you've continued to receive DLA whilst your PIP claim went ahead.
    If someone, who hadn't been on DLA, made a claim for PIP, & was awarded, then this is backdated to the date of their claim. This isn't what has happened in your case, so I'm hoping this helps explain. :)
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,977 Disability Gamechanger
    The 4 week “gap” is actually because PIP is paid 4 weeks in arrears.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Welcome to the community @Dizer! Is there anything else we can do to help?

    Also, feel free have a chat in our coffee lounge with other members!
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    Scope

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  • DizerDizer Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Hi, Over the 30 weeks I waited for them to make a decision I was told several times it would be backdated. I still do not understand why they don’t backdate it, but deduct the money from DLA I have been paid in the meantime. When they make the decision, it is awarded using the information from when I  sent in the application in. They are then saying that I deserved to get more benefit from 30 weeks ago, but I am going to lose that money because they took over 24 weeks to arrange an assessment for me. They could be saving a lot of money by taking a long time to process applications. At the very least there should be a set number of weeks that they are allowed to take. They also should not tell applicants they will have there claim backdated if this isn’t true. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,977 Disability Gamechanger
    1 - historically no disability benefits like AA, DLA or PIP allow backdating. Backdating is when you backdate the date of claim to a date earlier than when the form went in. What you’re talking about is not backdating. It’s payment of arrears back to the date of claim. 

    2 - you converted from DLA to PIP. Whilst you were waiting for your PIP decision you continued to receive DLA. As PIP replaces DLA you cannot ever receive both at the same time. Thus you cannot receive a penny of PIP for any day you already had DLA.

    3 - 2 applies even if your PIP award turned out to be higher than your DLA award. You still can’t get PIP for any day you get DLA. 

    4 - the 4 week wait does not usually lose you money. DLA was paid 2 weeks forward and 2 weeks back. So a payment on the 1st of June would be for 2 weeks in May and 2 weeks in June. 

    PIP is paid 4 weeks in arrears so a payment made on the 1st of June would be for all of May. So, if you were awarded PIP from the 10th of June you couldn’t get any until the 16th as your DLA would have already been paid to the 15th. Thus you’d get a small lump sum to cover to the 10th of July and your 1st payment of 4 weeks in arrears would start on the 15th of August. You’ve not lost anything. Your pay,ENT dates and periods have changed. 

    5 - if you’d never had DLA and claimed PIP in September 19 then any award would pay arrears back to the date of claim i.e. September 19.

    However, you did have DLA and continued to receive it after you claimed PIP right up until PIP was awarded. Therefore PIP cannot possibly pay you anything for a period when you still get DLA.

    6 - when you talk to DWP on the oho e you could be talking to DWP or private staff. Either way you’re not talking to decision majestic or anyone trained in the law. You cannot accept what they say. They are simply call centre staff with scripts.
  • atlas47atlas47 Member Posts: 118 Pioneering
    Hi @Dizer

    A very warm welcome.

    Just to reiterate the sound advice you have been given on this thread.

    I applied for PIP (was on DLA, middle care & higher mobility).

    My claim took over 12 months to process, due to logjams at DWP.

    I was awarded enhanced components for both, no backpay!

    Stay kind and be safe.

    Best wishes
  • FetlockFetlock Member Posts: 79 Courageous
    1 - historically no disability benefits like AA, DLA or PIP allow backdating. Backdating is when you backdate the date of claim to a date earlier than when the form went in. What you’re talking about is not backdating. It’s payment of arrears back to the date of claim. 

    2 - you converted from DLA to PIP. Whilst you were waiting for your PIP decision you continued to receive DLA. As PIP replaces DLA you cannot ever receive both at the same time. Thus you cannot receive a penny of PIP for any day you already had DLA.

    3 - 2 applies even if your PIP award turned out to be higher than your DLA award. You still can’t get PIP for any day you get DLA. 

    4 - the 4 week wait does not usually lose you money. DLA was paid 2 weeks forward and 2 weeks back. So a payment on the 1st of June would be for 2 weeks in May and 2 weeks in June. 

    PIP is paid 4 weeks in arrears so a payment made on the 1st of June would be for all of May. So, if you were awarded PIP from the 10th of June you couldn’t get any until the 16th as your DLA would have already been paid to the 15th. Thus you’d get a small lump sum to cover to the 10th of July and your 1st payment of 4 weeks in arrears would start on the 15th of August. You’ve not lost anything. Your pay,ENT dates and periods have changed. 

    5 - if you’d never had DLA and claimed PIP in September 19 then any award would pay arrears back to the date of claim i.e. September 19.

    However, you did have DLA and continued to receive it after you claimed PIP right up until PIP was awarded. Therefore PIP cannot possibly pay you anything for a period when you still get DLA.

    6 - when you talk to DWP on the oho e you could be talking to DWP or private staff. Either way you’re not talking to decision majestic or anyone trained in the law. You cannot accept what they say. They are simply call centre staff with scripts.

    Sorry need to address this Mike, as, having worked in environments which have call centres, I find your dismissive attitute to call centre workers quite offensive.
    Those "simply" call centre staff may be doing that role with disabilities themseves. They may be doing the role having fallen on bad times, or because the hours suit them for reasons of managing their disability, childcare or caring commitments, or because they're fitting in studying. Lots of reasons why "simply" call centre workers work in call centres.
    And many of them I encountered were very well educated. Former teachers, solicitors, one who had qualified as a barrister even and working in an IT call centre, social workers, nurses.
    These call centre workers you refer to as "simply call centre staff" are also contributing to keeping many essential services going right now for us all through this epidemic, hence why they have essential worker status, and with no choice but to brave public transport daily and sit in an office with others, instead of sitting at home like many others can do, very safe in comparison.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,977 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2020
    A great heartfelt rant @Fetlock but a complete misinterpretation of a comment aimed at the weaknesses of a process not the people delivering it. Also based on a major assumption about my knowledge of call centres, which is way off. 

    To reiterate. You ring a DWP number assuming you will get DWP staff and assuming a high level of knowledge (because after all they supposedly are the DWP!). The reality is you’re mostly going to an outsourced call centre where training is around scripts; access to internal DWP IT systems is very limited and staff will literally have zero knowledge of the law. They are simply not trained on it.

    Therefore, any advice given needs to be viewed in the context that 

    - it is unlikely to be from DWP.
    - it won’t be from a decision maker.
    - it may be from someone with no (or very limited) access to your case onscreen. 
    - such call centres have scripts which assume simple questions but the context in which they operate is anything but. UC is complex. Legacy benefits are complex. Disability benefits are complex. 

    Thus the word “simply” is a description of the role and not a comment upon it or why people do it.

    I know full well why people do it and the varied circumstances in which they do it. I work next to an office which has contained multiple call centres over the years run by my employer and indeed have recruited from them. None of that has anything to do with the fact that, in this discussion, the point was that people with a script to answer basic (“where is my case right now?: type) questions cannot (and should not attempt to) answer questions off script. 

    Unfortunately call centre work routinely involves significant disempowerment. People grab back power and control in different ways. My experience is that staff contracted to DWP often exceed their remit by advising on matters well outside of it. Whether or not arrears will be paid is a legal issue and cannot be advised on by someone in a call centre unless they can see a screen which says “you will be paid x amount on date y for period z”.

    As this case we know that it’s a DLA to PIP conversion so that kind of information will never have existed on a screen anywhere in the system. I know enough of said systems to know it won’t have existed either momentarily or in error. Thus, in this instance we can categorically say someone went totally off script and beyond their remit. They decided their role was not confined to simply updating on a case and consequently misled someone to the extent they’ve needed to come on a forum to even begin to get an idea that “DWP” might have misled them.

    I could list other examples of how such disempowerment is potentially disaster OJ’s again and again. As recently as this week a colleague was told by someone in an ESA call centre that a claimant should claim UC because they would always be better off (not true) and another told that managed migration to UC would definitely be starting in January 2021. MM has been delayed to 2024 and the OBR predict 2026.

    Ideologically I am opposed to outsourcing of any kind of customer service. It’s a nonsense where complexity is involved. That doesn’t disrespect the people who deliver such services. It’s “simply” a recognition that the process they find themselves in the midst of inevitably produces lousy results for users of the service. 

    Finally, could I politely suggest that it would help me and others if you only quoted the relevant sentence rather than the whole post.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,926

    Scope community team

    Hello @Fetlock.
    I'm sorry you felt Mike's comment regarding call centre staff was offensive. I see your point and why you feel that way, but I don't think it is how the comment was intended.
    I believe what Mike was trying to explain was that the call handler is not a decision maker. They don't have the ability to make decisions regarding benefits or back pay, so even if they say back pay should be awarded, they don't have the authority to make it happen. 

    That's not to disparage them, obviously! As you say, they are an essential service and no doubt work incredibly hard. 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

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  • dolfrogdolfrog Member Posts: 440 Pioneering
    edited May 2020
    Hi @Adrian_Scope,

    The problem is scripted robots who have no understanding of the real issues, and who are not able to act as fellow humans and answer questions or even speak slow enough for most to understand what has been said. 
    We are now living in a society run by robots, most of whom talk too fast for those who share my communication disability, all part of their corrupt training i suppose.  

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,977 Disability Gamechanger
    dolfrog said:
    Hi @Adrian_Scope,

    The problem is scripted robots who have no understanding of the real issues, and who are not able to act as fellow humans and answer questions or even speak slow enough for most to understand what has been said. 
    We are now living in a society run by robots, most of whom talk too fast for those who share my communication disability, all part of their corrupt training i suppose.  

    I couldn’t disagree more. You can’t possibly understand the “real issues” if you don’t receive the training and don’t get access to relevant systems. It’s like criticising medical professionals for being ill when they’ve not been given PPE!
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,965 Disability Gamechanger
    I couldn't agree more with you @mikehughescq. Unfortunately dolfrog also considers, in his words, 'so-called medical professionals' totally inadequate in the UK as they don't understand his disorder he feels....they're 'corrupt', etc.
    We have crossed swords a few times, as he gives links to his 'paper-based medical research'. These are usually to abstracts, & the odd full paper, on PubMed, a medical database, which anyone can use should they wish, & get more up to date & relevant info.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,977 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2020
    It’s difficult isn’t it @chiarieds. People in pain tend to attack the person they perceive as not helping them rather than the process. People employed in the midst of those processes tend to feel they’re under attack rather than the process.

    [Removed by moderator]

    Similarly, people rant about how no-one “understands” their condition. It’s never better illustrated than when someone who patently does understand their condition, such as the person trained to perhaps diagnose and/or treat it, dares to comment on it. I genuinely struggle when people talk about HCPs not “understanding” their condition. It is almost certain that a significant number of HCPs absolutely will understand the condition. However, it’s also illustrative of the fact that most people don’t get that a HCP simply doesn’t need to understand a condition to draw conclusions about its functional consequences. 
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,965 Disability Gamechanger
    Again, I understand your perspective. I'm passionate about raising awareness that Chiari 1 Malformation (CM1) can be associated with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS), but rarely talk about this, unless it has some relevance to the OP. I doubt an HCP would know about this, but rather 'just' EDS. Personally I raised awareness with every Dr I came across about this association.....I feel you have to work with them (in my case Neurosurgeons, Neurologists, Neuroradiologists, Rheumatologists, Geneticists, etc.)
    With my PIP f2f assessment, I didn't go into my CM1 problems, but explained the difficulties I faced with daily living activities, & mobility. I didn't expect them to know about my combination of disorders, as it's little understood. Hmm, well as you know about benefit law, I do understand a little about CM1 & EDS as researched this some time ago, & was asked to write a chapter about this association in the last EDS booklet. Would this help my PIP claim, no. Rather it's the problems with your function.
    People invariably say here that they have a certain disorder, but have little understanding about how this impairs their function & how to get this across to a HCP unfortuately.

  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,965 Disability Gamechanger
    @dolfrog - I'm unsure as to why you flagged my post, as I don't believe I misquoted you. One of our community rules is not to present opinion as fact, so please be mindful of this. If you don't like a person's replies, please add them to your ignore list, rather than flagging their posts.
    You know I have probably spent more time than anyone else on this forum reading medical info the better to understand your type of auditory processing disorder; offered help when I thought you needed this as you posted in a benefit's thread, etc. Your recent response therefore saddens me.
  • dolfrogdolfrog Member Posts: 440 Pioneering
    edited March 10
    chiarieds said:
    @dolfrog - I'm unsure as to why you flagged my post, as I don't believe I misquoted you. One of our community rules is not to present opinion as fact, so please be mindful of this. If you don't like a person's replies, please add them to your ignore list, rather than flagging their posts.
    You know I have probably spent more time than anyone else on this forum reading medical info the better to understand your type of auditory processing disorder; offered help when I thought you needed this as you posted in a benefit's thread, etc. Your recent response therefore saddens me.
    [Removed by moderator - we do not allow personal attacks]
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,977 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 10
    dolfrog said:
    chiarieds said:
    @dolfrog - I'm unsure as to why you flagged my post, as I don't believe I misquoted you. One of our community rules is not to present opinion as fact, so please be mindful of this. If you don't like a person's replies, please add them to your ignore list, rather than flagging their posts.
    You know I have probably spent more time than anyone else on this forum reading medical info the better to understand your type of auditory processing disorder; offered help when I thought you needed this as you posted in a benefit's thread, etc. Your recent response therefore saddens me.
    [Removed by moderator]
    @dolfrog as an observer of this discussion with no skin in the game I find your post perplexing and fairly offensive and have reported it. Name calling is not acceptable in any context and nor is aggression. Nothing I can see in this thread “promotes” disability discrimination. I fear you’re using it as a proxy for “someone disagrees with me”. Discrimination would involve denial of goods or services. What are you losing here? It’s not clear. 

    Accusing someone of promoting discrimination is a serious accusation which you’d need to back up in much the same way I presume you have taken EA 10 cases against the DWP or HCPs given that it’s an accusation you’re also levelling against them alongside “corruption”, which I presume you will have reported to the police. Making public accusations is cheap and very easy to do. They are nothing but hollow words if not followed with action. I’d be interested to know the outcomes of the specific cases you’ve taken against DWP for discrimination as obviously that would benefit lots of people here. 

    Finally I’d observe that posters on here don’t have to “demonstrate” anything as regards their understanding. All of us have impairments off some kind. Tolerance might be the better quality to bring to the table!

This discussion has been closed.