Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Terminated assessment experience

allergic2idiotsallergic2idiots Member Posts: 13 Connected
Can I be forgiven for thinking that in order to be employed to conduct asssessments for ESA & PIP you are required to have an exceptional ability for what can only be described as blatant, bare-faced lies?

Replies

  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing Team, Community Team Posts: 7,934 Scope community team
    Hello @allergic2idiots and welcome to our little community. :smile:
    Would it be safe to assume you've recently had a bad assessment experience? If so, will you be appealing?
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    If you have a few minutes to spare, we'd appreciate your feedback on our online community.
  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 7,236 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @allergic2idiots Welcome to the community its great to have you on board.

    From your post I gather you have had a bad experience at the hands of an assessor like so many others. However they are not all bad . I have had both good and bad, but most people don't come onto a forum like this to tell us about positive outcomes.
    If you need any guidance to appeal please let us know
  • chiariedschiarieds Community champion Posts: 6,895 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @allergic2idiots - Welcome to the community from me too. I'm the same as Jane; I had a bad one, whom I was told hadn't completed all of the assessment, then had a good one 2 weeks later. It wasn't much fun having 2 assessments instead of just one however. How are you doing? :)
  • steve51steve51 Community champion Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @allergic2idiots

    Good Afternoon & Welcome it’s great to meet you today.

    I am one off the Community Champion’s here at Scope.

    Sorry but I assume that you have experienced a bad Benefit Appointment??

    Do you want to talk about it???

    Or is there any info/support that I offer you????

    @steve51
  • AilsAils Community champion Posts: 2,268 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @allergic2idiots and welcome to the Community.  How are you today?  It's nice to meet you and have you on board!  I'm sorry if you have had a bad experience with a DWP assessment.  Unfortunately, many of our members have experienced the same thing which is a real shame, but as others have said, you do get good assessments too, but these are hardly ever highlighted.  There is some very good information on benefits on the site if you would like to have a look and it may help you if you decide to appeal.  We are here also if you need any advice/information too so please let us know if we can help you at any time.  All the best.  :smile:
    Winner of the Scope New Volunteer Award 2019.   :)
  • allergic2idiotsallergic2idiots Member Posts: 13 Connected
    I attended for ESA assessment in February. RN  commented that my pain cant be as bad as all that as I only take paracetamol and occasionally co-codamol. I have rheumatoid & osteo arthritis, polymyalgia, Sjogrens* syndrome. I knew that DWP had issued guidelines about that point, in addition to which G.P.s had been told not to prescribe opioids as there were growing concerns about the numbers of patients who developed dependancies on strong pain-killers. Assessor did not care to have these things pointed out to him, but I believe I was tactful. He appeared not to be at all well-informed about my treatments etc. I asked him again to confirm that he was a RN. He got up from the desk, walked over to the corner of the room, opened the door and told me that he was terminating the assessment. I remained seated and he repeated that he was terminating the assessment. I made no comment, simply got up and left. I could not open the heavy fire-door and he stood and watched me struggle. I had to ask him to open the door. He later denied that.I invoked the formal complaints procedure. He claimed that I refused to answer his questions - he didn*t ask me any. He further claimed that he explained the reasons why he terminated the assessment. Not true - had he done so I would have challenged them. He further claimed that he waited with me in the waiting-room until my companion came to meet me. Not true. The Leeds-based complaints dept further claimed that the Receptionists (I only saw one! ) observed that I did not appear to be distressed, upon my arrival at the Centre or upon leaving. I wasn*t in the least distressed and at no time to claimed to have been so. Furthermore, the Receptionist did not look at me, or my I.D., so in the absence of any eye-contact I was curious to learn by what means did the Receptionist form the view as to my distress or lack of same. No-one is at all surprised at my experience and I am now referring the complaint to the I.C.E., for what it*s worth. This man must have put on his C.V. that he was a proficient liar. These jobs are very well paid. I am referring the case to the Nursing & Midwifery Council.   





  • MsCuriosityMsCuriosity Member Posts: 11 Connected
    @allergic2idiots

    Hi there

    Oh, another satisfied customer from the PIP assessment I assume lol. What they are really good at is causing annoyance, anxiety and stress.

    Don't take it personal they are designed to reject everyone. Don't give up though. Please, please. please keep fighting. The more we challenge, the more we change. The only justice where PIP is concerned is in the Tribunal. You will get there. You will.
  • allergic2idiotsallergic2idiots Member Posts: 13 Connected
    I think I could be forgiven for finding it so easy to believe that, when they apply for these jobs, the include on their C.V.s " proficient, pathological liar ". Channel 4 found that the vast majority of M.R.apps are submitted owing to claims that HCP lied in report. Exposed so very clearly by Select Committee.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    If someone told me they were terminating my assessment but declining to tell me why I’m struggling to think of a reason why I’d leave. If a bus driver stopped in the middle uf nowhere and told you you’d got to get off without explanation would you do so?
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 2,866 Disability Gamechanger
    I think that sometimes we have to take a step back and look at what happens in the round, yes there are some very bad examples of assessments but keep in mind that the majority have a good experience its the bad ones we read about all across the internet. People very often forget that for PIP its not about the illness/condition but about how you are affected on a day to day basis, for ESA its all about your ability/fitness for work (or not).
    @allergic2idiots I do hope your complaint gets you somewhere, but I have to say I would be doubtful as they rarely (rightly or wrongly) do.
  • allergic2idiotsallergic2idiots Member Posts: 13 Connected
    Nurse should have told the truth, that was all I required of him. It could have been handled discreetly. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    The whole misinterpretation of meds thing has been dealt with recently in case law. Sadly not unusual. Still not getting the whole leaving after being asked to leave but though. 
  • allergic2idiotsallergic2idiots Member Posts: 13 Connected
    He didn*t ask me to leave exactly. He got up, walked over to door, held it open and simply said he was terminating the assessment..Hopelessly incompetent, infantile, spineless & consummate liar.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    So, again, why leave? Why move at all if you’re but sure what’s going down? 

    I’m not having a go. My point is that in terms of credibility most people at that point would have asked some very simple questions as to what the heck was going on before moving an inch. If you didn’t do that then any complaint simply isn’t going to be taken seriously. You can’t legally prove an accusation regarding lying unless you have a recording. At best you could say the report was factually inaccurate but of you just got up and left cos they said so then you’re immediately raising questions about your actions which make it harder to credibly challenge their actions. 

    Some complaints are very successful and can indeed result in either the assessment being redone or a recommendation of different points but it’s hard to see why your complaint would succeed.
  • alieshiaalieshia Community champion Posts: 73 Courageous
    I am wondering if there is CCTV available of you trying to open the door? You only need to disprove one comment to cast doubt on the rest. 

    I personally wouldn’t have left the building without making a complaint at reception but it’s very easy to say what you would or wouldn’t do in hindsight. In the moment it’s very stressful and I can understand just walking out.

  • allergic2idiotsallergic2idiots Member Posts: 13 Connected
    I felt that a dignified departure would be more appropriate. I suffered no financial loss. We do have incontrovertible evidence that Nurse lied in one area, which means that the veracity of his response is, at the very least, questionable.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    I suspect you're going nowhere fast here. ICE are there to look at DWP related issues not HCP and only to look at matters worthy of judicial review e.g. maladministration. Unfortunately, ICE are in what might be politely described as a bit of a mess so the chances of anything beyond an offer of £50 to go away are pretty negligible. On previous form they'll do well to locate your complaint after a few months. I would say ICE are not relevant here unless you were subject to delay or maladministration on the DWP side. 

    As regards the Nursing and Midwifery Council. They have been widely criticised for their alleged white washing of complaints on this and other major issues to such an extent that there have been calls for their abolition. That's not a reason to not complain in itself but a complaint in which you start by unquestioningly leaving a room because you were asked to without explanation and then suffered no financial loss or distress isn't going to be top of anyone's compelling cases which ought to clearly win list. 
  • allergic2idiotsallergic2idiots Member Posts: 13 Connected
    The problem I have is the issue of Nurse claiming that I refused to answer his questions. He didn*t put any questions to me. Went on to lie that he had explained reasons why he terminated assessment. He did not. I made statement to Law Centre following day. I was asked what * form of words * were used. No form of words used at all.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing Team, Community Team Posts: 7,934 Scope community team
    If someone told me they were terminating my assessment but declining to tell me why I’m struggling to think of a reason why I’d leave. If a bus driver stopped in the middle uf nowhere and told you you’d got to get off without explanation would you do so?
    I just wanted to jump in here without my Scope hat on and say I know many people that would. I don't know about @allergic2idiots but I know for certain my partner would (and has) done similar. She would leave without question. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to stand up for themselves and some are compliant to their own detriment. My partner would never question being given the wrong change, or being charged extra and she definitely wouldn't kick up a fuss or have the confidence to question if someone indicated she should leave.

    Best of luck with the complaint @allergic2idiots
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    If you have a few minutes to spare, we'd appreciate your feedback on our online community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    I agree @Adrian_Scope we all know people who would do that. My point was more that a scenario where there's no financial loss; no distress and not a question asked is never going to make for a successful complaint on any front. 

  • allergic2idiotsallergic2idiots Member Posts: 13 Connected
    They are supposed to tell the truth! Had he done so, he would have been compelled to *fess-up and admit he did not ask me any questions. And, no, he did not offer any explanation for terminating assessment. But there is rather more disclosure of which must wait a little. I was more knowledgeable & better informed. However diplomatic I was, he threw his teddy out of the pram!
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,310 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 2020
    I hear what you're saying but in a case where you've financially lost nothing; admit you weren't distressed or harmed then pursuing a complaint on 2 fronts is really just exhausting yourself to no great purpose. I'm a great complainer but there has to be a focus. Indeed I am allowed to say as of now that I have recently won an undisclosed sum off an unnamed bus company for what I consider a breach of EA 10. Not my only success in the past 18 months. The difference though is that the thing they did had real consequences for me. 

    I've no doubt I can say nothing to make you pause here but a point of principle needs to have something solid attached to it. 

    He may not be factually accurate in his recall; may indeed have not be truthful at all; absolutely ought to have offered an explanation for termination (although he's not obliged and may not do so if he thought it obvious e.g. if you swore; were perceived as threatening; threatened to terminate it yourself and many other circumstances) but none of that is relevant if the outcome is that you got your correct entitlement and weren't harmed nor distressed. 

    The danger is that you get labelled a vexatious litigant. In the long term that can do you more harm than anything you possibly appear able to gain here. 

    Your obtuse reference to "rather more disclosure" worries me greatly. 

    If you're giving your version of events on a public forum then do so. There's nothing I know of which would hold you back legally at this point if all you're doing is complaining to ICE and the N&MC. It allows others to infer, rightly or wrongly, that you're not being entirely straight with us. In what already looks like a rather strange and obtuse complaint I'm not sure that's your best move. You already have a user name and an original post at the top of this thread which infers a confrontational approach. Nowt wrong with that of course in isolation. However, taken in the round I'm afraid I'm not taking this at face value at all. 
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