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Court appeal for Pip this week.... Help please

lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
I am the Appointee for my son and the phone call from the court is Thursday. Has anyone been through this ordeal and please give me some pointers on the questions asked etc. Really worried that I don’t fumble with the horrendous pile of paperwork I have on my dining table with post it notes on everything. The assessment he had was total lies and have detailed each section with what really happened but when it went to resolution they still didn’t award him the points he is entitled to. That is why we went to appeal . 

Replies

  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,145 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi I haven't been through a PIP appeal but have a WCA appeal which though different follows the same process. However mine was in person, so not too familiar with phone tribunals.

    Try not to panic not many MR are successful but there is a higher rate of success at appeal.

    Try not to focus on the lies but give clear examples of how you son is on a daily basis when trying to do the task and where possible give examples of what happened when he tried to do them.

    Highlight the points you want to get across and tock them off as you do, I also prepared a closing statement as they will ask if there is anything you want to add at thee end.

    Good luck and let us know how you get on
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
    Thank you janer 1967 , it’s things like.. he lives in a bungalow but never mentioned he had to buy a bungalow because he can’t use stairs!  He dives to see friends , he hasn’t got a car! We have always provided transport for him. His dad takes him round his appointments for work. His dad does the 210 mile round trip to collect his daughter every other weekend,
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,145 Disability Gamechanger
    Some valid points but again dont do the he said this and it isnt true just tell the reality and if not covered by the questions they ask add it at end.

    You can mention he had to buy bungalow but more relevant is why he cant use stairs eg in my case I cant do stairs as I have 1 leg and could shuffle up on my bum but this isnt safe 
    That is the type of example to give 
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
    Oh thanks, sorry if I sounded so blunt, I just get so upset when I see how much pain he is in. the replacement  ankle hasn't worked and he has asked his doctor for a second opinion after he originally had it fused this didn’t work and when they did the replacement couldn’t get the plate out that was put in when he had it fused . He limps so badly he has to resort to his crutches. He has had loads of pain relief tablets that do not touch the removal of the pain. He is now under pain management and has had injections in the back of his knee to try and block the pain but it only lasts for a couple of weeks. It is now 17 years after his accident and 32 visits to hospital.
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,145 Disability Gamechanger
    It's ok you were not blunt and I understand how you must feel seeing him in pain.

    I understand the frustration with fighting for everything and hopefully this will end for you 

    He has your support and that is the best thing for him PIP award may make things better financially but not take away his pain 
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
    Thanks janer 67. I do understand what you mean. I suppose I am getting so frustrated because he has had to move in with us as I do his cooking but as my husband is classed as vulnerable, just had a kidney out because of cancer after three heart attacks and stent fitted, so we have had to decide our bungalow in two because my son can’t be with his dad, I have to cook his meals and leave them outside of his door. His friend who is  because of the virus manages to pick him up at the gate to take him to work three days a week . His dad normally drives him but hasn’t obviously been out for 13 weeks. It’s not so much the financial bit as we help him out but we can’t afford to buy him a car that has paddles on the steering wheel . If he had this form of transport he could take himself to work . He has a blue badge which he was granted so can pull up at appointments and use his crutches to walk in. His dad is now 72 and is waiting for more scans etc , we just both want our son to have his personal independence back.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,966 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @lulu1949 unfortunately no-one can predict the questions you’ll be asked as every panel is different and the questions relate to your claim, which won’t look like anyone else case.

    Clerk will ring you in advance to set you up online. One panel member will likely look at daily living whilst another looks at mobility. It’s a good idea to never talk across them. Make notes if there’s something you want to come back on and do so at the end. Don’t be afraid to speak your mind. Tribunals don’t mind that at all and this is your big chance to do so. 76% chance of success so go for it.

    The one thing to not do is focus on the HCP report. Highlight maybe 2 of their most obvious irrefutable catastrophic conclusions and leave it at that. In part that’s because you’re kicking at an open door with most panels. They know how bad the reports are. In part it’s because one if the members is a medical professional. Doesn’t play well with some of them if you’re slagging one of their own. 

    Most importantly it’s because giving less credibility to the HCP case is rarely enough to get you PIP. Identify what points you expect to score and why. Write down examples to remember of what happened last time you attempted each activity and use them on the day. Allow 90 minutes to 2 hours for the hearing so have a brew and food nearby as well as a working pen and paper.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
    Thank you so much Mikehughescq. I think what I am worried about is that I seem to have mounds and mounds of paperwork this started last July and after going to appeal I have sent 6 letters to be added to the bundle because of changes in Darren.it was me who originally told my son he needed to claim he has never ever claimed anything before and I explained that his disability needed reporting to the DWP. When I read the forms it was obvious that he had marked himself higher than what he could actually achieve. I was not too worried because I thought when he went on the assessment they would be able to see the difficulties he was having. I couldn’t believe the HCP report, it was as if it was about someone else. I did dissect each paragraph and put a paragraph in of what actually happened. The court will I presume have read all this so yes I agree with you not to go on and on. Two ears one mouth I was always taught in my selling career so I will have to do more listening and comment when asked a question I suppose. As I am my son’s Appointee to I let Darren answer the questions and only step in when I think he is having difficulty.
    the one thing I do worry about is getting upset. When I speak about my son’s injury and the effects it’s had on his life. Ending his career which he loved so much leading to not earning as much leading to a divorce and having a 200 mile trip every fortnight to collect his daughter for the weekend. His Dad has always driven him but the virus has changed all that too.
    i so appreciate your time in answering me thank you x
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,966 Disability Gamechanger
    Whatever you do, and this will sound strange, don’t step in when he struggles. Let him struggle; make a note of the issue and come back on it at the end. Tribunals will never tolerate interruptions and you will get your moment at the end. I know this will be hard but it’s absolutely the best thing to do. They won’t have any clue as to the extent to which he struggles if hot verbalise it for him. Not stepping in let’s them see the issue in full and, if they don’t get it, you get your chance at the end to fix it.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
    Thank you so much you are really helping me, I would have done everything wrong! It’s so hard because my son is finding it so hard to accept his disability so doesn’t like talking about it! If he had accepted it he would have filled his forms in correctly at the start, I can’t be mad with him , I just thought that when they saw him at the assessment he would have been o.k. She put he was very friendly and smiley BUT he does that laugh and smile when he is nervous. 
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
    Sorry I sorry I forgot to put your name on my last post Mikehighescq can I just ask one more question, if my son freezes and there is just long silence do I wait till they say something ?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,966 Disability Gamechanger
    No need to apologise @lulu1949 I got an email notification anyway. 

    Yes, if he freezes let the tribunal take the lead. If they address him and he ceases to respond, let that happen. Let them see the reality and then step in at the end to give your version of what took place. I totally appreciate this will feel counter intuitive and is a big ask but the moment you speak without being asked to it’s almost guaranteed that a panel member will step in to stop you and you’ll be portrayed as part of the problem; an enabling over-protective mother and similar things I’ve no doubt you’ve heard implied elsewhere. It won’t be said (or at least it ought not to be) but it will be the perception. 

    What I would do, and I know you probably don’t need me to say this, is explain this to your son in advance. 

    Nothing is written in stone here of course and so you will also need to make a judgement. If the panel bang away at silence for 5 minutes rather than say a minute you may feel it’s cruel to not step in. It’s your call not mine but the above approach is one to consider seriously to give his case the best chance of success. 

    Don’t forget they may ask you to set the scene at the outset and if they do then why not spell all this out to them. Explain that he will freeze. Explain that you will try and resist etc. The hearing is recorded so it’s undeniable.
  • lulu1949lulu1949 Member Posts: 62 Courageous
    Ok thanks so much, will definitely bite my tongue. I have explained to my son he may have to take the lead of which he is very worried. I have tried to make him relax about it. He is shielding with us at the moment because of his dad so there is plenty of time to talk before Thursday. If everything goes terribly wrong I have told him that I will just put a new application in. After sorting all the paperwork out and putting all in order I have noticed that the assessor omitted to mention or ask what a typical  day was like for him, but she put things in like he drives an automatic car yet he doesn’t own a car.i sent an extra letter to the court showing a diary of a typical two days for him.  Think that was the main problem there were no open questions. Now I have done so much research and your help thank you I think I would step in at the next assessment, oops that’s the protective mother again. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,966 Disability Gamechanger
    If everything “goes terribly wrong” then putting a new claim in is likely the worst thing you could do. Doing the same thing again and again will usually bring the same outcome and multiple claims eventually mandate it even less likely he’ll qualify. If you lose the appeal you have a further right of appeal and you should use it. 
  • Lou67Lou67 Member Posts: 865 Pioneering
    @lulu1949. Morning Lulu I just want to say wish you and your son well for today, I really hope it’s not as stressful as you think, let’s no how it goes take care x
  • katho31katho31 Posts: 694 Member
    morning Lou and everyone, @lulu1949 best wishes for you and your son today, will be in our thoughts and prayers x how are you Lou?  :) we are good, sooo hot but happy after yesterdays result x
  • Lulu_1949Lulu_1949 Member Posts: 225 Pioneering
    Hi Katho31 , Lou67, Mikehighescq, and Janer67.
    sorry I couldn’t get on the site so I have had to re-register. Just need to let you all know after first saying a big thank you to all of you for wishing me well. It’s done!!!! Lasted an hour. Wasn’t really as bad as I thought. Felt so sick when I got up. They were really nice but don’t know what the results are for two days so have to wait for that brown envelope. It lasted an hour. They seemed to know everything I had written . Thank you all so much will keep you updated , Ursula x
  • Lou67Lou67 Member Posts: 865 Pioneering
    Aww so glad it wasn’t as bad as you expected, fingers crossed you’ll get a good result, hopefully you’ll get a decent sleep tonight, x
  • Lulu_1949Lulu_1949 Member Posts: 225 Pioneering
    Thanks so much, yes I will , cleared the dining room table put everything in a drawer out of site, can’t do any moe now. It will be a year in waiting. X
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,925

    Scope community team

    Hi @Lulu_1949. Fingers crossed you hear soon with some good news. I'm glad the tribunal wasn't as bad as you had anticipated. Let us know when you get your results. 
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  • Lulu_1949Lulu_1949 Member Posts: 225 Pioneering
    Hi @ Adrian_Scope, thanks I will, dreading the envelope coming! X
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Best of luck @Lulu_1949
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  • Lulu_1949Lulu_1949 Member Posts: 225 Pioneering
    @Chloe_Scope, @Adrian_Scope ,thanks luvs he received it day after tribunal he got standard for both🤗 x
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,925

    Scope community team

    Brilliant news @Lulu_1949, great news! Very  pleased for you both. :)
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  • Lulu_1949Lulu_1949 Member Posts: 225 Pioneering
    Thank you👍Xx
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Amazing @Lulu_1949!! :)
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  • givingupgivingup Member Posts: 148 Pioneering
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