tribunal help — Scope | Disability forum
Find out how to let us know if you're concerned about another member's safety.

tribunal help

mark1983
mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
edited May 2021 in PIP, DLA, and AA
hi i have been reading a few people journeys on here and now decide for advise for my wife who i have cared for 15 years shes was on the old system for 10 years high on both parts for life but got letter 5 years ago to move pip got both high on mobility and care someone reported her 2018 and in july 2019 we had fraud squad follow us for 3 weeks out of the 3 weeks they seen us 9 days my wife got a letter to attend a interview what evidence they are using against her is getting in and out of a mobility car , standing on a kerb , pushing a small trolly instead of using her stick and crossing a road with out a stick once and they contacted mobility to see what cars she has had an he said in the interview that she drive really good for being on mobility . so the report come bk in nov 2019 so say she score 0 points on everything and pip wanted 31k money bk for 5 years they send it to the cps the case got dropped no further action the problems my wife has is rheumatoid arthritis dybetes  she cant dress shower or cook with out my help some days bed bound with flairs up we did a MR come bk same 0 points so we went to CAB in feb 2020 showed them all the reports he helped us start a tribunal process and said he would come to the trbunal for support and help us with the appeal for 31k they dropped the case in april 2020 and CAB said if they drop the money case then it will help in the tribunral we have kept all papers and dr speclist letter and we have sent in photos on all the aids my wife uses walk in shower sticks perching stool etc so what i am asking is anything else i can do and will the tribunal be asking diff qwestions compares to someone that had to go to a tribunral with a fresh claim sorry being soo long and no date for tribunal 
«1345

Comments

  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    she did apply again with a fresh claim for pip in january 2020 while waiting for appeal she got dianosed with fibromyalgia, incondinence , rainards in 2019 as well as her other problem preview she didnt have a home visit with covid 19 she scored 0 everything they said nothng has changed since when she first applyed for pip 5 years ago so we didnt do a appeal as we already had 1 going

  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 15,233 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi and welcome to the community, what an ordeal you and your wife have been through.

    We have lots of advice on PIP tribunals and also lots of members experience too in the PIP section

    The main focus should be giving examples of how your wife is affected against the descriptors, what happens when she tries to do the task, can she do it of not why not, can it be done safely and repeatedly, does she need help or use aids to do the tasks.

    They will only look at her condition at the time she was assessed and no worsening of condition since then as that is the decision she is appealing.

    Appearing in person or on the phone will also be advisable

    A tribunal is looking at the whole claim with fresh eyes from an independent panel

    Have a look around and hope you get some more tips
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    thank you @janer1967 its been a long hard worrying time still don't understand is if the case has been closed and know further action to be taken then why my wife hasn't got her pip back and would it help my wife case with the tribunal with the letter stating case closed as evidence .  i no not worth asking about how long waiting times are by the forum lol
     
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 15,233 Disability Gamechanger
    She hasn't got PIP back as last she doesn't have any award in place assessments all gave 0 points 
    The case that was closed is just in relation to the money they have not tried to take back 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    edited August 2020
    Hmm, did you see any physical evidence that the case actually went to CPS or was it DWP referring it upwards to look at the possibility of prosecution, which is not the same thing at all.
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    Sorry @mikehughescq kinda not sure what mean by physical evidence the letter my wife got bk was cps has investigated The evidence and know further action taken the case has been closed it does have the dwp on the letter
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    When dwp were send letters asking for a payment plan I told my wife To ring them and say we are appealing it I thought was if she excepted that payment plan then she’s excepting that she guilty of the evidence so we went to cab nxt day 1 of my question was to cab if the case drops for the money will that help tribunal he said yes there trying to claim 5 years worth of money bk with 9 days out 3 weeks of evidence cab said they don’t have 5 years of evidence this why I wonder will this letter help with my wife tribunal case 
  • pierce202
    pierce202 Member Posts: 7 Listener
    that is terrible what u have been through,im reaplying for my sons renewal and am worrrying as last time it took us a yr of court 2 tribunals which we won but the stress was horendous as we were in the middle of diagnosis and getting plans in place at the same time, now 3 yrs on he is on meds for adhd and meletonin at nite also has now ehcp plan and risk assesment reports and therapys reports ect been excluded twice so has behavior reports but the form is so intense and not clear on some parts 
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    @pierce202 I 100% agree the stress and worry never felt like before finding scope and reading people story’s and advise they give has helped so much when my wife went from the old system to pip she got awarded it for 10 years the accessor who come to the house could see the pain and struggle she was in
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    mark1983 said:
    Sorry @mikehughescq kinda not sure what mean by physical evidence the letter my wife got bk was cps has investigated The evidence and know further action taken the case has been closed it does have the dwp on the letter
    What I’m getting at is did you ever have any direct contact with CPS e.g. phone calls or letters from them or was it just DWP telling you CPS weren’t pursuing it?
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    Hi @mikehughescq it was dwp pursuing it and the letter we got bk to say the case was closed is from dwp has there stamp on top right of letter stating in capital letters we have closed are investigation then it says on 21 August 2019 you were interviewed under caution about a failure to declare a change in circumstances having considered the i information we have decided to close out investigations no further action will be taken an then further yours sincerely the name 
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    So it will be no we have had no contact from cps letters or phone calls
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    edited August 2020
    Okay, so the reason I was asking that question is that you’ve been duped by DWP here. It’s not uncommon and I’ve no hesitation in calling it intimidation as that’s what it is. In essence someone reports your wife; DWP video her and start an investigation. They suggest there’s a possibility of fraud and thus they will refer it upwards. In some cases they suggest that if you end the claim and agree to pay the money back with an administrative penalty added to it then the matter will go no further. 

    In most cases the matter will never go any further. It’s just an empty threat to get you to pay up. You’ll note that the CPS were never involved. If the CPS were involved you would know about it immediately; would have correspondence to say so and would be formally interviewed under caution by more people than the DWP. 

    In your case it sounds like they reviewed the evidence; decided there was enough in the video evidence to end the award without waiting for you to do so and then... well you tell me. My guess is that as above they said that the fraud threat would go away if you would just accept paying back the overpayment and an admin penalty. 

    You have done absolutely the right thing my going to Citizens Advice and I’m glad they’re challenging this for you. However, this is the sort of case which needs a representative who will turn up on the day of the hearing and actually represent on the legal argument face to face rather than just put something in writing in advance and leave you to it so you need to make sure that your rep will do this and, if not, insist they obtain someone who can. 

    To answer your original question, winning your overpayment appeal ought not to have any influence over whether your wife is now entitled to PIP but you need the o/p appeal to be decided before your new claim appeal. This is because if you win the overpayment appeal then of course the PIP overpayment will not be recoverable and the decision to end PIP will have been incorrect. If that PIP award was reinstated then the question then arises as to how long that original award was for. Would it have stopped by now? Lots of things to be sorted but essentially, without telling your CA rep what do, I would want to be reassured that they had requested a direction from a HMCTS judge that the second appeal cannot be heard before the first. 

    The most likely outcome of that of course is that they will hear them together on the same day. Overpayment first. New claim second. That’s fine but you need to be sure that it does not happen the other way round.
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    @mikehughescq ty mike u are a legend with help and information U give and when we went to the cab he ticked the box for a face to face for tribunal and said he wants to attend the tribunal with us as support/help
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    Excellent. Just make sure the overpayment one comes before the entitlement one. 
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    @mikehughescq to do that does my wife have to wait for a tribunal date and then ring them to say she wants the overpayment first or can she write  a letter to them to tribunal 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    No, that needs to be done by your rep now if it hasn’t already happened. 
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    @mikehughescq thank you i know the dwp had till the 27 march to hand in there evidence to the tribunal but never heard anything bk my wife gets txts on phone with updates the only txt she had is to say they got the info that we want a tribunal that we filled in with cab
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    and letter thu post to say if we want to add more evidence with code number for the case

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    Up to your rep to be proactive and up to you to work with your rep. Really they should have answers to all your questions. The 27th of March date was just the time by which DWP have to put together an appeal bundle. There’s no sanction if they don’t and sometimes that extra delay can be handy in terms of piecing together a case. 

    However, a couple of things to note. The burden of proof on an overpayment case fails on DWP. They’re the party who changed the PIP award and decided there was a recoverable overpayment so they’re the party who needs to prove the case i.e. they need to show its recoverable rather than you having to show it’s not. That matters because if there are still no appeal papers for the overpayment appeal your rep can ask for DWP to be directed to produce them by date x and then, if they don’t, the appeal can be directed to go ahead without the bundle. Very hard for DWP to prove recoverability if there is no evidence in front of the tribunal!

Brightness

Complete our feedback form and tell us how we can make the community better.

Do you need advice on your energy costs?


Scope’s Disability Energy Support service is open to any disabled household in England or Wales in which one or more disabled people live. You can get free advice from an expert adviser on managing energy debt, switching tariffs, contacting your supplier and more. Find out more information by visiting our
Disability Energy Support webpage.