Is sleep Apnoea a disability?

janer1967

Hi and welcome to the community, I must comment and say you wont get any better benefit advise than you have been given by Poppy she is a true expert in this field

I would maybe get advice from CAB or Welfare rights if you think this is required and also doing the benefits checker will confirm the advice already given

I hope you manage to get the required information for your friend

poppy123456

@janer1967 thank you for those kind words!

RSISolutions

The question is about if the person was to satisfy all the other criteria  eg. financial, employment status, living status etc,  putting all that to aside for a minute, focusing on the disability only, has anyone heard of, or know of anyone who has had ESA or the disabiity part of UC because of Aponea?

poppy123456

No one can answer that question because it totally depends on the individual person and how their conditions affect their ability to do any type of work because that's what the work capability assessment is all about. It's the work they can do and not the work they can't do.

chiarieds

Hi @RSISolutions - playing Devil's advocate here, I must note that the symptoms of sleep apnoea that you mention are identical with these on the NHS website: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Sleep-apnoea/

This surprised me somewhat, as I have sleep apnoea, but don't need to use a CPAP machine. My initial thought was to ask what type of sleep apnoea this person you know has, as either the machine might not be set correctly for them, or perhaps, if overweight, they should look into this.

My next door neighbour but one uses a CPAP machine nightly following a severe bout of pneumomia & 6 weeks in an induced coma some 2-3 years ago. After a period of recuperation, he is back in full time employment.

As far as headaches go, there can be many & varied reasons for this; often the simplest being a person isn't hydrated sufficiently. So, this person's comments about how sleep apnoea makes them feel is a bit of a 'red flag' to me.

As Poppy has been at pains to say, about any problem, no two people may be affected the same. With a somewhat medical background, I agree totally with this. I would be wary about what this person is saying.

As far as benefits go, you have had Poppy's input. I don't have a fraction of her knowledge, but don't doubt it from even the little I know.

You have mentioned Scope's benefit advisors, & I would be happy to ask this online community's senior advisors about this should you wish. Please say.

poppy123456

Thanks @chiarieds. The reason i didn't ask any of scope benefits advisers for help here is because i didn't think it was needed, given the level of my knowledge.

Of course if @RSISolutions would like further advice then it's not a problem. Although, as i have pointed out several times across 2 threads here that a full benefits check from their local advice centre is advised. What does concern me here is what has this person been living off for 6 months, if they're not claiming any benefits.

chiarieds

@poppy123456 - there's no reason to ask for further advice other than the OP wasn't happy with the responses given, & wanted to end any conversation with you. I'm just asking if they want to have your sound opinion confirmed.

They did mention that the person in question has been claiming UC. However, my other concern is that the person in question has almost word perfect the symptoms mentioned on the NHS website about sleep apnoea. This in itself is a bit unusual.....people rarely present the same, & less likely with a clinical text book example. As I say, this is a 'red flag' to me that there's something questionable about this....

RSISolutions

@chiarieds Yes - the symptoms were copies from the NHS website, but they are legit. I havent spoke to my friend since starting this thread. Nor does my friend know about the thread. Nor did he think of his Apnoea as a disability. I am trying to help him.

Many people with disabilities, or impairments, dont think of them as disabled because they dont know about the 2010 Equality Act and the thought of themselves being disabled is a new thing to them. It takes time to get your head around it. Also we all know that getting advice from the unemployment office about what they are entitiled to is, in most cases, a waste of time. But I think it is a disability judging by what he says has been going on in his life. It is just as the NHS website says. 

There is nothing 'red flag' about this post. Just because I am describing his symptoms word perfect from NHS website. I came to this website for support, not for critisim. 

I think the reply from @woodbine which states 'Any condition that prevents you from leading a "full and normal" life is a disability' is a good one. My friend is definatley not leading a full and normal life. 

he has lost his job because of this condition and now is expected to spend 35 hours per week looking for work on UC. This cannot be right. He should have had reasonable adjustments at work. Flexible woring times, working from home, disability confidence training for his manager and colleagues in order to avoid reasonable adjustment envy etc. But he didnt know he was able to ask for reasonable adjustments. He didnt think of himself as disabled. He was too tired and stressed to find out. 

I would like to have the advice of the Scope advisors if it's possible please. 

poppy123456

No one is questioning whether or not it's a disability but i do think you're confusing that with what benefits this person maybe entitled to. As i advised yesterday, ESA and UC are not disability benefits, they are earnings replacement benefits. Although in this case it really doesn't matter what they are. Trying to give "3rd party advice" is never easy. I don't see anyone critising you.

I'll tag a member of admin for you. @Adrian_Scope I'm really not sure what else you can add here on top of my very detailed explaination and all the advice i've given but @RSISolutions has requested further advice. Thanks in advance.

poppy123456

RSISolutions said:

he has lost his job because of this condition and now is expected to spend 35 hours per week looking for work on UC. This cannot be right. He should have had reasonable adjustments at work. Flexible woring times, working from home, disability confidence training for his manager and colleagues in order to avoid reasonable adjustment envy etc. But he didnt know he was able to ask for reasonable adjustments. He didnt think of himself as disabled. He was too tired and stressed to find out. 

I would like to have the advice of the Scope advisors if it's possible please. 

I missed the part where you said that this person is already claiming UC. Although there were 2 different threads at one point and this did confuse me quite a lot, sometimes my brain doesn't work that well when hopping from one thread to another with similar questions.

If he hasn't sent in fit notes from his GP to start the limited capability for work process off then he needs to do this ASAP.

Claiming New style ESA as well as UC will not make him financially better off because it's deducted £1 for £1 from any UC entitlement. If he has paid the correct amount of NI contributions in the years i stated then yes he can claim it.

poppy123456

There's some information here about LCW for UC. https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-disability-universal-credit The process is the same as it was for ESA.

If this person needs further help and advice it maybe a good idea to ask them to join the forum so that they can ask any questions they have for theirself, rather than rely on 3rd party advice.

chiarieds

@RSISolutions -  I totally agree with @woodbine , in fact I often say that anything that dis-ables you is a disability. I was not in fact criticizing you, just wondering as your friend had 'word perfect' symptoms as per the NHS website, & I therefore didn't want you to be mislead; I didn't realize you were in fact describing his symptoms as per the NHS website instead, which again was a little confusing.

Anyway, I asked if you'd like a senior Scope advisor for help, but see that @poppy123456 has since directly asked, so hope this may help to reassure you about her sound advice.

Adrian_Scope

Hello @RSISolutions.

For New Style ESA (and indeed legacy versions of ESA and LCW/LCWRA on Universal Credit) it's important not to be too focused on whether something is classed as a disability or not. ESA isn't awarded on whether you are disabled, but whether you meet a certain set of criteria, in the same way the PIP is (although they have different criteria.)

Have you read through the criteria at all? To be placed into a group on ESA they have to score at least 15 points from these descriptors here: WRAG descriptors and to be placed into the support group they'll also need to meet one of these: Support group descriptors

I don't know how much your friend's sleep apnoea impacts them day-to-day but if you read through these it'll help you and your friend better understand the likelihood of being awarded ESA. If there's any of the descriptors you're unsure of please let us know and we can try and explain it a little better for you.

Has your friend discussed their work search commitments with UC and have they reported their condition under the health section?
UC are supposed to take into account a person's situation when setting commitments and if 35 hours a week is unreasonable they could ask them to be looked at. If their condition is impacting them to the extent that they're struggling with the work search, a fit note from their GP either signing them off of work or suggesting adjustments may help with this, but they really need to have that conversation with their work coach. 

RSISolutions

Thank you @Adrian_Scope. 

I understand the descriptors. I am claiming ESA myself.

I understand UC and ESA dont use the Equality Act's definition of disability but a set of criteria. 

Regarding the descriptors, as an example. the manual dexterity issue asks if you can press a keyboard key or mouse click. One might answer yes if you can do this once. But isnt the question actually asking - can you do this reliably, repeatedly, within a reasonable amount of time, without causing intolerable pain, without making your condition worse? So on having this extra information about the question, one might now answer no. 

Actually is there not another way of getting ESA? Regulation 29 of the ESA Regulations 2008. If you have some points, but not enough, if you were found capable of work, this would result in a substantial risk to your health.  ESA  would then be awarded. Is this still true?

Moving forwards into employment. I am guessing that my friend could ask for reasonable adjustments. Examples could be working less hours, working flexible hours, disability confidence training for him, his manager and his immediate colleagues in order to avoid any reasonable adjustment envy, any meeting that requires his prescence should be organised in the afternoon, working from home etc. Can't think of any more at the minute. Would these be reasonable?

poppy123456

Regulation 29 is WRAG or LCW for UC. Reg35 is Support Group or LCWRA for UC. New Style ESA is only paid for 1 year unless placed into the support group. 

There’s no extra money if placed into either the WRAG or LCW. Only Support Group or LCWRA pays extra money.

Regarding working there’s absolutely no reason at all why anyone can’t ask for reasonable adjustments to be made.